Environmentalism and the Green utopia: Does it make sense?

[West]

I found this thread on Twitter. Interesting argument. The argument seems to be that the emissions given off to produce one electric car battery are astronomical. While you may save on emissions through fuel, does it make sense to switch everything to electric?

[Michael Hardner]

I'm very interested in the topic but there's no way to research whether this is accurate without an information source cited.

[cougar]

45 minutes ago, West said:

I found this thread on Twitter. Interesting argument. The argument seems to be that the emissions given off to produce one electric car battery are astronomical. While you may save on emissions through fuel, does it make sense to switch everything to electric?

I would probably not put much trust in a person who misspells Tesla for "Telsa"  but in general, I also have my serious doubts that electric vehicles will save us from ourselves.

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, cougar said:

  I also have my serious doubts that electric vehicles will save us from ourselves.

In my view, we never adapted to the loss of religion.  We are like teenagers who have moved out into the moral world for the first time...

[West]

https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/features/largest-lithium-mining-companies/

 

Here's another interesting fact. Two of the three largest lithium mines in the world are in China. This supposedly "green" revolution could very well just be Chinese propaganda to establish themselves as a global superpower. 

With their human rights track record and substandard industry regulations, are we actually doing more damage than good?

[eyeball]

20 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

In my view, we never adapted to the loss of religion.  We are like teenagers who have moved out into the moral world for the first time...

Teenagers also raised by an abusive dysfunctional parent and there's much we still need to abandon and leave behind.  The only way forward is ahead of us.  The path to enlightenment is painful, always has been and probably always will - that's not our fault it just is what it is.  

[Michael Hardner]

35 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Teenagers also raised by an abusive dysfunctional parent and there's much we still need to abandon and leave behind.  The only way forward is ahead of us.  The path to enlightenment is painful, always has been and probably always will - that's not our fault it just is what it is.  

Well there's no turning back.  If you want the perfect model that proves it - look to scripture itself.

Adam bit the apple.  God never popped into the garden to tell him to spit it out.  

We bit the apple of agnostic, liberal, capitalistic, meaningless living.  We have to find a new model that puts it back together the way it was before religion existed IMO

[Moonbox]

2 hours ago, West said:

Here's another interesting fact. Two of the three largest lithium mines in the world are in China. This supposedly "green" revolution could very well just be Chinese propaganda to establish themselves as a global superpower. 

Not everything is a conspiracy, though I know you really want it to be. 

There are lots of alternatives to lithium-ion batteries, both older and newer tech coming online.  The idea that China's going to take over the word with their lithium reserves is really, really silly.  

[West]

3 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Not everything is a conspiracy, though I know you really want it to be. 

There are lots of alternatives to lithium-ion batteries, both older and newer tech coming online.  The idea that China's going to take over the word with their lithium reserves is really, really silly.  

China's desire for superpower status is out in the open. 

Russia was funding environmentalist propaganda to gain a greater market share. 

https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/599113-russia-used-soft-power-to-influence-eu-policies-and-anti-fossil/amp/

They aren't conspiracy theories lol

[cougar]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

The path to enlightenment is painful, always has been and probably always will - that's not our fault it just is what it is.  

My greatest fear is not everyone achieves enlightenment and for many that do, it comes way too late.

[cougar]

3 hours ago, West said:

With their human rights track record and substandard industry regulations, are we actually doing more damage than good?

Do you think more human rights and freedoms help the environment?  The environment is better without us - a country killing its people where the population is actually on the decrease can leave more environment intact, leave more trees, generate more oxygen.

In this regard, we are among the worst - our cities grow like mushrooms after rain often adding 30%+ in the matter of a just a few years.  EV's or not, this type of cancerous growth cannot continue forever.

[West]

10 minutes ago, cougar said:

Do you think more human rights and freedoms help the environment?  The environment is better without us - a country killing its people where the population is actually on the decrease can leave more environment intact, leave more trees, generate more oxygen.

In this regard, we are among the worst - our cities grow like mushrooms after rain often adding 30%+ in the matter of a just a few years.  EV's or not, this type of cancerous growth cannot continue forever.

Sound like that Club of Rome guy that said we need to widdle our population down to a billion 

[cougar]

25 minutes ago, West said:

Sound like that Club of Rome guy that said we need to widdle our population down to a billion 

Don't know what it sounds like or which guy or where.

The question is what DO YOU THINK ?

Edited April 18, 2022 by cougar

[West]

6 minutes ago, cougar said:

Don't know what it sounds like or which guy or where.

The question is what DO YOU THINK ?

I think much of the environmentalism crap is being pushed by some pretty sick people and we are being influenced by nations with interests that don't align with western values like China and Russia

Edited April 18, 2022 by West

[cougar]

56 minutes ago, West said:

1. I think much of the environmentalism crap is being pushed by some pretty sick people

2. and we are being influenced by nations with interests that don't align with western values like China and Russia

And I think your number 1.  has nothing to do with your number 2.   so why put them in one sentence?

Why would you be calling the environmental concerns "crap" ???  Did you study math at school?  What exactly did you study at school?

Before calling another person sick, you have to be damn sure you are not sick yourself.

[West]

15 minutes ago, cougar said:

And I think your number 1.  has nothing to do with your number 2.   so why put them in one sentence?

Why would you be calling the environmental concerns "crap" ???  Did you study math at school?  What exactly did you study at school?

Before calling another person sick, you have to be damn sure you are not sick yourself.

Everything is always a crisis to you guys eh

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, cougar said:

Do you think more human rights and freedoms help the environment?  The environment is better without us - a country killing its people where the population is actually on the decrease can leave more environment intact, leave more trees, generate more oxygen.

In this regard, we are among the worst - our cities grow like mushrooms after rain often adding 30%+ in the matter of a just a few years.  EV's or not, this type of cancerous growth cannot continue forever.

Enlightenment...what is it exactly?

Been watching you and Mikey wax away about morality, religion and enlightenment. But what is it to be "enlightened"? Is there a Gawd of sorts? Do the enlightened deify man? The planet? Do we do away completely with religion? Would that even be possible?

We humans are the pinnacle of rodent development. Rats were the first mammal with opposing thumbs. We instinctively congregate for a multitude of reasons. That will continue. EVs are NOT going to save the planet.

So...what is "enlightenment"?

[cougar]

2 hours ago, West said:

Everything is always a crisis to you guys eh

"you guys" is a cliche just like "sick people" and "environmental crap". 

You have to start thinking for yourself and if you find legitimate arguments going against your belief , you have to accept and recognize them.

Repeating what someone else posts on the internet or says in the media without trying to process it would just turn you into a loud parrot.

[West]

2 minutes ago, cougar said:

"you guys" is a cliche just like "sick people" and "environmental crap". 

You have to start thinking for yourself and if you find legitimate arguments going against your belief , you have to accept and recognize them.

Repeating what someone else posts on the internet or says in the media without trying to process it would just turn you into a loud parrot.

Huh? Who am I repeating?

[cougar]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

So...what is "enlightenment"?

Probably it means different things to different people.

It has nothing to do with religion for me at least.   I do not go to church, but at the same time most of what I consider bad practice and would try to avoid at all costs is called "sin" in the bible.

To me enlightenment is being able to see beyond materialism and beyond the supposedly good societal values.  Not all of them are good.  In fact most of what your are presented on a daily basis is falsehood or lies.

There are many, if not most, among us who are trapped in a world that id dragging them along and is shaping their thoughts and behavior to suit its corrupt needs.

Many just would not think.  They know they need money.  Then they work for the money.  Then they work to do better than the neighbor and to have a bigger house or a bigger truck. And for many lives go by in a circle even when they can live outside the system and create their own worlds.

[cougar]

11 minutes ago, West said:

Huh? Who am I repeating?

explain what is "sick people" and "environmental crap"

[West]

11 minutes ago, cougar said:

explain what is "sick people" and "environmental crap"

Well China as an example implemented a one child policy because they believe the world is overpopulated. 

Environmental crap like carbon tax

[cougar]

6 minutes ago, West said:

Well China as an example implemented a one child policy because they believe the world is overpopulated. 

Environmental crap like carbon tax

The carbon tax is crap. I cannot agree more with that.

China might have had a one child policy, but I do not think this is the case now.  It would have been an excellent policy to be adopted by all countries at the same time - particularly those with growing populations.

They cannot do it though, because they have based the system on a large group of young people working and producing goods and services as well as paying taxes to support a smaller group of older people who only consume.   With a one child policy, before long you will have the opposite scenario.

I still think, you meant that people with strong environmental values who want to see a greener planet with more trees and wildlife are "sick people". Hope not.

 

[West]

12 minutes ago, cougar said:

I still think, you meant that people with strong environmental values who want to see a greener planet with more trees and wildlife are "sick people". Hope not.

 

Not in the context of my post where I spoke of the Club of Rome's view that the world needs to depopulate. 

Though there are some looney ideas out there among environmentalists. Much like the covid cult

[Nationalist]

7 hours ago, cougar said:

Probably it means different things to different people.

It has nothing to do with religion for me at least.   I do not go to church, but at the same time most of what I consider bad practice and would try to avoid at all costs is called "sin" in the bible.

To me enlightenment is being able to see beyond materialism and beyond the supposedly good societal values.  Not all of them are good.  In fact most of what your are presented on a daily basis is falsehood or lies.

There are many, if not most, among us who are trapped in a world that id dragging them along and is shaping their thoughts and behavior to suit its corrupt needs.

Many just would not think.  They know they need money.  Then they work for the money.  Then they work to do better than the neighbor and to have a bigger house or a bigger truck. And for many lives go by in a circle even when they can live outside the system and create their own worlds.

Hmmm...

I don't go to church, but I know Gawd and pray to it daily.

My rule is, learn the game society sets forth and play it better than everyone. Of course, some do better than me, but I try.

I'm creating my own family dynasty. I've made a comfy portfolio that will provide my high-strung little Euro-wife and I a nice retirement and our "little Gawds" with a nice head start.