Enlightenment, Libertarian, 18th Century has Won

[Yzermandius19]

On 5/11/2022 at 11:53 AM, Nationalist said:

Interesting.

So...if you play a game of chess with someone, and your opponent captures your king, you would claim victory?

I was agreeing with you

you really are dense

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, Yzermandius19 said:

I was agreeing with you

you really are dense

America LOST the Vietnam war.

[Yzermandius19]

7 hours ago, Nationalist said:

America LOST the Vietnam war.

obviously

August1991 buys into anti-communist identity politics

where he feels he has to defend even America's greatest mistakes in the Cold War as necessary sacrifices that were responsible for its victory

just as you buy into anti-globalist identity politics and feel you have to defend even Russia's biggest mistakes while calling out the globalist elites for all of theirs

if anyone calls either of you out on that

you'll just claim a false dichotomy that puts anyone who disagrees with you

on the other team you are so intent on virtue signalling your opposition of

so you can write off their opinions without thinking

 

for example I both hate communists and globalist elites

but since I don't defend all the stupidest talking points that attack those groups

those who are radical tribalist identity politics people

use with us or against us purity spiral bullshit to portray me as the enemy too

these are classical examples of the pitfalls of reactionary thinking and the pitfalls of basing your identity on it

Edited May 14, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

obviously

August1991 buys into anti-communist identity politics

where he feels he has to defend even America's greatest mistakes in the Cold War as necessary sacrifices that were responsible for its victory

just as you buy into anti-globalist identity politics and feel you have to defend even Russia's biggest mistakes while calling out the globalist elites for all of theirs

if anyone calls either of you out on that

you'll just claim a false dichotomy that puts anyone who disagrees with you

on the other team you are so intent on virtue signalling your opposition of

so you can write off their opinions without thinking

 

for example I both hate communists and globalist elites

but since I don't defend all the stupidest talking points that attack those groups

those who are radical tribalist identity politics people

use with us or against us purity spiral bullshit to portray me as the enemy too

these are classical examples of the pitfalls of reactionary thinking and the pitfalls of basing your identity on it

I have never defended Russia. Jus pointing out the insanity of people who base their beliefs on one-sided propaganda. But of course you choose to say I do because when the message fails, you lie about the messager. A typical Tweenkie tactic.

[Yzermandius19]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

I have never defended Russia. Jus pointing out the insanity of people who base their beliefs on one-sided propaganda. But of course you choose to say I do because when the message fails, you lie about the messager. A typical Tweenkie tactic.

you do it repeatedly

any time anyone says anything negative about Russia

you just assume they don't know what they are talking about

and are brainwashed by propaganda

when many people who say negative things about Russia

are plenty educated on the matter

 

if all you were doing is pointing out people who base their beliefs on one sided propaganda

then I wouldn't take issue

but you also call out people for believing in one sided propaganda who clearly don't

while clearly believing in one sided propaganda yourself

if you want to point fingers, point them at yourself

instead of acting holier than thou and pointing them at people far less guilty of the crime you are accusing them of than you are

Edited May 14, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[August1991]

On 5/13/2022 at 8:41 PM, Nationalist said:

America LOST the Vietnam war.

Lost? Like Dieppe, Vietnam was an important battle in a larger war.

America won the Cold War.

Individuals can now freely travel. 

Edited May 15, 2022 by August1991

[August1991]

4 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Lost? I have a different view of the battle in Vietnam. Like Dieppe, to me, Vietnam was an important battle in a larger war.

America won the Cold War. For the good of us all.

Individuals can now freely travel.  Talk openly.

 

[Nationalist]

22 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

you do it repeatedly

any time anyone says anything negative about Russia

you just assume they don't know what they are talking about

and are brainwashed by propaganda

when many people who say negative things about Russia

are plenty educated on the matter

 

if all you were doing is pointing out people who base their beliefs on one sided propaganda

then I wouldn't take issue

but you also call out people for believing in one sided propaganda who clearly don't

while clearly believing in one sided propaganda yourself

if you want to point fingers, point them at yourself

instead of acting holier than thou and pointing them at people far less guilty of the crime you are accusing them of than you are

What horseshit.

[Nationalist]

7 hours ago, August1991 said:

Lost? Like Dieppe, Vietnam was an important battle in a larger war.

America won the Cold War.

Individuals can now freely travel. 

They LOST! Quit trying to re-write history.

[August1991]

On 5/13/2022 at 3:38 PM, Faramir said:

Oh boy had big argument with the wife on this.  I argued that as bad as colonialism was we brought Western liberalism to the world.  Your welcome.  The natives here engaged in barbaric coming of age rituals and we stopped that.  We brought an end to much of the caste system in India.  The world is better off now.  Southeast asia 100 years ago was a lesson in poverty.  Not any more.  The wife said different is not better.  Call me a western supremacist.

I have thought long on this.

Been there, done that.

Woman/Mother: Who taught you how to tie a shoelace?

Man/Father: Who taught you not to spit in the street?

Sister: Who told you that you should cut your toenails?

=====

I am amazed that we in the West take so much of our civilisation for granted,

[Nationalist]

On 5/13/2022 at 7:04 PM, Yzermandius19 said:

one election cannot ruin America

it is far too resilient for that to happen

Perhaps. 

Yet if the information in Hunter's laptop is true...and there's no reason to doubt that...then the POTUS is a manchurian candidate. A compromised criminal. 

The economy is a mess and the southern borader is wide open, actively changing the demographics of the USA.

And if Biden finally goads Russia into direct war...America and the entire world's population may be at risk.

[ExFlyer]

On 5/15/2022 at 1:02 AM, August1991 said:

Lost? Like Dieppe, Vietnam was an important battle in a larger war.

America won the Cold War.

Individuals can now freely travel. 

Vietnam was a loss. Not comparable to any other skirmish. They plain lost.

America won the cold war? How? When? The relationship is now worse than it has ever been.

We could not freely travel before? Baloney.

[Yzermandius19]

On 5/17/2022 at 11:29 AM, ExFlyer said:

America won the cold war? How? When? The relationship is now worse than it has ever been.

the Berlin Wall came down

the Soviet Union fell

the relationship is not worse than it's ever been

[August1991]

On 5/17/2022 at 11:29 AM, ExFlyer said:

Vietnam was a loss. Not comparable to any other skirmish. They plain lost.

America won the cold war? How? When? The relationship is now worse than it has ever been.

We could not freely travel before? Baloney.

The Berlin Wall no longer exists.

More important: People in Poland and Hanoi- and even China - use prices to trade.

=====

Like Dunkerque and Dieppe, Vietnam was a battle in a larger war.

America won the Cold War for the good of us all

Edited May 19, 2022 by August1991

[August1991]

2 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

the Berlin Wall came down

the Soviet Union fell

the relationship is not worse than it's ever been

Berlin Wall/Soviet Union?

America defeated socialism.

====

Relationship?

In thinking of Europe, Churchill referred to the wars of religion and the wars of nations.

[Yzermandius19]

16 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Berlin Wall/Soviet Union?

America defeated socialism.

====

socialism lives

the Soviet Union fell

[August1991]

On 5/18/2022 at 10:28 PM, Yzermandius19 said:

socialism lives

the Soviet Union fell

The only socialists/Marxists alive today are now teaching in Western universities.

I think Vaclav Havel said that.

====

According to the western MSM, Ukraine is a place on the map. Ukraine is a nation, a country.

The MSM is dead wrong.

This current place on the map - called Ukraine - is a wonderful mix of people of different languages, different religions.

The western part, Lemberg, is still today the best of all. I note that the MSM/CBC report from there.

=====

Poland is another story.

=====

Thank God for Lévesque and Trudeau Snr. We avoided a Lincoln civil war.

 

 

Edited May 21, 2022 by August1991

[Michael Hardner]

Savoj Zizek pressed Jordan Peterson, in their debate, to name some Marxists that Peterson said were dominant in academic circles.

Peterson blanked, because there are none.  There are no Marxists just as there are no Freudians.  

It was a set of ideas that had their day, and were a stepping stone in history.

[Yzermandius19]

51 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Savoj Zizek pressed Jordan Peterson, in their debate, to name some Marxists that Peterson said were dominant in academic circles.

Peterson blanked, because there are none.  There are no Marxists just as there are no Freudians.  

It was a set of ideas that had their day, and were a stepping stone in history.

there are lots of Marxists

Peterson blanked because he blanked

not because they don't exist

you wishing they didn't exist

does not make it so

[Yzermandius19]

7 hours ago, August1991 said:

The only socialists/Marxists alive today are now teaching in Western universities.

I think Vaclav Havel said that.

====

According to the western MSM, Ukraine is a place on the map. Ukraine is a nation, a country.

The MSM is dead wrong.

This current place on the map - called Ukraine - is a wonderful mix of people of different languages, different religions.

The western part, Lemberg, is still today the best of all. I note that the MSM/CBC report from there.

=====

Poland is another story.

=====

Thank God for Lévesque and Trudeau Snr. We avoided a Lincoln civil war.

 

 

there are far more socialists and Marxists than just in western universities

the most populous nation on earth is run by them

openly communist nations are less numerous than they used to be

but still exist

 

Ukraine is a nation, the media is correct, for once

the idea that Russia is entitled to it's "sphere of influence"

and any nation that lies within it isn't a real country

that is imperialist drivel

Edited May 21, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[Michael Hardner]

6 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

there are lots of Marxists

Peterson blanked because he blanked

not because they don't exist

you wishing they didn't exist

does not make it so

Yes but in positions of influence?

I have heard real Marxists and they are pretty clear that they're not even IN politics now.  It's a dead philosophy.

[Yzermandius19]

9 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Yes but in positions of influence?

I have heard real Marxists and they are pretty clear that they're not even IN politics now.  It's a dead philosophy.

in positions of influence

real Marxists are in politics now

the ideology is not dead at all

it just rebranded in many instances

and you are fooled into thinking they aren't "real" Marxists

just because some Marxists say they aren't "real" Marxists

they use different labels to call themselves

and deny they are Marxists when called out for being such

 

common examples of lies that communists tell to pretend they aren't commies

"I'm not a Marxist, I'm a Democratic Socialist"

"I'm not a Marxist, I'm just in favor of social justice"

"I'm not a Marxist, I'm just a fan of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion"

commie dogwhistles over 9000

Edited May 21, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[Michael Hardner]

33 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

 

1. and you are fooled into thinking they aren't "real" Marxists just because some Marxists say they aren't "real" Marxists

they use different labels to call themselves

 

2. "I'm not a Marxist, I'm just in favor of social justice"

"I'm not a Marxist, I'm just a fan of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion"

1. Do you believe that words have meaning?  If so, then you need to know that Marxism describes how private capital forms our society.

For someone to say 'identity politics is like Marxism because they decry power ' or somesuch bends the principal of meaning to the point where someone calling Trudeau 'elite' could also be called Marxism.

2. The implication is that someone who disagrees with racism is therefore Marxist.

-- -- --

The irony here is that the people who used to declare that they could redefine words to mean what they wanted to were the postmodernists, who are strongly related to the Wokists that you despise.

So you don't like Wokism but you buy into their most central premise - that words can be bent to mean anything in context?

@eyeballTHIS is why I am conservative.  I believe that words have meaning, and that labelling things Communist Marxist Liberal Democratic Wokism etc. Is revolutionary nonsense.

[Yzermandius19]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Do you believe that words have meaning?  If so, then you need to know that Marxism describes how private capital forms our society.

For someone to say 'identity politics is like Marxism because they decry power ' or somesuch bends the principal of meaning to the point where someone calling Trudeau 'elite' could also be called Marxism.

2. The implication is that someone who disagrees with racism is therefore Marxist.

1) I am referring to underlying philosophy

whether that ideology has an economic or cultural focus

it's the same ideology

switching the focus doesn't make it completely different

rebranding does change the nature of the product

2) the implication is that those claiming to be anti-racists are actually just racist Marxists who trick people into thinking they aren't racist by preaching Marxism

they redefined the words diversity, equity and inclusion to trick people into supporting:

- adherence to narrow dogma, while denouncing any intolerance toward any dissent of that dogma as racism

this is what they call diversity

- anti-meritocratic redistribution and quotas based on group identity, while denouncing meritocratic equality of opportunity for all as racism

this is what they call equity

- segregation based on group identity, while denouncing opposition to segregation based on group identity as racism

what is what they call inclusion

they are liars who use nice words to justify harmful actions by conflating the two

so people don't notice the latter because they are wrapped in the former

Edited May 21, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[August1991]

On 5/21/2022 at 7:25 AM, Yzermandius19 said:

===

Ukraine is a nation, the media is correct, for once

the idea that Russia is entitled to it's "sphere of influence"

====

If Ukraine is a nation, then Quebec is a nation too.

And how do we define a "nation"? By language? Geography?

Frankly, I don't see much difference between a Scottish English and the English of a Yorkshireman. Ta.

======

But as a Westerner, I can understand and respect a different way of doing things,

If Russians and Chinese want to organise life and their societies differently, I respect that.

====

Lincoln famously wrote that he would maintain the Union - even if it meant slavery.

It is clear that he took care to state his view. 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by August1991