Luz P. Posted July 11, 2022 Report Share Posted July 11, 2022 On 7/10/2022 at 1:41 PM, Yzermandius19 said: the Ukrainians think the price is worth it the Russians paying the price is of benefit to America and NATO Are you sure Americans think the price is worth it? 8) Biden Ukraine.mp4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted July 12, 2022 Report Share Posted July 12, 2022 12 hours ago, Luz P. said: Are you sure Americans think the price is worth it? 8) Biden Ukraine.mp4 yep if they didn't they wouldn't be giving them so much assistance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 On 7/12/2022 at 3:10 AM, Yzermandius19 said: yep if they didn't they wouldn't be giving them so much assistance Who is "they"? Whoever "they" are..."they're" in for a rude awakening this fall and winter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Who is "they"? Whoever "they" are..."they're" in for a rude awakening this fall and winter. Americans are they the Republicans are not pro-Russian and anti-Ukraine there is bipartisan support for Ukraine on both sides and if Trump was still POTUS he wouldn't just stay out of it and not arm Ukraine most Americans do not share your opinion on this Edited July 13, 2022 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Yzermandius19 said: Americans are they the Republicans are not pro-Russian and anti-Ukraine there is bipartisan support for Ukraine on both sides and if Trump was still POTUS he wouldn't just stay out of it and not arm Ukraine most Americans do not share your opinion on this You don't know what Trump would do. None of us do. Stupid Americans want war with Russia. Stupid Americans who don't understand global destruction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Nationalist said: You don't know what Trump would do. None of us do. Stupid Americans want war with Russia. Stupid Americans who don't understand global destruction. almost no one wants war with Russia smart Americans realize that appeasement increases the chances of war we do know what Trump would do because he was arming Ukraine prior to this latest invasion he wouldn't just back down to pander to appeasement monkeys like you Edited July 13, 2022 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said: almost no one wants war with Russia smart Americans realize that appeasement increases the chances of war we do know what Trump would do because he was arming Ukraine prior to this latest invasion he wouldn't just back down to pander to appeasement monkeys like you He would probably do the wise thing and stay the fuck out of it. You're acting like a war hawk and you know it. There is no rational reason to continue to pour money into this and raise the risk of direct confrontation. Not for a sliver of a newly formed nation that has been rejected by NATO and has an actor playing the roll of a dictator and neo-Nazi, as president. This whole story...including the economic repercussions...is fucking ludicrous! There is nothing but down-side to this silliness. Edited July 13, 2022 by Nationalist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 17 minutes ago, Nationalist said: He would probably do the wise thing and stay the fuck out of it. You're acting like a war hawk and you know it. There is no rational reason to continue to pour money into this and raise the risk of direct confrontation. Not for a sliver of a newly formed nation that has been rejected by NATO and has an actor playing the roll of a dictator and neo-Nazi, as president. This whole story...including the economic repercussions...is fucking ludicrous! There is nothing but down-side to this silliness. if they do nothing the consequences will be worse America acting weak, like they wouldn't do anything if Russia invaded, is a big reason why Russia invaded Ukraine in the first place more weakness is not the answer Trump knows, that's why Russia didn't do shit on his watch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Yzermandius19 said: if they do nothing the consequences will be worse America acting weak, like they wouldn't do anything if Russia invaded, is a big reason why Russia invaded Ukraine in the first place more weakness is not the answer Trump knows, that's why Russia didn't do shit on his watch Worse according to whom? Biden? Putin? CNN? Pixie-Dust? CBC? You "assume" way too much and the price of your "assumption" is way too high. How is not getting involved in a war that has nothing to do with the USA or NATO, acting week? Putin didn't attack Ukraine because Ukraine had a smaller military. He attacked because the Azovs and the Ukraine military were bombing the shit outta ethnic Russians who held a referendum to be independent from Ukraine. Let's at least try to acknowledge all the facts please. Trump "may" have been a reason Putin held off and waited for Biden to show his cards, before doing anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Worse according to whom? Biden? Putin? CNN? Pixie-Dust? CBC? You "assume" way too much and the price of your "assumption" is way too high. How is not getting involved in a war that has nothing to do with the USA or NATO, acting week? Putin didn't attack Ukraine because Ukraine had a smaller military. He attacked because the Azovs and the Ukraine military were bombing the shit outta ethnic Russians who held a referendum to be independent from Ukraine. Let's at least try to acknowledge all the facts please. Trump "may" have been a reason Putin held off and waited for Biden to show his cards, before doing anything. the referendum was at gunpoint after Russia invaded Ukraine was retaliating the cost of your assumptions are too high you think there is some way to have no chance of war with Russia if America just let's Russia do whatever they want but that is not even close to the case Edited July 13, 2022 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 20 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: the referendum was at gunpoint after Russia invaded Ukraine was retaliating the cost of your assumptions are too high you think there is some way to have no chance of war with Russia if America just let's Russia do whatever they want but that is not even close to the case Says the same media and politicos who gave us RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA. Ok so...grain of salt time... Retaliating? For what? A referendum? Has Putin threatened to attack any NATO nation unprovoked? No? Oh...so...ya... YES! DON'T FUCKING ATTACK THEM!!! Your last statement makes no Gawd Damn sense. You explain to me why, after watching Biden botch the Afghan exit, Putin met with Ping and then attacked Ukraine. What's your theory on why Russia attacked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 10 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Says the same media and politicos who gave us RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA. Ok so...grain of salt time... Retaliating? For what? A referendum? Has Putin threatened to attack any NATO nation unprovoked? No? Oh...so...ya... YES! DON'T FUCKING ATTACK THEM!!! Your last statement makes no Gawd Damn sense. You explain to me why, after watching Biden botch the Afghan exit, Putin met with Ping and then attacked Ukraine. What's your theory on why Russia attacked? retaliating for an invasion Russia attacked first dumbass not Ukraine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 52 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: retaliating for an invasion Russia attacked first dumbass not Ukraine Actually...I believe the Azovs attacked the Donbas and the people of the Donbas fought back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted July 14, 2022 Report Share Posted July 14, 2022 7 hours ago, Nationalist said: Actually...I believe the Azovs attacked the Donbas and the people of the Donbas fought back. yeah I know you believe Russian propaganda they attacked because Russia attacked first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted July 14, 2022 Report Share Posted July 14, 2022 10 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said: yeah I know you believe Russian propaganda they attacked because Russia attacked first Yeah I know you believe Donna LeMon. But you and she are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted July 14, 2022 Report Share Posted July 14, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Yeah I know you believe Donna LeMon. But you and she are wrong. nope attacking the messenger and not the message is ad hominem even a broken clock is right twice a day and just having the opposite view of people you don't like allows them to choose your views for you your reactionary identity politics is emotional drivel just a major idiot holds a position doesn't mean that position is wrong Don Lemon also thinks drinking water is a good idea, that doesn't mean you should never drink water Edited July 14, 2022 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted July 14, 2022 Report Share Posted July 14, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said: nope attacking the messenger and not the message is ad hominem even a broken clock is right twice a day and just having the opposite view of people you don't like allows them to choose your views for you your reactionary identity politics is emotional drivel just a major idiot holds a position doesn't mean that position is wrong Don Lemon also thinks drinking water is a good idea, that doesn't mean you should never drink water 2 hours ago, Nationalist said: yeah I know you believe Russian propaganda Glass houses? I don't "believe" anyone at this point. I read...I watch independent reports on the internet...I watch FOX and CNN and MSNBC and NewsMax...and even this site, and then, I make up my mind and position based on the "truth" I've managed to glean from all the sources...as my own senses perceive it. This method has been working out well. I always new the Russia/Trump thing was akin to vapour-ware...and it was. I always knew Hunter's laptop was real and if ever exposed, would be incredibly damning for Ol' Joe and a number of US politicians, both Republican and Democrat...and it is. I strongly suspect that the Libbies managed to poison the 2020 election enough to swing the results...and time will tell but...ya... In this particular case...if you bother to actually understand the actions and motivations related to this Ukraine debacle, you'll see that the issue is not black and white, but very sorted and tied to what one could call 'Ancient European History'. In other words, this is a tad more than "Putin Bad". Your position is fucking dangerous for everyone on Earth. Do you really understand that? Look at recent history. What do you see? - Biden sticks his tail between his legs and surrenders in Afghanistan. (an event that I'd bet, made a lot of people laugh at the international irony of it all) - Putin and Ping meet. - Putin sends his "B Team" military to Ukraine. Bombs the capital (cut the head off), and amasses his forces in where? Oops...Donbas. If I'm not mistaken, there are 2 boarder provinces there that declare independence the same year Crimea did. Not "coerced" as so many like to whine, but the democratically voted upon result...independence from Ukraine. And can anyone blame them? Ukraine was a friggin' mess after the Euro-Maidan Revolution (Revolution of Dignity), the nation was in a state of anarchy and political thuggery. Not only that, but as a direct result, Ukraine decided to ban Russian trade...which in turn saw the Russians reciprocate...which about broke the economy in Ukraine. Dumb...Dumb...Dumb.! - NATO and the western alliance begin to virtue signal over a newly formed and incredibly turbulent Ukraine because..."Russia Bad". Yet they had already denied Ukraine entry to NATO because...it was incredibly turbulent. - Putin outright spells out the rules of engagement for this exercise with a nuclear threat. - NATO stands down...somewhat. They impose economic sanctions and send old military hardware to Ukrainians who have been forced to fight in this new conflict...one they know deep down inside...they can't win. - The sabre rattling goes on still. The world's 2 biggest nuclear powers, staring each other down...over a nation nobody really wants...lead by an absent old fool, and a dictator. GOOD IDEA!!! Edited July 14, 2022 by Nationalist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted July 14, 2022 Report Share Posted July 14, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nationalist said: Glass houses? I don't "believe" anyone at this point. I read...I watch independent reports on the internet...I watch FOX and CNN and MSNBC and NewsMax...and even this site, and then, I make up my mind and position based on the "truth" I've managed to glean from all the sources...as my own senses perceive it. This method has been working out well. I always new the Russia/Trump thing was akin to vapour-ware...and it was. I always knew Hunter's laptop was real and if ever exposed, would be incredibly damning for Ol' Joe and a number of US politicians, both Republican and Democrat...and it is. I strongly suspect that the Libbies managed to poison the 2020 election enough to swing the results...and time will tell but...ya... In this particular case...if you bother to actually understand the actions and motivations related to this Ukraine debacle, you'll see that the issue is not black and white, but very sorted and tied to what one could call 'Ancient European History'. In other words, this is a tad more than "Putin Bad". Your position is fucking dangerous for everyone on Earth. Do you really understand that? Look at recent history. What do you see? - Biden sticks his tail between his legs and surrenders in Afghanistan. (an event that I'd bet, made a lot of people laugh at the international irony of it all) - Putin and Ping meet. - Putin sends his "B Team" military to Ukraine. Bombs the capital (cut the head off), and amasses his forces in where? Oops...Donbas. If I'm not mistaken, there are 2 boarder provinces there that declare independence the same year Crimea did. Not "coerced" as so many like to whine, but the democratically voted upon result...independence from Ukraine. And can anyone blame them? Ukraine was a friggin' mess after the Euro-Maidan Revolution (Revolution of Dignity), the nation was in a state of anarchy and political thuggery. Not only that, but as a direct result, Ukraine decided to ban Russian trade...which in turn saw the Russians reciprocate...which about broke the economy in Ukraine. Dumb...Dumb...Dumb.! - NATO and the western alliance begin to virtue signal over a newly formed and incredibly turbulent Ukraine because..."Russia Bad". Yet they had already denied Ukraine entry to NATO because...it was incredibly turbulent. - Putin outright spells out the rules of engagement for this exercise with a nuclear threat. - NATO stands down...somewhat. They impose economic sanctions and send old military hardware to Ukrainians who have been forced to fight in this new conflict...one they know deep down inside...they can't win. - The sabre rattling goes on still. The world's 2 biggest nuclear powers, staring each other down...over a nation nobody really wants...lead by an absent old fool, and a dictator. GOOD IDEA!!! being right about the Trump/Russia hoax, Hunter's laptop, or 2020 election shenanigans does not make you right about the Russian/Ukrainian conflict this time your judgment has let you down and you believe the wrong information you want to pretend that everyone who opposes Russia, was wrong about everything and therefore you shouldn't believe them now but if you actually did any good research you would realize that obliviously isn't the case your position is based on reactionary identity politics you hold the position you do, because the people you don't like hold the opposite the position then you backwards rationalize from there, trying to jam a square peg into a round hole you came in with a strong confirmation bias, and when confronted with something that cuts against it, cognitive dissonance kicks in to keep your blinders on you have far too much of your identity attached to thinking your the smartest man in the room on this so you won't concede any ground or you'll destroy your own self image anything that goes against your confirmation bias is dismissed without thought while you last out at it with a parade of fallacies Edited July 14, 2022 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted July 14, 2022 Report Share Posted July 14, 2022 6 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: being right about the Trump/Russia hoax, Hunter's laptop, or 2020 election shenanigans does not make you right about the Russian/Ukrainian conflict this time your judgment has let you down and you believe the wrong information you want to pretend that everyone who opposes Russia, was wrong about everything and therefore you shouldn't believe them now but if you actually did any good research you would realize that obliviously isn't the case your position is based on reactionary identity politics you hold the position you do, because the people you don't like hold the opposite the position then you backwards rationalize from there, trying to jam a square peg into a round hole you came in with a strong confirmation bias, and when confronted with something that cuts against it, cognitive dissonance kicks in to keep your blinders on you have far too much of your identity attached to thinking your the smartest man in the room on this so you won't concede any ground or you'll destroy your own self image Thank you Doctor. I'll take your analysis under advisement. We agree on a number of things...so I'm not sure how you figure I'm drowning in identity politics. I actually think you're engaging in projection here. What you seem to miss is...I too "oppose" Russia's efforts here. I'm not a fan of unprovoked military actions. Russia could have worked WITH NATO to find a diplomatic solution. Maybe they tried and I don't know about it but...they did decide to use military force. I'm saying that all of the players here...Zelinski...Putin...Biden...Germany...and all the other nations involved...got what they fucking paid for! The lesson being...stupid decisions lead to shitty results. Now you can truck along laying blame and marching toward a war NOBODY wants. Or...you can try to understand the entire situation...so that a rational and peaceful solution/compromise can be reached. Preferably BEFORE we all become radio active dust. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luz P. Posted July 14, 2022 Report Share Posted July 14, 2022 I wish Europe the best and hope they’re prepared to weather the storm coming their way. Sanctions have certainly hurt Russia but not to the point of crippling them into defeat. Their economy was grossly underestimated. Unlike some countries’ economies that are service-based and heavily rely on financial speculation, Russia’s economy is commodity and product based, they have stuff the world wants and needs. This will enable them to deal with sanctions for a long time – possibly years. Especially, because most countries haven’t joined in imposing sanctions. Also, Europe must consider that if Republicans win 2024 (as they most certainly will) and if Trump becomes president, funding for NATO and foreign aid to Ukraine will stop. Many Americans are furious with Biden’s magnanimous approach. How much has he given to Ukraine $54B – $60B? All this while the American people are hurting and with no checks and balances attached to the “gifts”. Its been reported by the Financial Times that Ukrainian oligarchs are smuggling weapons and of money gone missing – nothing new, this also happened in Iraq. On a related note, the Euro is now on par with the USD for the first time in 20 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted July 14, 2022 Report Share Posted July 14, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Luz P. said: Also, Europe must consider that if Republicans win 2024 (as they most certainly will) and if Trump becomes president, funding for NATO and foreign aid to Ukraine will stop. that is not Trump's position and it never was Trump simply wanted other NATO countries to contribute more to NATO and his administration sent plenty of aid to Ukraine when he gets elected in 2024 that is not going to change Edited July 14, 2022 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luz P. Posted July 14, 2022 Report Share Posted July 14, 2022 29 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: that is not Trump's position and it never was Want to bet? Trump is a populist and will do whatever it takes to get the votes. Pandering to angry conservatives is what he does best - not to begrudge them. Biden acts as if he is president of Ukraine, not the USA. Imagine giving $60B away just because Vodka Man Bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted July 15, 2022 Report Share Posted July 15, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, Luz P. said: Want to bet? Trump is a populist and will do whatever it takes to get the votes. Pandering to angry conservatives is what he does best - not to begrudge them. Biden acts as if he is president of Ukraine, not the USA. Imagine giving $60B away just because Vodka Man Bad. that's not what Americans want you are projecting on the American electorate I'll take any bet you offer you don't know Trump and you don't know Americans Edited July 15, 2022 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted July 15, 2022 Report Share Posted July 15, 2022 14 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said: that's not what Americans want you are projecting on the American electorate I'll take any bet you offer you don't know Trump and you don't know Americans Quote you have far too much of your identity attached to thinking your the smartest man in the room on this 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted July 15, 2022 Report Share Posted July 15, 2022 some of us are smart enough to know that most people don't share our views some of us aren't smart enough to realize that they don't and project on others 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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