blackbird Posted January 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: They allow Divorce and you are ok with that because it's a 'big issue'. You are already embracing the principle of separate church and state, which is a liberal keystone. No, I said divorce is justified in some cases. Would you say a woman who is being abused should not be able to get a divorce or a man in such a situation? It is not really that complicated is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 2, 2022 Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 Just now, Yzermandius19 said: well as I pointed out Buddhism is a rather atheistic religion so don't be terribly surprised by the connective tissue I think its more accurate to say its a psychology. Where it spread it was often incorporated into local belief systems but essentially it's more about having a personal relationship with reality and your own nature than anything. Animist cultural beliefs that blur the lines between the self and the universe around them are particularly interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 2, 2022 Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 18 minutes ago, blackbird said: I know I am a sinner and never said I wasn't. But the subject at hand requires me to point out why liberals and left are supporting evil/ sin as a central part of their platforms. No, it looks a lot more like your beliefs require you to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 2, 2022 Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 2 minutes ago, blackbird said: 1. But it is immaterial at this point. 2. This is a debate over government policies and Biblical truth, so of course it is necessary to point out what God teaches in the Bible. 1. No it's not. Just because you say it's immaterial, then it is? How can you live by principles that you can't articulate to me without a web site to explain? 2. You can certainly use the Bible as a basis for your morality,and guidance on policy matters. It's your reasoning that I find fault with; especially the idea that we're in decline or that Christians can't support LGBTQ rights or be Marxist. You support separate church and state by your own admission. I'm the same way. Trying to find a loophole for Divorce doesn't fly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 2, 2022 Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 9 minutes ago, blackbird said: 1. Would you say a woman who is being abused should not be able to get a divorce or a man in such a situation? It is not really that complicated is it? 1. No, but I would also not deny secular marriage to folks who were born gay. Not complicated either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 42 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: there are plenty of contradictions in the Bible Jesus was a reformer who disagreed with things stated in the Old Testament and many Jews ostracized him for it assuming that because other parts of the Bible had a certain stance on homosexuality that therefore Jesus must have agreed doesn't hold water Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, blackbird said: 58 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: there are plenty of contradictions in the Bible Jesus was a reformer who disagreed with things stated in the Old Testament and many Jews ostracized him for it assuming that because other parts of the Bible had a certain stance on homosexuality that therefore Jesus must have agreed doesn't hold water I know there are many churches that accept same-sex marriage and take a very liberal view on the subject. But I don't believe they are following the Bible on the subject. They are very liberal, modernist churches. There are many different websites with different opinions on the subject as well. All this has created a lot of confusion in many people's minds. I removed that link because they are using a corrupt version of the Bible. The NIV translation is one the very corrupt versions. They had a lesbian on their translation committee and they removed the word sodomy from the Bible and replaced it with temple prostitutes which is an extreme corruption and changing the Bible. The King James Version (1611) is the only accurate version and is based on the Received Text. This link has references in the King James Version, which is trustworthy: BIBLE VERSES ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY (kingjamesbibleonline.org) Edited January 2, 2022 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 18 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. No, but I would also not deny secular marriage to folks who were born gay. Not complicated either. Then you don't know what the Bible teaches about marriage. It is only between a man and woman according to the Bible. Something else for you to Google. Search Bible and marriage. Lots to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Huxley Posted January 2, 2022 Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 6 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said: Buddhism is a huge cut below Christianity but a huge cut above the religions that came before it axial age religions > pre-axial age religions the Buddhists of today were heavily influenced by Christian values, particularly western Buddhists Yzermandius why do you find axial and post axial religions to be a cut above the pre-axial age and have you read Jaspers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 24 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. No it's not. Just because you say it's immaterial, then it is? How can you live by principles that you can't articulate to me without a web site to explain? 2. You can certainly use the Bible as a basis for your morality,and guidance on policy matters. It's your reasoning that I find fault with; especially the idea that we're in decline or that Christians can't support LGBTQ rights or be Marxist. You support separate church and state by your own admission. I'm the same way. Trying to find a loophole for Divorce doesn't fly. I don't know how to make it clearer to you. I have quoted Scripture but you seem bent on ignoring or refusing to accept it. What would convince you if not the Bible? You say you are a Christian. What is your rule of faith then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 29 minutes ago, eyeball said: No, it looks a lot more like your beliefs require you to do that. Yes, my beliefs require me to point out evil or misguided beliefs in politics. Isn't that the sensible thing to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 2, 2022 Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 2 minutes ago, blackbird said: Yes, my beliefs require me to point out evil or misguided beliefs in politics. Isn't that the sensible thing to do? Not until you've questioned your own first. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 2, 2022 Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 4 minutes ago, blackbird said: 5 minutes ago, blackbird said: I don't know how to make it clearer to you. I have quoted Scripture but you seem bent on ignoring or refusing to accept it. What would convince you if not the Bible? You say you are a Christian. What is your rule of faith then? I accept scripture but have explained the problems with how you use it. You pick and choose the sections to suit your prejudices, with all respect. I follow principle, with the golden rule being the governing principle over all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 2, 2022 Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 13 minutes ago, blackbird said: Then you don't know what the Bible teaches about marriage. It is only between a man and woman according to the Bible. Something else for you to Google. Search Bible and marriage. Lots to learn. Secular marriage isn't religious marriage, which is why divorce is allowed. You accept that principle, so therefore you accept secular/legal marriage has its own rules. You can't argue, with principles, that same sex marriage is a different thing. Like I say, best approach for you is to say 'I just don't like it' then principles don't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: I accept scripture but have explained the problems with how you use it. You pick and choose the sections to suit your prejudices, with all respect. I follow principle, with the golden rule being the governing principle over all. quote 6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. 7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. unquote Mark 10:6-8 KJB This proves God ordained marriage to be between a man and woman. Show me one verse that supports your argument that is can be between two people of the same sex. How could it be anyway if God condemns same-sex relations throughout the Bible? Edited January 2, 2022 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 15 minutes ago, eyeball said: Not until you've questioned your own first. What should I question? I could speak to myself if you think it would be useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 2, 2022 Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 1 minute ago, blackbird said: What should I question? I could speak to myself if you think it would be useful. One can always hope. I'll even pray for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: I accept scripture but have explained the problems with how you use it. You pick and choose the sections to suit your prejudices, with all respect. I follow principle, with the golden rule being the governing principle over all. Very convenient, but it holds no water because you haven't given any evidence to support such a claim. I gave you verses, but you give nothing but some vague claim you are following a "golden rule". Where does the Bible say anything about a "golden rule"? Give me a verse or verses that would support your claim that marriage can be between people of the same sex. You still haven't done this. Edited January 2, 2022 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 2 minutes ago, eyeball said: One can always hope. I'll even pray for you. I think you are being mischievous, kind of like a little gremlin. Can't be taken seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 2, 2022 Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 4 minutes ago, blackbird said: Very convenient, but it holds no water because you haven't given any evidence to support such a claim. I gave you verses, but you give nothing but some vague claim you are following a "golden rule". Where does the Bible say anything about a "golden rule"? Which claim? I don't take what the Old Testament says, and it seems you don't either. Jesus' Commandment to love is commonly referred to as The Golden Rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 2, 2022 Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 1 minute ago, blackbird said: I think you are being mischievous, kind of like a little gremlin. Can't be taken seriously. I'm certainly serious about hoping, there's always hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Which claim? I don't take what the Old Testament says, and it seems you don't either. Jesus' Commandment to love is commonly referred to as The Golden Rule. The Bible says in many verse that homosexuality is wrong, but you say it is love to recognize same-sex marriage? Jesus refers to marriage as between a man and woman, but you claim it is love that motivates you to accept same-sex marriage. That is what would be called a complete contradiction of what God teaches. You would have to ignore the whole sum of the Bible's condemnation of homosexuality. You also ignore what the Bible teaches about marriage. You could use the same argument to condone paedophilia or bestiality. It's just love. Give us a break! You have a lot of studying to do. Edited January 2, 2022 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 2, 2022 Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 4 minutes ago, blackbird said: The Bible says in many verse that homosexuality is wrong, but you say it is love to recognize same-sex marriage? Jesus refers to marriage as between a man and woman, but you claim it is love that motivate you to accept same-sex marriage. That is what would be called a complete contradiction of what the God teaches. You could use the same argument to condone paedophilia or bestiality. It's just love. Give us a break! comparing homosexuality to pedophilia or bestality is ridiculous give us a break Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 2, 2022 Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 3 minutes ago, blackbird said: 1. The Bible says in many verse that homosexuality is wrong, but you say it is love to recognize same-sex marriage? 2. You could use the same argument to condone paedophilia or bestiality. 3. You have a lot of studying to do. 1. Yes, love the gays in the same way you love divorcees and lobster eaters. 2. You don't understand morality... Having sex with someone who can't consent is rape. That's pretty basic. 3. I'll start once you explain why it's ok for you to pick and choose scriptural guidelines. Separate church and state is something every Christian should support. My Marxist Christians can explain their faith and would never say "we've moved past that" on a question about Christian morality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2022 2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: comparing homosexuality to pedophilia or bestality is ridiculous give us a break If someone can interpret the Bible (or more accurately ignore the Bible's condemnation of homosexuality) and approve of homosexuality and same-sex marriage, there is not limit to what they could approve of, including pedophilia and beastiality. If anything goes or whatever one claims makes him happy, why not eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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