Liberals flood Canada with hundreds of thousands of colonists/settlers as part of ramping up Neo-colonization plans.

[OftenWrong]

All because you people are liberal hedonists who don’t make babies.

Edited December 13, 2021 by OftenWrong

[G Huxley]

Cougar indeed. Ponzi scheme is another word I'd use in addition.

[G Huxley]

"All because you people are liberal hedonists who don’t make babies. "

Who is "you people?"

I have a one child and plan to have another.

[Zeitgeist]

10 hours ago, G Huxley said:

"I hear what you’re saying, but then we’ll have to shift to a low growth model."

Why any growth? At the very least stop growth, or go to a de-growth model.

"Our economy is built on the idea that by locking in today’s prices, for example by buying a house right now and taking on a mortgage, over time, as wages and the economy grow, that mortgage payment becomes a smaller portion of your income. You get wealthier. The inflation that goes with this growth also means that when you sell your home 20 years later, it will be worth far more than you paid for it. This is the story of how most Canadians have built their nest eggs and moved up financially for the last century. Much of that growth and inflation depends on a steady increase in development, which comes through settlement, mainly immigration, since our birth rate is close to negative. "

Indeed.

"A world in which your asset values and wages are essentially stagnant would require a more modest lifestyle and slower accumulation of wealth than we’ve had in many decades. Doable but difficult. "

A better situation. Wages are stagnant anyway as they are wiped out by inflation.

"Basically we’d end up living in small apartments and living on essentials. "

I don't see why small apartments are necessary under a de-growth model. They become a necessity under the current model as housing price inflation and increased growth development/density lead to exactly this picture.

"It jibes with efforts to slash greenhouse gasses"

Naturally.

"recent totalitarian restrictions on movement and surveillance to control the “pandemic”. "

Non sequitur. De-growth involves none of the above.

"I think we have to find sustainable forms of modest growth. "

Sustainable growth is an oxymoron. Endless growth is a tumour plain and simple.

It’s not an oxymoron if some of the growth involves removing asphalt from former industrial sites to restore former green fields, retrofitting buildings with insulation, installing wind, solar, geothermal, and deep water cooling, adding green roofs, building hydro plants and mini reactors.  We can grow by utilizing existing footprints, using infill developments, and building up, repurposing commercial and office buildings for residential, etc.   

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, G Huxley said:

"All because you people are liberal hedonists who don’t make babies. "

Who is "you people?"

I have a one child and plan to have another.

So you are doing your part, though not enough. Every state is reporting population decline, especially among first-world nations. There is a lot more to this than just having fun and sex. You are screwing for god and country!!

[OftenWrong]

On 12/6/2021 at 2:03 PM, Faramir said:

 Plenty of unemployed in New Brunswick that can take these jobs.

Finger the people of NB again? Sounds great.

Round them up, round them up. We need the cheap labour...

[cougar]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

So you are doing your part, though not enough. Every state is reporting population decline, especially among first-world nations. There is a lot more to this than just having fun and sex. You are screwing for god and country!!

Did we not say the World is overpopulated as it is?  Having more than 2 kids only makes our climate situation worse.

But then you have our government pretending to take the climate seriously, while bringing 450,000 people from other places to have the population growth they want.   

Which again brings us to the same revelation - we are not a nation and cannot achieve anything; we are managed like sheep in a herd  for mostly foreign interests and the interest of a few large scale crooks in the country.

[myata]

13 hours ago, cougar said:

Because the fuckers can't think of anything else that will sustain the pyramid scheme society that they have created.

Two essential sources of revenue as things stand, remember?

1) "Borrow" aka take from the future generations.

2) Sell the country.

There's nothing else. Nobody thought of it in 150 years, it always worked this way.

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, myata said:

Two essential sources of revenue as things stand, remember?

1) "Borrow" aka take from the future generations.

2) Sell the country.

There's nothing else. Nobody thought of it in 150 years, it always worked this way.

What made Canada great was her freedoms, democratic institutions, and openness to new and better ways.  At its core was the Protestant Work Ethic, the wisdom of old Rome (the Vatican through New France), the expansiveness of the British Navy, the ultra-modern cosmopolitanism of modern media (McLuhan, Bell, Nortel), the tremendous work to protect freedom through world wars (Mackenzie King, St. Laurent), peacekeeping (Pearson), universal health care (Douglas), and international aid (Trudeau Senior, Mulroney, Harper, Bethune).  The best of them could stick handle the Americans by finding common cause (Mulroney, Chrétien, Harper).

Trudeau Junior overspends and undermines our history of industriousness and pride by catering to victimhood and constantly apologizing for the founding forces that are the foundation of one of the most successful countries on Earth   Kowtowing to foreign powers and letting both spending and immigration escalate without a clear sense of what is worth protecting and supplementing is selling out the country.   I’m not sure any mainstream party has the honesty and courage to call out the identity politics nonsense and get us back on track.

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[myata]

15 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

our history of industriousness and pride

Looking at razed forests, destroyed fisheries, contaminated lakes and areas of the size of small countries, clean water problem decades long, residential schools etc I'm not sure how much of it is a self-dreamed legend, a beavertale. Where are groundbreaking projects like those being built in the Netherlands (population 17 million)? A 30m concrete wall in the neighborhood several months in construction now frozen for the winter.

But sure let's bring in another so many millions and see what happens. This is how we work and think, ne c'est pas? We already had to shut down the province several times due to problems of Toronto, but what would a 20 million Toronto be like, wanna find out? What would one pay for a place in Vancouver, how many (dozen) million? Who cares, not to worry, let's dream big (the salary and entitlements certainly not a problem, in a country with stagnating for decades living standard). What a bunch of pipe-dreaming pompous idiots in a total disconnect from reality, yet again and is it any surprise? Generations of unrestricted bureaucratic evolution with no connection between reward and result, out of any accountability and responsibility to the society that pays for it does it naturally and easily. Sure, again. Move on.

[cannuck]

On 12/13/2021 at 1:00 AM, cougar said:

They will keep pumping bodies into this country at higher and higher volumes and continue to "develop" and destroy lands and forests and they do it , you know why?

Because the fuckers can't think of anything else that will sustain the pyramid scheme society that they have created.

 

Sadly, I must agree.  The real question is when will Canadians stop being completely ignorant of the real issues and continue to elect virtue signaling morons who buy their votes with our grandchildren's money.

Then there is the obvious follow-on question: when will the so-called Conservatives put together a slate of conservative candidates instead of trying to out liberal the Liberals???

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, myata said:

Looking at razed forests, destroyed fisheries, contaminated lakes and areas of the size of small countries, clean water problem decades long, residential schools etc I'm not sure how much of it is a self-dreamed legend, a beavertale. Where are groundbreaking projects like those being built in the Netherlands (population 17 million)? A 30m concrete wall in the neighborhood several months in construction now frozen for the winter.

But sure let's bring in another so many millions and see what happens. This is how we work and think, ne c'est pas? We already had to shut down the province several times due to problems of Toronto, but what would a 20 million Toronto be like, wanna find out? What would one pay for a place in Vancouver, how many (dozen) million? Who cares, not to worry, let's dream big (the salary and entitlements certainly not a problem, in a country with stagnating for decades living standard). What a bunch of pipe-dreaming pompous idiots in a total disconnect from reality, yet again and is it any surprise? Generations of unrestricted bureaucratic evolution with no connection between reward and result, out of any accountability and responsibility to the society that pays for it does it naturally and easily. Sure, again. Move on.

Well, I’d still rather live in Canada than the Netherlands, another overcrowded puppet of the EU.  Canada is blessed with tremendous natural riches, strong democratic institutions, and remains one of the best countries in which to live and work, but that status is waning and in jeopardy.  I look at a province like Ontario, where most of the population resides within 100 kilometres of the Lake Ontario shoreline, yet there’s another lake to the south, in Ontario, that has a small number of relatively small settlements and could absorb more people (Lake Erie). Eastern Ontario is still somewhat sparsely populated. Northern Ontario north of North Bay is about the size of England, but it’s a much less hospitable geography.

We have some room for growth, even in our most populous province.  It’s where and how we develop that counts.  Are we preserving valuable farmland?  Are we building a variety of settlement types that are built with walkable village centres, sustainable energy sources, and fine architecture and planning, for pedestrians rather than just motorists?

There’s no need to turn the southern end of Canada into an ultra dense Hong Kong (vertical sprawl) or an endless sprawling Orange County (urban sprawl), and there’s no need to increase the population substantially.  A certain amount of immigration is probably necessary to maintain our population.  We could grow our population a bit beyond the current number, slowly, if we can do it in the right ways.  I’m sceptical.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[myata]

17 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Well, I’d still rather live in Canada than the Netherlands, another overcrowded puppet of the EU.

Well, apart from individual preferences it would make sense, logically, to first learn how to live and grow cleanly and sustainably including coexistence with the environment and prosperity, then and if consider expansion.

Why should it be the other way around, or massive expansion instead and in place of sustainability and prosperity I couldn't make a grain of sense of. One probably has to spend decades in those cabinets even to begin grasping it.

[Zeitgeist]

35 minutes ago, myata said:

Well, apart from individual preferences it would make sense, logically, to first learn how to live and grow cleanly and sustainably including coexistence with the environment and prosperity, then and if consider expansion.

Why should it be the other way around, or massive expansion instead and in place of sustainability and prosperity I couldn't make a grain of sense of. One probably has to spend decades in those cabinets even to begin grasping it.

Well Canada has a mixed record in environmental protection and sustainable practices.  I agree that we’re behind much of Northern Europe, but that’s probably because we haven’t faced the same pressing necessity to manage our land more carefully.  Ever been to a crowded beach in Belgium?  There are reasons why many European countries had much higher death rates from Covid, and it’s not just about public health policy.

Our forest management has improved and, as we can see in BC, balancing land management with natural resource development can be very hard given radical voices from both sides.  Our city planning in Ontario improved greatly with the Greenbelt and densification policies to prevent sprawl.  The Great Lakes protections in place since the 80’s have helped.  So did eliminating coal plants.

The residential school business is much more complicated than at first glance it appears.  The Canadian government had to deal with the reality of a scattered uneducated Indigenous population that on the most part couldn’t cope successfully in modern society.  Free education was seen by progressives as a leg up, but providing it required residence for those from small communities, as it still does today in Indigenous run schools.  It seems radical making kids leave their parents by today’s standards, and there were exemptions, but mandatory education for children is still seen as a social good.  Not providing free public education would be seen as much worse.  The reserve system and Indian Act have been attempts at preserving culture and providing support, but the truth is that one can’t be truly independent with so much outside intervention and so little Indigenous investment.  Access to local resources has worked well in the sustainable areas.

I believe in the ingenuity of Canadians and our institutions to solve our problems and achieve great things, but we have to stop apologizing and drawing attention to past imperfections that are water under the bridge and that seemed right at the time.  I can’t think of any other country that apologizes and makes restitution as much as Canada.  We need to drop the victim mentality and think about what we can do to make Canada better.  

Edited December 14, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[myata]

46 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I believe in the ingenuity of Canadians and our institutions to solve our problems

I'd like to believe but that is not the same as seeing it. In the decades since end of last century, barely any progress has been made in any of the essential challenges, most importantly, prosperity, quality of public services and sustainability. The thinking has switched from setting challenges and accomplishing results to spending public billions just to keep the status quo going for a little while longer. The civil society is anemic and weak.

No, believing is not the same as educated hope at least as far as I can see it.

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, myata said:

I'd like to believe but that is not the same as seeing it. In the decades since end of last century, barely any progress has been made in any of the essential challenges, most importantly, prosperity, quality of public services and sustainability. The thinking has switched from setting challenges and accomplishing results to spending public billions just to keep the status quo going for a little while longer. The civil society is anemic and weak.

No, believing is not the same as educated hope at least as far as I can see it.

Well our public should be well informed given our high education standards and international results, but I wonder if our standards have dropped these past few years.  Too much blind faith in politicians and dubious media reports.  

[Faramir]

On 12/13/2021 at 10:40 AM, OftenWrong said:

So you are doing your part, though not enough. Every state is reporting population decline, especially among first-world nations. There is a lot more to this than just having fun and sex. You are screwing for god and country!!

Well yes, but immigration is not a real solution.  Very few places on the planet have children at replacement rates.

[myata]

17 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

our high education standards and international results, but I wonder if our standards have dropped these past few years.  Too much blind faith in politicians and dubious media reports.  

There's no contradiction, one is "the report" and the other, "the result". One may think and hope but no one promised that they will be the same. For them to be the same, or similar, there needs to be an ongoing act, not centuries-long slumber. In 2002 we had a report on how to handle future SARS too.

The bureaucracy running the country does not understand and sees no need to, its problems. It only needs to stitch something quickly to keep the status quo going for a while, then again. Mass immigration has been such a band-aid but for how long?

Edited December 15, 2021 by myata

[G Huxley]

"So you are doing your part, though not enough. Every state is reporting population decline, especially among first-world nations. There is a lot more to this than just having fun and sex. You are screwing for god and country!! "

2 children is a fine number to have. The population should be declining as the world is overpopulated.

[G Huxley]

"It’s not an oxymoron if some of the growth involves removing asphalt from former industrial sites to restore former green fields, retrofitting buildings with insulation, installing wind, solar, geothermal, and deep water cooling, adding green roofs, building hydro plants and mini reactors."

None of that requires growth, except for the bit at the end about building hydro plants and reactors. Why not use the ones we already have?

" We can grow by utilizing existing footprints, using infill developments, and building up, repurposing commercial and office buildings for residential, etc. "

Again back to growth.

We do not need to grow and we should not be growing.

[G Huxley]

"We could grow our population a bit beyond the current number, slowly, if we can do it in the right ways. " - Zeitgeist

And yet the question remains why would you even want to do that?

The answer usually follows, because we are dependent on it for our economic model.

Well that logic is circular. Ultimately it points to one direction: if our economic model is dependent on constant growth, then our economic model is crucially flawed, because endless economic growth is utterly unsustainable in a finite world and is utter contempt for nature itself and all the species and complex evolved webs of life within it.

If you want to increase the population slightly, then where does it stop? Even if you are increasing the population slightly (which again begs the question why increase population at all) over enough time even that increase will become utterly massive. So why not stop the increase now and stop kicking the can down the road?

[Faramir]

We are in serious need of a closed border populist.  Sadly the CPC has proven itself to be driven by politically correct issues instead of doing what is best for Canadians.  Instead we will get more of the same with the Turd O family.

[G Huxley]

What ends up happening is that if there is a closed border populist, they almost invariably end up coming from the right and end up with a contradictory trap, because the right tends to depend on economic growth to sustain its economic/political model.

Thus they typically denounce illegal migrants, which make up often only a minute portion of the total number coming in, while still taking in hoards of legal migrants. Edited December 17, 2021 by G Huxley

[Zeitgeist]

Growth is economic activity, which can be environmental clean-up and restoration.  You need a modest level of growth because stagflation and deflation are terminally bad for economies.  People naturally build and produce, even when population growth is flat.  We build and improve on the civilization of our ancestors.  The slow rise in asset and labour value is productivity.  You want a reasonably productive society, but not a burnt out unhappy society where people literally die from work, a phenomenon more common in Asia but not uncommon here.

We have to measure GDP in better ways, accounting for quality of life.  However, we have to be careful that we don’t skew markets by subsidizing unsustainable or inefficient practices.  We do this a lot more than our government admits, including with certain so-called “green” stuff.  We actually face a serious risk of overspending our way to hyperinflation and overtaxing the necessities of life to subsidize dubious initiatives.  

Edited December 18, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[G Huxley]

"Growth is economic activity, which can be environmental clean-up and restoration"

Environmental clean-up and restoration do not require growth.

"You need a modest level of growth because stagflation and deflation are terminally bad for economies. "

Endless growth is terminally bad for economies. It is unsustainable and will ultimately collapse in on itself.

I don't find deflation to be a bad prospect. It increases the value of your savings and wages. I find inflation to be much more abhorrent, which decreases the value of your savings and wages. Inflation and economic growth are tied to the waist.

"People naturally build and produce, even when population growth is flat. We build and improve on the civilization of our ancestors. "

Increasing environmental destruction through endless economic growth is not some sort of progress.

How many Subways and Starbucks in a city block does it take to realize that building endlessly doesn't actually accomplish anything?

"You want a reasonably productive society, but not a burnt out unhappy society where people literally die from work, a phenomenon more common in Asia but not uncommon here. "

Asia is overpopulated, the result of too much growth. We should not be repeating that mistake here.

Having a laid back life dependent on other people to do our work is the sign of a decadent and a collapsing society like ours.

Edited December 18, 2021 by G Huxley