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myata

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Just now, Army Guy said:

Because this is what the government is basing there info off of. It is an official government reporting system. like i have asked before where do you get your numbers from ? educate me please ? 

CDC's are probably the best bet, national and provincial.

They do not quote VAERS data although they probably look at it. 

 

From the Guide to Interpreting VAERS Data on the VAERS website

Quote

 

When evaluating data from VAERS, it is important to note that for any reported event, no cause-and-effect relationship has been established. Reports of all possible associations between vaccines and adverse events (possible side effects) are filed in VAERS. Therefore, VAERS collects data on any adverse event following vaccination, be it coincidental or truly caused by a vaccine. The report of an adverse event to VAERS is not documentation that a vaccine caused the event.

VAERS is a passive reporting system, meaning that reports about adverse events are not automatically collected, but require a report to be filed to VAERS. VAERS reports can be submitted voluntarily by anyone, including healthcare providers, patients, or family members. Reports vary in quality and completeness. They often lack details and sometimes can have information that contains errors.

A report to VAERS generally does not prove that the identified vaccine(s) caused the adverse event described. It only confirms that the reported event occurred sometime after vaccine was given. No proof that the event was caused by the vaccine is required in order for VAERS to accept the report. VAERS accepts all reports without judging whether the event was caused by the vaccine.

 

 

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1 minute ago, TreeBeard said:

I like the Mayo Clinic for COVID information.

As @Goddess says, it is MSM free.  I prefer that too.  

Journals like Nature and Scientific American are some of my favourite sources as well.  They always link back to the peer reviewed papers that they are writing about.

Why would you think I don’t answer questions?  

Go back to all our posts and tell me how many of my questions you replied to, and then tell me how many of your questions i answered practically all of them. And thank you for the source i'll check it out. 

If i was understanding your answer correctly we are crossing off the list of reliable info any federal or provincial government material. or just that pertaining to covid ?

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5 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

The news release from Ichor is pretty short…. 

I actually thought it was really good news.  I mean a large portion of people already have antibodies, without the risks of an experimental vaccine.

But I guess for the "doom & gloom", everybody's gonna die, love to revel in human misery, can't wait to treat others like subhumans crowd like yourself, I can see why none of that would be good news.

Sad, though.

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6 minutes ago, Goddess said:

It's starting to look that way.  Deena Hinshaw got caught inflating numbers, saying people who died of one thing actually died of covid. Other world leaders have also got caught fudging numbers.

She just recently said, that if any child is missing from school without a good reason, they are counted as a covid case.

I mean, really??  WTF

I read about that.  

Did you just quote-mine Hinshaw?

Sorry for the MSM link, but I don’t feel like trying to find Hinshaw actually saying this on YouTube.  Might take me all day.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10034075/Alberta-schools-count-sick-home-COVID-case.html

'Our current framework that does not require mandatory quarantine, does not require close contact tracing, means that the disclosure of individually identifying health information as would happen if individual health notifications happened in schools would be a violation of an individual's privacy.'

'We do have a framework where schools if they see that there are an increased number of children that are ill with respiratory illness, or teachers or staff, they can work with Alberta Health Services.

'In some ways that is adding an additional layer of protection because if individuals choose not to get tested for COVID-19 but are home with an illness they are now counted in the list as being part of that outbreak, and so it's less dependent on needing a test to be part of identifying where there is an issue,'

Hinshaw also said: 'Large scale transmission in schools is not common. Schools are impacted by community transmission but are not locations that drive community transmission outwards.' 

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3 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Go back to all our posts and tell me how many of my questions you replied to, and then tell me how many of your questions i answered practically all of them. And thank you for the source i'll check it out. 

 

If there’s something you’re dying to hear an answer for, let me know.  You can PM me if you’d like and I will go back and respond.

 

Quote

If i was understanding your answer correctly we are crossing off the list of reliable info any federal or provincial government material. or just that pertaining to covid ?

You’re not understanding correctly.

If the Mayo Clinic, or some other source that relies on data from experts, came out today and said America has 25 COVID deaths, not 680,000 then I would have serious doubts about the USA’s COVID death count.  

As it is, I have no evidence that the government info is incorrect.  I tend not to believe the conspiracy sites, or people telling me they know someone at an unnamed hospital who says it’s not so bad.

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5 minutes ago, Aristides said:

CDC's are probably the best bet, national and provincial.

They do not quote VAERS data although they probably look at it. 

 

From the Guide to Interpreting VAERS Data on the VAERS website

 

Look i'm not trying to be a dick here , but there are gapping holes in both sides of this issue and i would like to understand it better. But the link below makes a few statements that i found interesting. This info is reported to come from the CDC, and that info was collected via VAERS

Quote

 

Data released today by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) included 463,457 reports of injuries and deaths, across all age groups, following COVID vaccines — an increase of more than 25,000 compared with the previous week.

The data comes directly from reports submitted to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), the primary government-funded system for reporting adverse vaccine reactions in the U.S.

 

Data released today by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) included 463,457 reports of injuries and deaths, across all age groups, following COVID vaccines — an increase of more than 25,000 compared with the previous week.

The data comes directly from reports submitted to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), the primary government-funded system for reporting adverse vaccine reactions in the U.S.

Every Friday, VAERS makes public all vaccine injury reports received as of a specified date, usually about a week prior to the release date. Reports submitted to VAERS require further investigation before a causal relationship can be confirmed.

Data released today show that between Dec. 14, 2020 and July 9, 2021, a total of 463,457 total adverse events were reported to VAERS, including 10,991 deaths — an increase of 1,943 over the previous week. There were 48,385 serious injuries reported during the same time period — up 7,370 compared with the previous week.

Of the 10,991 deaths reported as of July 9, 22% occurred within 48 hours of vaccination, 15% occurred within 24 hours and 37% occurred in people who became ill within 48 hours of being vaccinated.

This week’s data for 12- to 17-year-olds show:

  • 14,003 total adverse events, including 866 rated as serious and 14 reported deaths. Two of the nine deaths were suicides.
  • The most recent reported death includes a 13-year-old boy (VAERS I.D. 1431289) with a previous history of COVID who suffered cardiac arrest and died 17 days after vaccination with Pfizer.

Other reports include two 13-year-old boys (VAERS I.D. 1406840 and 1429457) who died two days after receiving a Pfizer vaccine, three 15-year-olds (VAERS I.D. 1187918, 1382906 and 1242573), three 16-year-olds (VAERS I.D. 1420630, 1225942 and 1386841) and three 17-year-olds (VAERS I.D. 1199455, 1388042 and 1420762).

 

Nearly 11,000 Deaths After COVID Vaccines Reported to CDC, as FDA Adds New Warning to J&J Vaccine – The Burning Platform

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2 minutes ago, myata said:

Another misconception (or l-word?) that "lockdowns" in Scandinavian countries were the same or even happened at all. Some people would just say something or anything in the hope that it would never be checked or questioned.

I asked in another thread how the restrictions in Finland differed from Canada’s but no one responded.  I offered the link to the Finnish government’s website explaining what they were.  They looked very similar to Canada.  

 

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5 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

You’re not understanding correctly.

If the Mayo Clinic, or some other source that relies on data from experts, came out today and said America has 25 COVID deaths, not 680,000 then I would have serious doubts about the USA’s COVID death count.  

As it is, I have no evidence that the government info is incorrect.  I tend not to believe the conspiracy sites, or people telling me they know someone at an unnamed hospital who says it’s not so bad.

With the exception of the VAER  reports or maybe it is just your colleagues here , that have that issues, i say this because the government does use this info for their own reports, and if one is tainted they all are tainted. 

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5 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

With the exception of the VAER  reports or maybe it is just your colleagues here , that have that issues, i say this because the government does use this info for their own reports, and if one is tainted they all are tainted. 

If you don’t believe the other government sources about the Virus and things like cases and deaths, why do you believe the VAERS reports produced by CDC?

Colleagues?  

Edited by TreeBeard
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6 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Look i'm not trying to be a dick here , but there are gapping holes in both sides of this issue and i would like to understand it better. But the link below makes a few statements that i found interesting. This info is reported to come from the CDC, and that info was collected via VAERS

Data released today by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) included 463,457 reports of injuries and deaths, across all age groups, following COVID vaccines — an increase of more than 25,000 compared with the previous week.

The data comes directly from reports submitted to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), the primary government-funded system for reporting adverse vaccine reactions in the U.S.

Every Friday, VAERS makes public all vaccine injury reports received as of a specified date, usually about a week prior to the release date. Reports submitted to VAERS require further investigation before a causal relationship can be confirmed.

042 and 1420762).

 

Nearly 11,000 Deaths After COVID Vaccines Reported to CDC, as FDA Adds New Warning to J&J Vaccine – The Burning Platform

It says there were 463,475 "reports". That doesn't mean the actually happened or that they were caused by vaccines.

Quote

Reports submitted to VAERS require further investigation before a causal relationship can be confirmed.

 

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Just now, TreeBeard said:

If you don’t believe the other government sources about the Virus and things like cases and deaths, why do you believe the VAERS reports produced by CDC?

I did not say CDC was producing VAERS reports but basing their info on them. They also report the number of deaths that are linked back to the vaccination within 24 to 48 hours to be exact. and while they are a small percentages of the total population they are a large number that could explain why some of the vaccine hesitation. 

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2 minutes ago, Aristides said:

It says there were 463,475 "reports". That doesn't mean the actually happened or that they were caused by vaccines.

 

Yes it does, the reports include everything minor like redness reported around the injection site or bruising, sore arm etc.  they track everything, and it becomes a report and sent up through VAERS. and while most are these minor reports really people just whining, but they also reported deaths within 24 to 48 hours thats not a minor report, and all these deaths are attributed to the vaccine and all the known side effects it can cause...

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1 hour ago, Boges said:

The Anti-Vax Anti Public Health people don't really deal in facts. 

It's easy to dismiss policy when you outright reject what is true. 

When everything is a conspiracy, then nothing is true. 

 

51 minutes ago, Boges said:

Anti-Vaxxers will have you believe that the vaccines cause way more "unspecific" serious vaccine. 

They really are a scourge on society. 

I'll admit I just hopped back on this forum recently after an extended leave, and I haven't really had time to gauge the temperature of opinions here.  but I just want to push back here a bit in the interest of honesty and rationality.

I'm not sure what you define as "antivaxxer" or what segment of the population you are referring to in this clearly derogatory way, so it's difficult for me to judge exactly who you are so hostile towards.  But I will just submit that there is a significant segment of the population who don't fully trust the vaccine but who are articulate, educated, and go to great effort to "deal in the facts"...and are very pro-vaccine, just not this one.  If you are referring to this group as "a scourge on society", "flat earthers", and "conspiracy theorists", then I really think you are doing your argument, and your position a disservice. 

If I am misunderstanding the intended target or your vitriol, apologies.  I just hate the underhanded tactics that some are using to bully and insult their way through an argument that would be better served with civil discourse.  The sooner we stop fighting each other and throwing up strawmen, the sooner we can infuse some objectivity into the debate.

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BS of course what else? Restrictions apply mostly for traveling and some in the early phase, mass public spaces like museums and libraries while businesses never closed. Sure sounds very much like Canada with three total shutdowns and exzperts crying and jumping let's have more! every time numbers twitch. Stretching information to the max under thin guise of "we looked". Like four meaningless categories out of five. Like suddenly skewed ICU stats. L...rs, l...rs.

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3 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

I did not say CDC was producing VAERS reports but basing their info on them. They also report the number of deaths that are linked back to the vaccination within 24 to 48 hours to be exact.

CDC runs VAERS.  Why do you believe the VAERS numbers?

Quote

and while they are a small percentages of the total population they are a large number that could explain why some of the vaccine hesitation. 

Let’s assume every report is true in VAERS.

How do vaccine deaths compare to COVID deaths?  Some simple math should tell you which is safer, getting the vaccine, or not, correct?

Oh wait….   You don’t believe the COVID death numbers, do you?  

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7 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Yes it does, the reports include everything minor like redness reported around the injection site or bruising, sore arm etc.  they track everything, and it becomes a report and sent up through VAERS. and while most are these minor reports really people just whining, but they also reported deaths within 24 to 48 hours thats not a minor report, and all these deaths are attributed to the vaccine and all the known side effects it can cause...

It's a report, a report that can be made by anyone including people trying to bias the data, not a confirmation that anything happened. I posted the VAERS disclaimer, it's pretty obvious that most of those who rushed to quote VAERS have never even looked at the site.

Edited by Aristides
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6 minutes ago, Aristides said:

It's a report, a report that can be made by anyone including people trying to bias the data, not a confirmation that anything happened. I posted the VAERS disclaimer, it's pretty obvious that most of those who rushed to quote VAERS have never even looked at the site.

Now that they know VAERS is run by the CDC, do you think they will claim the CDC is not releasing all the data?  That there are obviously way more deaths by vaccine?  

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23 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Now that they know VAERS is run by the CDC, do you think they will claim the CDC is not releasing all the data?  That there are obviously way more deaths by vaccine?  

I think most of the VAERS reports are made in good faith but they are still unverified. We also don't know what proportion were made by medical professionals and how many were made by individuals with no medical experience.

Of course, many could also be coming from operators in Moscow and Beijing.

Edited by Aristides
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17 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Now that they know VAERS is run by the CDC, do you think they will claim the CDC is not releasing all the data?  That there are obviously way more deaths by vaccine?  

There are enough deaths and life-altering adverse reactions that this vaccine should have been pulled a long time ago.

There are enough deaths from it and adverse reactions that people should decide for themselves whether the risks (for themself only) are worth it.

For instance, a morbidly obese person in their 30's with hypertension may decide that the risk of dying from covid is more than the risks from getting the vax.

Another person in their 30's, who has taken care of their health and has no comorbidities may decide that the risks of taking the vaccine are more than the risks of catching and recovering from covid, plus they then have natural immunity.

This is why it should be each person's choice. No one should be forced.

A choice is like "Do you want tea or coffee?"

NOT

"Do you want to be part of an experimental vaccine or lose your job?"

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The way I feel now, after interacting with militant vaxxers, is I'm even more hesitant.

If there was some responsibility being taken by governments and Big Pharma for the trauma they are inflicting, maybe I would be less hesitant.

But why should I be forced to take an experimental vaccine that may possibly kill me or lead to convulsions so bad I can no longer work and get nothing for it?

The people who have been harmed by this and experienced convulsions and other adverse effects to the point they can no longer work have yet to see a dime from the so-called "Vaccine Injury Fund".  And they are getting more and more vocal, frustrated and desperate.  They feel completely abandoned.  But of course, you barely hear a peep from the media about them.

It's been over 3 months, nearly 4 for my sister.  She is still barely able to work because of debilitating headaches, dizziness, general lethargy, etc.  If it weren't for me, she'd be bankrupt now.  If I take the vax and get the same adverse reactions, then what do we do?  Not one of you cares about people like us.

Edited by Goddess
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