Is Trudeau's and Liberal's relationship with the Vatican hindering uncovering the truth?

[blackbird]

Trudeau just announced the Catholic church should accept responsibility for the residential school disaster but said he doesn't want to go to court to force them to release records.   Why not?   If he is sincere, he should use the tools the government has to obtain the records of residential schools to determine what happened in the former residential schools and what happened to the children that died and were buried on the grounds.  These tools include taking them to court to force them to release the documents.  Why doesn't he?  Could it be because he and many Liberals are Catholics?  Is that a conflict of interest in this issue?

The U.N. has called for an investigation into what actually happened at the residential schools.  How is this possible without obtaining the records?

PS   Does anyone know why the title does not appear in bold as other titles do?

Edited June 4, 2021 by blackbird

[OftenWrong]

17 hours ago, blackbird said:

Trudeau just announced the Catholic church should accept responsibility for the residential school disaster but said he doesn't want to go to court to force them to release records.   Why not?

Because the records will show the Canadian government's own complicity.

[dialamah]

12 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Because the records will show the Canadian government's own complicity.

Not a problem; governments routinely blame things on previous governments.   It's more likely, imo, that Trudeau, being a Catholic,  doesn't want his Church to look bad.

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

Not a problem; governments routinely blame things on previous governments.   It's more likely, imo, that Trudeau, being a Catholic,  doesn't want his Church to look bad.

The Pope is the highest authority in the RC church and could theoretically pronounce excommunication on anyone he wishes.  There is always that fear hanging over any Catholic in a powerful position who takes on the church.  Seems to me it happened to Henry VIII and probably many others.

[Zeitgeist]

It’s a massive organization with people with problems like all large organizations.  There is concrete evidence of past apologies and I’m not sure there’s evidence of the Church holding back evidence.  If there’s any resistance to sharing, it should be subpoenaed.  The government can subpoena evidence related to criminal acts.  

[blackbird]

It was revealing that the Toronto Archbishop (Cardinal) in Ontario rejected Trudeau's comments on the news today as unfair.  Trudeau had said the Pope should apologize and the Catholic church should release records.  The Archbishop responded that apologies have already been made at various times and by different levels of authority in the church.  He said some records have already been released in different places.   So who are we to believe?   I have a feeling neither one are really as knowledgeable as they imply on the subject.  Trudeau could not possibly be an expert on residential schools and what happened in them.  He is a politician with a thousand other issues on his lap and is heavily influenced by the issue of being sure he is re-elected.  The Archbishop holds the responsibility of defending and protecting the Catholic church so will be coming at it from that angle.  So can we really expect either one of them to be able to contribute much to finding resolution to this issue?  I don't see the RCMP as the correct organization to investigate or be involved in investigating the buried children.  This should be led mainly by aboriginal people themselves with others participating as observers.

Edited June 7, 2021 by blackbird

[Zeitgeist]

8 hours ago, blackbird said:

It was revealing that the Archbishop in Ontario rejected Trudeau's comments on the news today.  Trudeau had said the Pope should apologize and the Catholic church should release records.  The Archbishop responded that apologies have already been made at various times and by different levels of authority in the church.  He said some records have already been released in different places.   So who are we to believe?   I have a feeling neither one are really as knowledgeable as they imply on the subject.  Trudeau could not possible be an expert on residential schools and what happened in them.  He is a politician with a thousand other issues on his lap and is heavily influenced by the issue of being sure he is re-elected.  The Archbishop holds the responsibility of defending and protecting the Catholic church so will be coming at it from that angle.  So can we really expect either one of them to be able to contribute much to finding resolution to this issue?  I don't see the RCMP as the correct organization to investigate or be involved in investigating the buried children.  This should be led mainly by aboriginal people themselves with others participating as observers.

But if the answers to their inquiry become a grab bag of unrelated asks just like many of the TRC resolutions (e.g. universal basic income), then the inquisitors will appear to have a hidden agenda and be making a cash grab.  It’s happened in the past so there are reasons to be cynical, even though significant hurts must be addressed.  We’ll see.  

Edited June 7, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[blackbird]

23 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

It’s a massive organization with people with problems like all large organizations.  There is concrete evidence of past apologies and I’m not sure there’s evidence of the Church holding back evidence.  If there’s any resistance to sharing, it should be subpoenaed.  The government can subpoena evidence related to criminal acts.  

Yes.   The resistance of the Catholic church to accusations of sexual abuse are well known as they have paid hundreds of millions of dollars in settlements in countless legal cases in various countries.  Since settlements could amount to staggering amounts of money, we can expect they will resist.  Some of the people involved in the residential schools are also reportedly still alive.  The minister of aboriginal affairs talks about the possibility of subpoena use but so far seems reluctant to act.  

I am not holding my breath to see this settled in my lifetime.  This will likely drag on forever in some form.  We shouldn't expect to see it resolved anytime soon.

Edited June 6, 2021 by blackbird

[blackbird]

The residential schools were run by the government and the church (60% by the Catholic) church in complicity and many of the politicians are members of the church.  So we shouldn't expect that either of them will be willing to bring everything that happened into the light in totality.  It's just not going to happen.

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

Trudeau could not possible be an expert on residential schools and what happened in them. 

He should know. His father was the Prime Minister during the time when these schools were running.

Mr. Trudeau has expressed his sympathy for the plight of natives.

[cougar]

On 6/4/2021 at 12:06 PM, blackbird said:

Trudeau just announced the Catholic church should accept responsibility for the residential school disaster but said he doesn't want to go to court to force them to release records.   Why not? 

 

I would think those children must have been accounted for in one system or another.  The fact 200+ of them vanished in one school alone and this doesn't register on the government's radar, tells you it wasn't just the church.

Questions I have are

Were they killed in one execution style event, or were killed over a prolonged period of time.

Who killed them and how and who buried them?

These questions shouldn't be too difficult to answer, as we are not dealing with the remains of humans from prehistoric times.

Same crimes continue today under the current government.  If not against humans (n this extent), they are done against wildlife, forests and the environment.

Edited June 6, 2021 by cougar

[dialamah]

16 minutes ago, cougar said:

I would think those children must have been accounted for in one system or another.  The fact 200+ of them vanished in one school alone and this doesn't register on the government's radar, tells you it wasn't just the church.

Questions I have are

Were they killed in one execution style event, or were killed over a prolonged period of time.

Who killed them and how and who buried them?

These questions shouldn't be too difficult to answer, as we are not dealing with the remains of humans from prehistoric times.

No, these questions are not difficult to answer.  A simple search would give you the answers.  

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/residential-school-graves-alberta-1.6046329

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/05/canada-indigenous-residential-schools-first-nations-children

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/newly-discovered-b-c-graves-a-grim-reminder-of-the-heartbreaking-death-toll-of-residential-schools

Plenty is already known about how and why these kids died, and just how culpable the government/church authorities were, and still are.

[blackbird]

CTV just interviewed the famous lawyer, Mitchel Garabedian from Garabedian Law, who was involved in many cases against the Catholic church over many years.  He said the government has to act right now to legally obtain the records and documents around the residential school issue before they disappear.  Trudeau and Marc Miller, the indigenous affairs minister, have expressed reluctance to use the subpeona to obtain the documents.  Makes one wonder what the reason for not doing anything might be.  Trudeau is great at talk and virtue signaling, but very reluctant to take action.

[Zeitgeist]

4 hours ago, cougar said:

I would think those children must have been accounted for in one system or another.  The fact 200+ of them vanished in one school alone and this doesn't register on the government's radar, tells you it wasn't just the church.

Questions I have are

Were they killed in one execution style event, or were killed over a prolonged period of time.

Who killed them and how and who buried them?

These questions shouldn't be too difficult to answer, as we are not dealing with the remains of humans from prehistoric times.

Same crimes continue today under the current government.  If not against humans (n this extent), they are done against wildlife, forests and the environment.

“Execution”?   Are you for real?  This is a problem, people not understanding that if thousands of children lived together a century ago, given the state of medicine, work, and living conditions at that time, children would die at a rate we’d find shocking today.

[cougar]

24 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

“Execution”?   Are you for real?  This is a problem, people not understanding that if thousands of children lived together a century ago, given the state of medicine, work, and living conditions at that time, children would die at a rate we’d find shocking today.

And conveniently they were put in unmarked graves like their names were not known or not supposed to be known.

Yep,  just like the holocaust, this is what I envision.

[blackbird]

5 hours ago, cougar said:

I would think those children must have been accounted for in one system or another.  The fact 200+ of them vanished in one school alone and this doesn't register on the government's radar, tells you it wasn't just the church.

Questions I have are

Were they killed in one execution style event, or were killed over a prolonged period of time.

Who killed them and how and who buried them?

These questions shouldn't be too difficult to answer, as we are not dealing with the remains of humans from prehistoric times.

Same crimes continue today under the current government.  If not against humans (n this extent), they are done against wildlife, forests and the environment.

I don't think they were murdered.  This school was run over many decades but there could have been an average of five deaths a year over a fifty year period due to diseases such as TB, polio, chicken pox, etc., malnutrition or neglect if they were not fed properly, and possibly some other causes.

[cannuck]

The Catholic cult should be the first to be forced to PAY any and all costs up to their percentage of participation, followed proportionally by other denominations.  Yes, it is possible that deaths were "natural" but not likely with those numbers that there is any excuse for the lack of accountability.   As has been mentioned: there was obviously some record of who was taken TO the schools, so strongly suspect same exist(ed?) for those who did and did not make it out.

Also: you want to believe that the Little Tur....uh....um...TRUdeau is covering for his cult.   He is not exactly the sharpest tack in the box, and just exactly what the cult leaders count on.

Edited June 7, 2021 by cannuck

[Nefarious Banana]

7 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

 

Smug prick.

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, cougar said:

And conveniently they were put in unmarked graves like their names were not known or not supposed to be known.

Yep,  just like the holocaust, this is what I envision.

Not like the Holocaust, where meticulous records were kept of prisoners who were intentionally murdered with the top-down state-sanctioned “final solution” to kill off an entire race of people.  

[OftenWrong]

11 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said:

 

Yes. We know how much Mr. Trudeau enjoys a costume. It's the sardonic grin that gives it away.

It is said that when Mr. Trudeau wears his blackface, he also likes to paint it underneath his clothes.  

 

[blackbird]

Just reported on the news this morning that the federal government destroyed records from the residential schools.  Some records were viewed or obtained by the CBC, but it appears only certain records will ever be found or revealed.  Looks like the government and church were working in collusion to cover up.  It is doubtful the whole truth will ever be known, especially when we have a government that wants to keep the history covered up and concentrate on image and virtue signaling.

Edited June 7, 2021 by blackbird