Vaccine Passports

[Infidel Dog]

The corporate left has offered some twisted whispers about this and Fox has actually talked about it, but Vaccine passports are something that needs to be shouted against from the rooftops. Naomi Wolf explains why:

Hum your way past allowing Vaccine Passports and you're owned meat. You go nowhere or do nothing without China and your big corporate brother knowing about it then punishing you if they disapprove. Trudeau will OK this in a minute. You've been warned.

[Michael Hardner]

"Sick people please stay outdoors of our establishment"

[Infidel Dog]

Currently when you sign on to an internet service you sign an agreement on whether or not you agree to that company's terms of service. You get to decide when you log on to TD bank or when you log on to Paypal. You're not walking around your daily life logged on to a credit score. You're in control. With the vaccine passports none of that will be the case. 

Everyone has to be participating all the time. If you don't participate you don't get into the supermarket to buy groceries. You don't get to meet with friends in public. You can't travel. 

Basically it's the Chinese social credit system they have for controlling their populace. In fact the Chinese will eventually be able to hook into the system. They control interest in many of the services that want to connect.

And My God...will you dummies never learn to view the source rather than just come in strutting like you know all about it. It's no fun. You make it too easy to rebut your ignorance.

 

 

[Infidel Dog]

In fact here's the one that made me want to connect to the one above.

It starts like this:

"Vaccine passport sounds like a fine thing if you don't understand what those passports can do.  It's not about a vaccine. It's not about the virus. It's about your data, and once this rolls out you don't have a choice about being part of the sysem."

 

[Boges]

I'm not sure I'm down with Vaccine Passports for basic services like going into a Grocery Store. 

But if a country wants proof of vaccination before entering its borders, that's fair game. 

You used to be able to enter the US with simple ID, now you almost certainly need a passport. I don't see what the difference is. 

I'm almost certain, by the end of the year, all international travel will require proof of vaccination. 

I also think access to Public Services like Public Education will require a vaccine once it's available to School Age Children. Just like the case with the MMR vaccine. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Boges

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

1. I'm not sure I'm down with Vaccine Passports for basic services like going into a Grocery Store. 

2. But if a country wants proof of vaccination before entering its borders, that's fair game. 

3. You used to be able to enter the US with simple ID, now you almost certainly need a passport. I don't see what the difference is. 

4. I also think access to Public Services like Public Education will require a vaccine once it's available to School Age Children. Just like the case with the MMR vaccine. 

1. The great thing about a free society is you don't have to enter that store.
2. Agreed.
3. Passport application is more stringent and says you are a citizen of Canada.
4. We are getting more and more involved in each others' lives, which I agree is a flavour of nightmare.

[Infidel Dog]

Who said it was just about stores, or passports or social interaction?

Did you even listen? Ultimately it's about the great "THEY" taking control of everything you say and do for as long THEY allows you to say and do it.

Vaccine Passports open the door to a Chinese Communist style "social credit system." Where things go from there, who knows?

Quote

The great majority of Chinese pay for consumer goods and services using smartphone apps or their faces, via facial recognition technology. These provide consumer convenience and security, making life easier for ordinary people. They also generate an enormous amount of personal data about each Chinese individual, all of which the government tracks.

The state has other uses for facial recognition technology. Television cameras are ubiquitous on Chinese streets, recording the daily comings and goings of the nation’s people. Beijing’s software is so advanced that it can easily check facial scans against the central security database. If a citizen enters an area forbidden to him—a church, say—or even if a person is merely walking in the opposite direction of a crowd, the system automatically records it and alerts the police.

In theory, police don’t have to show up at the suspect’s door to make him pay for his disobedience. China’s social credit system automatically tracks the words and actions, online and off, of every Chinese citizen, and grants rewards or demerits based on obedience. A Chinese who does something socially positive—helping an elderly neighbor with a chore, or listening to a speech of leader Xi Jinping—receives points toward a higher social credit score. On the other hand, one who does something negative—letting his or her dog poop on the sidewalk, for example, or making a snarky comment on social media—suffers a social-credit downgrade.

Because digital life, including commercial transactions, is automatically monitored, Chinese with high social credit ratings gain privileges. Those with lower scores find daily life harder. They aren’t allowed to buy high speed train tickets or take flights. Doors close to certain restaurants. Their children may not be allowed to go to college. They may lose their job and have a difficult time finding a new one. And a social-credit scofflaw will find himself isolated, as the algorithmic system downgrades those who are connected to the offender.

The bottom line: a Chinese citizen cannot participate in the economy or society unless he has the mark of approval from Xi Jinping, the country’s all-powerful leader. In a cashless society, the state has the power to bankrupt dissidents instantly by cutting off access to the internet. And in a society in which everyone is connected digitally, the state can make anyone an instant pariah when the algorithm turns them radioactive, even to their family.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/live-not-by-lies-the-coming-social-credit-system/

Once this system is in place it's only a question of how hard they want to use it.

I get it though. You think Vaccine passports will only be used for vaccines and once the Chi-Comm virus is under control they will vanish. 

I imagine there were also believers back in the 19th century when they were told there was this thing coming called income tax but it was OK because it was just temporary.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Infidel Dog

[Michael Hardner]

I don't recognize that source, so I will give it a pass.  The technology or the start-up complexity is not a barrier to a Chinese social-credit system, the politics are.

As it is, there is a valid reason for vaccine passports.   When they decide to introduce "social cohesion" credits or something terrifying, nobody will listen to the alarmists who yell at everything, from the left or the right.

[Infidel Dog]

So I think you're saying you don't like my source so China's social credit system doesn't exist.

Very well. How about Wikipedia then? Last I heard you guys liked Wikipedia.

Quote

The social credit initiative calls for the establishments of unified record system for individuals, businesses and the government to be tracked and evaluated for trustworthiness.^{[12][13][14][15]} Initial reports suggested that the system utilized numerical score as the reward and punishment mechanism;^[16][15] recent reports suggest there are in fact multiple, different forms of the social credit system being experimented with.^[17][18] Numerical system has been implemented only in several regional pilot programs, while the nationwide regulatory method has been based primarily on blacklisting and whitelisting.^[5][17][19] The credit system is closely related to China's mass surveillance systems such as Skynet,^[20][21][22] which incorporates facial recognition system, big data analysis technology, AI and Project Maven.^{[23][24][16][25][26]}

By 2018, some restrictions had been placed on citizens which state-owned media described as the first step toward creating a nationwide social credit system.^{[27][28][29][10][30][31]} As of November 2019, in addition to dishonest and fraudulent financial behavior, other behavior that some cities have officially listed as negative factors of credit ratings includes playing loud music or eating in rapid transits,^[32] violating traffic rules such as jaywalking and red-light violations,^[33][34] making reservations at restaurants or hotels but not showing up,^[35] failing to correctly sort personal waste,^[36][37][38] fraudulently using other people's public transportation ID cards,^[39] smoking violations^[40] etc; on the other hand, behavior listed as positive factors of credit ratings includes donating blood, donating to charity, volunteering for community services, praising government efforts on social media, and so on.^[41][42][43]

As of June 2019, according to the National Development and Reform Commission of China, 27 million air tickets as well as 6 million high-speed rail tickets had been denied to people who were deemed "untrustworthy (失信)" (on a blacklist), and 4.4 million "untrustworthy" people had chosen to fulfill their duties required by the law.^[44][45] In general, it takes 2–5 years to be removed from the blacklist, but early removal is also possible if the blacklisted person has done enough remedies.^[46][47] Certain personal information of the blacklisted people is deliberately made accessible to the society and is displayed online as well as at various public venues such as movie theaters and buses,^{[47][48][49][50]} while some cities have also banned children of "untrustworthy" residents from attending private schools and even universities.^{[51][52][53][54][55]} On the other hand, people with high credit ratings may receive rewards such as less waiting time at hospitals and governmental agencies, discounts at hotels, greater likelihood of receiving employment offers and so on.^{[39][41][42][56]}

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System

[Infidel Dog]

Once you've allowed vaccine passports you have allowed a social credit system.

The only question becomes what do "THEY" do with it.

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

1. So I think you're saying you don't like my source so China's social credit system doesn't exist.

2. Very well. How about Wikipedia then? Last I heard you guys liked Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System

1. No.  You're bad at logic.  I already heard of this system a long time ago.
2. What "guys" am I ? ?

[Infidel Dog]

The "see no evil, hear no evil" as soon as China is mentioned kind of guy.

For example if a source tells you something you say you already know why do you dismiss it?

Edited April 8, 2021 by Infidel Dog

[Michael Hardner]

55 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

1. The "see no evil, hear no evil" as soon as China is mentioned kind of guy.

2. For example if a source tells you something you say you already know why do you dismiss it?

1. Riight... I love China ... probably because I think Trump is an idiot.  Checks out.
2. Why do I dismiss the source ?  Because there are a lot of liars out there and I can usually recognize them by their URLs... I have a lot of good conservative sources I can go to for information already.

[Infidel Dog]

Hey, speaking of China and seeing as you don't seem that interested in the actual topic now that it's not going your way, I just saw something interesting at another source you'd no doubt like to pretend virtue by ignoring.

It will be interesting to any who don't, as you say, "love China." It's a Canadian story that insinuates conspiracy. The American media of the Right has picked it up. Our media lost interest in it when it started to look like Xi's boys were involved:

What Is China Really up to on Canadian Soil? A Woman's Brutal Murder Sheds Light on a Cult and a Disturbing Chinese Spy Network

One hears enough of these stories and wonders if it's a good idea to allow companies the Chi-Comms "connect" to, to have access to Canadian "Vaccine Passport" info. Apparently there's reason to believe that might happen.

 

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Infidel Dog

[Aristides]

On 4/7/2021 at 12:45 PM, Infidel Dog said:

In fact here's the one that made me want to connect to the one above.

It starts like this:

"Vaccine passport sounds like a fine thing if you don't understand what those passports can do.  It's not about a vaccine. It's not about the virus. It's about your data, and once this rolls out you don't have a choice about being part of the sysem."

 

Why would you be giving anyone your data by just showing proof you have been vaccinated?

[dialamah]

37 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Why would you be giving anyone your data by just showing proof you have been vaccinated?

Aren't vaccine cards automatically given to parents to track their kids' vaccinations?   Looked on a website, and same thing is available to adults, didn't seem very intrusive.  That could be a "vaccine passport".

Does anyone posting their concerns about a vaccination passport not have a cell phone?   Cause if you are worried about your privacy, maybe get rid of your phone. 

[Infidel Dog]

The Vaccine passport is a thing that's coming. Not a thing that's here.

It requires a federal vaccine database (who know, maybe global).

The fear is more what it can become. You don't get refused travel or your kids don't get refused entrance into better schools because of cell phones. They might tell you to turn them off is the worse that might happen their.

If the vaccine passport comes you won't be able to turn it off.

Quote

The governors of Texas and Florida have both signed executive orders banning so-called "vaccine passports" or any kind of requirement by local governments or businesses.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/06/politics/what-matters-vaccine-passports/index.html

Edited April 8, 2021 by Infidel Dog

[Infidel Dog]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

Why would you be giving anyone your data by just showing proof you have been vaccinated?

Whether or not you got the shot is data.

More importantly it's proof of concept that people will accept a social credit system. Then it can grow. 

China didn't just jump into it. It came in steps.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said:

 It requires a federal vaccine database (who know, maybe global).

Correction: It requires a 1-bit column in an existing provincial database.  ie. nothing.

If you live in Ontario, there is something called eHealth.  Google it !

[Infidel Dog]

Not the same thing.

The vaccine passport conspiracy would rely on a federal database from which consequences could be issued for not belonging.

What's missing in eHealth are the consequences. They're not asking for your eHealth card at the neighborhood pub or restaurant to see whether or not it's OK to seat you.

 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said:

Not the same thing.

1. The vaccine passport conspiracy would rely on a federal database from which consequences could be issued for not belonging.

2. What's missing in eHealth are the consequences. They're not asking for your eHealth card at the neighborhood pub or restaurant to see whether or not it's OK to seat you.

 

1. Why is a federal database more insidious than a provincial one?  And you are already in more federal databases than you could think of anyway.

2. It seems like you are moving away from the threat of this expanding out to a Chinese social credit system now.  Ok, we're back to how people are treated for their vaccination status... I can have a business where I don't let people in whi have had chicken pox if I like.  It's not a viable model, but if people are concerned about getting chicken pox then it could be.

[Infidel Dog]

It's not just a federal database. It's a federal database with threat, punishment and reward.

The Americans are most vocal against this and that's understandable. They're the last bastion of any sort of freedom in the West. 

So imagine this. The Joe-Ho regime get their Vaccine passport system. Resistance is minimal. Joe's having problems getting people on board with a gun return system. So the word comes down from above "OK Joe hook it into the VPS.:

From there it's China 2. And forget about Canada, by that time we'd already be hooked up. Most of Europe too most likely.

So what's possible from there. Worse than Orwell's worse nightmare would be my guess.

As to your #2 that's just wishful thinking on your part.

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said:

The Americans are most vocal against this and that's understandable. They're the last bastion of any sort of freedom in the West. 

Democracy index:  This is a report from the The Economist, which rates countries based on the following 5 factors:   

1) Electoral process and pluralism;
2) Civil liberties;
3) Functioning of the government;
4) Political participation; and
5) Political culture

Canada came in 6th, the US 25th.

Freedom House rated Canada 98% free (out of a possible score of 100% free), and the United States 83% free - among the worst of the "West".

The Human Freedom index rates Canada #4, and the United States at 15; to determine scores, they consider:

1. Rule of Law
2. Security and Safety
3. Identity and Relationships
4. Size of Government
5. Legal System and Property Rights
6. Access to Sound Money
7. Freedom to Trade Internationally
8. Expression and Information
9. Religion
10. Movement
11. Association, Assembly, and Civil Society

There's more indexes and rankings to be found, but I didn't find a single one that puts the US ahead of Canada, or even very close to the top.  The US is  consistently achieves the lowest score among the Western nations.

As much as the US advertises about how "free" it is, less boastful nations are actually more democratic and their citizens have more freedoms and security.  Perhaps being allowed to tote a gun around isn't really the definition of 'freedom', hmm?

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said:

The Joe-Ho regime get their Vaccine passport system. Resistance is minimal. Joe's having problems getting people on board with a gun return system. So the word comes down from above "OK Joe hook it into the VPS.:

They could do that now with driver's licences, social welfare payments, income tax increases on resistors; heck, they could even 'suspend' social insurance numbers, taking away someone's ability to work. 

There's any number of ways the government could "force" Canadians to do stuff using some kind of stick - vaccine passport is not needed.

Edited April 9, 2021 by dialamah

[Aristides]

17 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

Not the same thing.

The vaccine passport conspiracy would rely on a federal database from which consequences could be issued for not belonging.

What's missing in eHealth are the consequences. They're not asking for your eHealth card at the neighborhood pub or restaurant to see whether or not it's OK to seat you.

 

 

What do you think your social insurance number is? Do you vote? You will be required to provide proof of vaccination to do certain things, get used to it. You will definitely need one for international travel. There has been an international certificate of vaccinations for many decades, issued by federal governments. They are the best way to do it without people falsifying their vaccination history.

 

Edited April 10, 2021 by Aristides