Federal government creating inventory of racial minorities.

[WestCanMan]

7 hours ago, marcus said:

Share where in our immigration system, there is any favour towards people who are applying from Muslim countries.

I work in the immigration and you are spreading misinformation again.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3875716/syrian-refugees-gaps-screening-canada/

Quote

The Canada Border Services Agency audit found that changes to screening procedures for Operation Syrian Refugee “introduced some gaps in the security screening process.”

 

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/malcolm-the-b-c-murder-and-trudeaus-rushed-refugee-vetting

Quote

Ali came to Canada as one of 40,000 Syrian refugees admitted through Trudeau’s elaborate PR stunt, which saw the government skip important security steps, bypass integration programs, and overwhelm refugee resettlement agencies, all in pursuit of achieving Trudeau’s naive 2015 election campaign pledge.

it took me two minutes to prove you're the one spreading misinformation.

How can you possibly work in immigration services and not be aware of this?

Ensuring the safety of Canadians is one of the main jobs of that department. We don't even bring people here from Australia without vetting them, and Australia doesn't have a terrorist population that's large enough to overwhelm their government.

[Argus]

15 hours ago, marcus said:

Share where in our immigration system, there is any favour towards people who are applying from Muslim countries.

I work in the immigration and you are spreading misinformation again.

The immigration system is designed to benefit the party in power. It serves almost no other purpose. Because the vast majority of Muslims vote Liberal the Liberals want more Muslims. How do you do that? Well, the system is deliberately opaque, of course. But in reality the number of immigrants we get from certain areas of the world is governed by how many immigration visas various visa application centres are granted by the department that year. Thus if you say 1000 people want to immigrate from Ireland but there are only 500 visa applications available there, then that's all that come.

Thus it's easy to decide what parts of the world you want to get more immigrants from by simply granting that area more visas. You and I have discussed this previously so you know very well what I'm talking about.

Edited September 20, 2020 by Argus

[marcus]

On 9/19/2020 at 9:22 AM, WestCanMan said:

https://globalnews.ca/news/3875716/syrian-refugees-gaps-screening-canada/

 

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/malcolm-the-b-c-murder-and-trudeaus-rushed-refugee-vetting

it took me two minutes to prove you're the one spreading misinformation.

How can you possibly work in immigration services and not be aware of this?

Ensuring the safety of Canadians is one of the main jobs of that department. We don't even bring people here from Australia without vetting them, and Australia doesn't have a terrorist population that's large enough to overwhelm their government.

That was a short term decision after the refugee crisis. That has nothing to do with our immigration system and what Argus is alleging in regards to our immigration system favouring Muslim countries.

[marcus]

17 hours ago, Argus said:

The immigration system is designed to benefit the party in power. It serves almost no other purpose. Because the vast majority of Muslims vote Liberal the Liberals want more Muslims. How do you do that? Well, the system is deliberately opaque, of course. But in reality the number of immigrants we get from certain areas of the world is governed by how many immigration visas various visa application centres are granted by the department that year. Thus if you say 1000 people want to immigrate from Ireland but there are only 500 visa applications available there, then that's all that come.

Thus it's easy to decide what parts of the world you want to get more immigrants from by simply granting that area more visas. You and I have discussed this previously so you know very well what I'm talking about.

Our immigration system, for the most part, tries to sell itself as merritt based.

Our most common program, under Express Entry is based on a point system. It depends on your language level, age, education and work experience. Nothing to do with your location.

When it comes to temporary residency (study/visit/work), which can help you to become a permanent resident/citizen, is different. The Irish, for example, do not need to apply to get a visitor visa. They are visa exempt, as are most European countries.

The Irish, and many other European countries also have an option that majority other countries, including muslim countries, do not have. That's called International Experience Canada: An open work permit given to you if you are under 35, and from Europe (and NZ, Australia, Japan and South Korea). Gain 1 year of work experience in Canada and that gives you extra points if you want to apply for permanent residency.

Study permit/visa refusal rates are multiple times higher from those applying from non-european countries.

If anything, it's the western country citizens who have the upper hand and have a better shot at immigrating to Canada. You are spreading misinformation again. I'm not sure if it's on purpose or if you're just ignorant.

The reason why you see more people coming from countries you feel uncomfortable about, is because there are a much larger number of people from those countries that apply and want to move to Canada.

[dialamah]

7 minutes ago, marcus said:

If anything, it's the western country citizens who have the upper hand and have a better shot at immigrating to Canada. You are spreading misinformation again. I'm not sure if it's on purpose or if you're just ignorant.

Its the result of a certain set of beliefs, supported by a refusal to consider any information that doesn't support those beliefs.  Kind of a deliberate ignorance.

[Argus]

17 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Its the result of a certain set of beliefs, supported by a refusal to consider any information that doesn't support those beliefs.  Kind of a deliberate ignorance.

Well, you're certainly the prime example of that.

[Argus]

27 minutes ago, marcus said:

Our immigration system, for the most part, tries to sell itself as merritt based.

Yeah, but it's not.

27 minutes ago, marcus said:

Our most common program, under Express Entry is based on a point system. It depends on your language level, age, education and work experience. Nothing to do with your location.

And yet only about 17% of immigrants come in because of their skills. I should say alleged skills since they're rarely verified. And most of our immigrants come from countries where fraud and fake degrees are a way of life.

And to repeat, the number of immigrants who can come in from various countries is entirely reliant on how many visas that local area is granted.

27 minutes ago, marcus said:

When it comes to temporary residency (study/visit/work), which can help you to become a permanent resident/citizen, is different. The Irish, for example, do not need to apply to get a visitor visa. They are visa exempt, as are most European countries.

Which hardly matters since they still have to apply in London and London has very few immigration visas to give out and they're divided among multiple countries.

 

[WestCanMan]

5 hours ago, marcus said:

That was a short term decision after the refugee crisis. That has nothing to do with our immigration system and what Argus is alleging in regards to our immigration system favouring Muslim countries.

It was favouritism. That's what it was. 

Not just a bit of favouritism mind you, it was a lot of favouritism, to a lot of people, and it came at the cost of our safety. People have been assaulted and killed as a result of this mere "favouritism".

That's why it's a real topic. 

[Michael Hardner]

Remember when we showed favouritism to the Hungarians when their country was under seige ?  Wait, isn't ANY refugee program favouritism to the people under duress ?

 

The mindset of these people...

[OftenWrong]

13 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Remember when we showed favouritism to the Hungarians when their country was under seige ?  Wait, isn't ANY refugee program favouritism to the people under duress ?

 

The mindset of these people...

I don't speak for anyone else, but as long as you're willing to share some of that goulash, I'm ok.

I just don't think all these people do.

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Remember when we showed favouritism to the Hungarians when their country was under seige ?  Wait, isn't ANY refugee program favouritism to the people under duress ?

 

The mindset of these people...

The people under duress in a country are usually the ones suffering from things like genocide and enslavement. Not the ones inflicting those things on minorities.

If we could go back in time to WWII and rescue some refugees from Germany, should we take German refugees or Jewish ones?

Im asking for a Liberal friend, because he is retarded. 

[marcus]

On 9/20/2020 at 6:44 PM, WestCanMan said:

It was favouritism. That's what it was. 

Not just a bit of favouritism mind you, it was a lot of favouritism, to a lot of people, and it came at the cost of our safety. People have been assaulted and killed as a result of this mere "favouritism".

That's why it's a real topic. 

You're reaching and you're being dramatic.

You're also not able to stay on the topic you responded to originally.

You have now gone on a tangent, and are outraged at "the sudden surge in crime, because Canada let in Syrian refugees." The problem is that these feelings you have are detached from reality. These feeling are most likely due to the fear of the unknown, which stems from being disconnected from the other people. I don't know why, but it could be because of your location and your lack of access to and communication with people from different cultures and background. You're also being influenced by social media memes that feed on your fears in, what is, an echo chamber. That's how most search engines and social media platforms' algorithm work. Like facebook, where you have indicated, you get most of your information from.

I just can't relate to your fears.

One of the main reasons is because, for most of my life, I have lived in communities with a mix of different cultures and ethnicities. There is a lot we can all learn from each other. One thing that I've learned is that pretty much everyone, regardless of religious or ethnic background, is looking for the same thing: A healthy, happy and secure future for our families and fellow people.

Why you gotta hate?

 

[marcus]

On 9/20/2020 at 12:26 PM, Argus said:

Yeah, but it's not.

And yet only about 17% of immigrants come in because of their skills. I should say alleged skills since they're rarely verified. And most of our immigrants come from countries where fraud and fake degrees are a way of life.

Oh man. We've been over this before. You keep regurgitating the same selective half truths and your bizarre way of looking at who comes into our country.

If a family immigrates to Canada through the most common way, under a skilled worker program, the main applicant will be assessed to meet a minimum requirement, which allows him/her to compete in a pool with others. At the moment, there are 150,000 people in this pool (and growing) and once a month, between 7-9,000 people are selected to apply for permanent residency. This means that 95% of the people who are in this pool are not selected. You receive points in from Age, Work Experience and:

Education
In order to get into the pool, a person's education must be verified. This means, that a few handpicked organizations, first, check to see if your school falls on an internationally recognized list of post secondary institutions. Then, they contact the school to verify that the person is on their registry. The pool has become so competitive, that a person applying from outside of Canada, now must have at least 2 post secondary credential.

Language
Each main applicant must also take an internationally recognized English or French test and achieve a minimum score of 6 out of 9. However, if you want to have a real chance of being in the top 5%, and be picked from the pool, you cannot score less than 7.5 out of 9. Not simple.

Dependents of the Main applicant
The principal applicant's spouse and dependent children under 22, can be part of the application. 

The problem with your article
---> """ And yet only about 17% of immigrants come in because of their skills. """
-------> """ And yet only about 17% of immigrants come in because of their skills. """
----------> """ And yet only about 17% of immigrants come in because of their skills. """

The article (and you) are outraged that the rest of the family of the principal applicant is not being assessed for their skill.

How can you try to make this argument?

Are you expecting for the 2 children of Dr. Muhammed Ghaboollah, 5 year old Muhammed Reza Ghaboollah and his sister, 7 year old Zahra Ghaboollah to be assessed for skills? What if their mother is a stay at home mom? She should not be allowed in because of that?

 

On 9/20/2020 at 12:26 PM, Argus said:

And to repeat, the number of immigrants who can come in from various countries is entirely reliant on how many visas that local area is granted.

Which hardly matters since they still have to apply in London and London has very few immigration visas to give out and they're divided among multiple countries.

 

Oh yeah. It's about demand.

The Europeans, people who you feel comfortable being around, are not that interested in coming to Canada. No more than a once every 15 years, as a tourist.

You're wrong about the quota. That's if you're talking about permanent residency. Regardless, for temporary residency, you'd be wrong as well.

Permanent Residency
When it comes to Permanent Residency, outside of spousal sponsorship and refugee claimants, which are a very small portion of our immigrants, the applications are merit-based and location is not considered. That said, due to the advantage Temporary Residents from certain areas of the world receive, the end result is that there is favouritism based on the origin of the applicant.

Temporary Residency
These are international workers, students and visitors. Before they come to Canada, they need to file an application. Except for those wanting to come to Canada as a visitor, from visa-exempt countries (Europe/US/Aus/etc.); They simply submit an online registration to receive an eTA. The rest of applicants, regardless if you're from a visa exempt or non-visa exempt country, must file an application. By simply looking at the numbers, the origin of the applicant does make a difference in the outcome. There is a heavy tilt towards the Europeans, Aussies/Kiwis, Americans, Japanese, Koreans and Taiwanese, as far as the acceptance rate. Even though, the qualification of the applicants remained the same, frequently, you don't see consistent results between different visa offices. It's more than blatant, the favouritism you see towards those from Western countries.

An example of a usual outcome
From my experience in the industry and from studying case laws, I can give you a comparison of two general cases based on the origin of the applicants:

1) You have Helen, from Austria. She is 23 and has received an acceptance to a mid-tier college, for a diploma program. As required, she is able to show that she has access to enough money for the tuition and living expenses for 1 year. 

2) You have Zainab, from Pakistan. She is 23 and has just received her bachelor degree in computer science. Now she wants to pursue her Masters in Canada, after receiving an acceptance to a mid-tier university. She has paid the tuition and can show access to more than the cost of living expenses for 1 year. 

Outcome
Helen receives a positive response and Zainab receives a negative response.
Helen from Austria is now able to come to Canada, to pursue education. Once she completes her education, options open up to apply for Permanent Residency. Zainab from Pakistan will not.

There is your favouritism.

Why you gotta hate?

 

[Michael Hardner]

4 hours ago, marcus said:

 

1. I just can't relate to your fears.

2. Why you gotta hate?

 

1. Furthermore, some people feel that they are entitled to DEMAND that the group acts on their fears and paranoias.
2. At some point, selflessness stopped being a virtue and people started valuing ego and selfishness.  ( This problem crosses political and religious lines )

[OftenWrong]

11 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

At some point, selflessness stopped being a virtue and people started valuing ego and selfishness.  ( This problem crosses political and religious lines )

When people abuse other people for their virtues, they stop doing it.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

When people abuse other people for their virtues, they stop doing it.

People who think they are virtuous without exception are the problem here, not virtuous people who have been taken advantage of.  The cult of the self overtook the selfless mindset that was the essence of the religiously observant.

Your response has this phenomenon embedded in it.

[dialamah]

On 9/20/2020 at 10:18 PM, WestCanMan said:

we could go back in time to WWII and rescue some refugees from Germany, should we take German refugees or Jewish ones

If they're refugees trying to escape war, why not both? 

Anyway, because of fears about Jews, similar to the ones you express about Syrians, we refused to take Jews.  Maybe we could work at being a better country now, instead of repeating our past mistakes.

[WestCanMan]

7 hours ago, marcus said:

You're reaching and you're being dramatic.

You're also not able to stay on the topic you responded to originally.

You have now gone on a tangent, and are outraged at "the sudden surge in crime, because Canada let in Syrian refugees." The problem is that these feelings you have are detached from reality. These feeling are most likely due to the fear of the unknown, which stems from being disconnected from the other people. I don't know why, but it could be because of your location and your lack of access to and communication with people from different cultures and background. You're also being influenced by social media memes that feed on your fears in, what is, an echo chamber. That's how most search engines and social media platforms' algorithm work. Like facebook, where you have indicated, you get most of your information from.

I just can't relate to your fears.One of the main reasons is because, for most of my life, I have lived in communities with a mix of different cultures and ethnicities. There is a lot we can all learn from each other.

No reaching, no drama, not off-topic.

Favouritism was giving people refugee status when they were just displaced by war. 

For your edification, a refugee is:

Quote

“someone who is unable or unwilling to return to their country of origin owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion.”

We gave refugee status to people who were in no danger of being massacred, they just wanted out (quite sensibly), but they weren't actually refugees. 

Christians and Yazidis were the actual refugees in Syria. They were the ones being persecuted [murdered en masse, and forced into rape slavery - that's at the exact extreme end of persecuted]. 

Those are the actual facts of the matter. Facts.

I applaud anyone with the sense to want to get away from the type of people who formed islamic state, and I feel sympathy for the people whose home was destroyed by them, but any compassionate person would understand the need to treat actual refugees like refugees and to treat people displaced by war like people displaced by war.

 

What you're doing here is actually just talking about your feelings, which isn't important, and pandering to a culture that's a minority here so that you can scramble up onto a pedestal of moral & ethical superiority. Problem is that you're just chasing windmills - you're not actually the champion of a great cause you're just flying in the face of truth for cheap brownie points.

If your family was facing genocide in Syria, you'd really NEED to get out of there, and I would expect/demand that our country would do everything within our power to get you all out. If you were merely a part of the culture that was committing genocide, and you wanted to get out, I would hope that the families who were facing genocide were evacuated ahead of yours.

 

Quote

One thing that I've learned is that pretty much everyone, regardless of religious or ethnic background, is looking for the same thing: A healthy, happy and secure future for our families and fellow people.

Why you gotta hate?

This simply isn't true. The al-quds day hate rallies here are a perfect example of that. People who advocate for genocide weren't refugees, they were a part of the problem, and they are not welcome in Canada and you should agree with that. 

 

If you're being honest you'll also acknowledge that there wasn't just a small amount of people in Syria who wanted to commit genocide. There were enough of them to forge a large country in an area where there were tens of thousands of soldiers fighting them with modern military technology.

That means that : there was a massive group of people there who were so dedicated to the cause of genocide that they were willing to put their lives on the line to fight for it. Behind that group is an even larger group of people who support that genocide but are just too weak or scared to fight along with them, or whose job was to raise their children and to honour their heroism.

Again, if you're being honest, you'll acknowledge that the leader of those repugnant maggots told them to 'mingle with the wave of refugees so that they can get into the soft areas of the western world to spread their hideous ideology and to commit terrorist attacks there'. Our PM dipped deep into the pool of potential terrorists and brought tens of thousands of people to our country with almost no vetting.

 

If there's  something that I said that you feel is inaccurate I'd love to hear exactly what it is. 

[Argus]

6 hours ago, marcus said:

The article (and you) are outraged that the rest of the family of the principal applicant is not being assessed for their skill.

One of the tactics that immigration supporters routinely throw at anyone who questions the system is to impute some motive behind the opposition which is not actually in evidence. No one is outraged. Nothing in the article suggests outrage. Nothing I wrote suggests outrage. As with most on the left, all your views are governed by emotion, and so you attempt to suggest mine are. They're not. When I point out that only 17% are ACTUAL SKILLED IMMIGRANTS that's all I'm doing, pointing out that of the hundreds of thousands who come in each year only 17% are skilled. Period.

Quote

How can you try to make this argument?

Easily. Because you and others who support mass immigration continually bleat about how more than half the immigrants are highly skilled. This dishonestly implies that we're getting a ton of people who will instantly find well-paid work. But that's just not the case. 

Quote

Oh yeah. It's about demand.

The Europeans, people who you feel comfortable being around, are not that interested in coming to Canada. No more than a once every 15 years, as a tourist.

Bullshit. You're telling me people in Ukraine don't want to come here? People in Hungary? For a very, very long time the unemployment rate, particularly for younger people in many European countries, was in the high double digits. We're talking 25%-35% in France, Italy, Greece - remember Greece? You think the Greeks don't want to immigrate? The unemployment rate for young Greeks was 40% a couple of years ago. It's 17% overall (2019), which is still a big improvement over previous years when it was 25%. The Spanish unemployment rate was 16% last year. It's 40% among young people. The unemployment rate in Ireland periodically rises to 15% and we get waves of young Irish coming here working illegally.

Yes, a lot of Europeans would like to come here. What they lack are the immigration visa availability, and the fact that so much of our immigration is based on family sponsorship. That means the more people we get from a given country the more people we will continue to get from that country, as newcomers sponsor more relatives, and they, in turn, sponsor more relatives.

Quote

Permanent Residency
When it comes to Permanent Residency, outside of spousal sponsorship and refugee claimants, which are a very small portion of our immigrants,

We're currently bringing in/allowing in some 50,000 asylum claimants a year. That's not a very small portion. And almost all of them stay. Not because they have legitimate claims but because we're pretty slack in our demands, and because even if we turn someone down eventually (after years of hearings and appeals) most just stay anyway. We have no real ability to track down and deport failed asylum claimants, nor to even keep track of those who leave and don't.

Quote

Why you gotta hate?

Again, you're incapable of engaging in mature discussion. Both because you're emotionally devoted to immigration, and because that's how you make your living. Because of that you're going to lie and attack anyone who questions mass immigration for any reason. Even if you have to pretend they have some ulterior, nefarious motive.

Immigration profits you. There's damn all evidence it profits Canada. But then, you're own profit is all you care about anyway.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Argus

[Argus]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Furthermore, some people feel that they are entitled to DEMAND that the group acts on their fears and paranoias.
 

And some people, utterly invested with a view which has no actual evidence behind it, feel the need to impute moral and intellectual defects to those who disagree, despite the evidence presented in support of their argument.

[Argus]

6 minutes ago, dialamah said:

If they're refugees trying to escape war, why not both? 

Anyway, because of fears about Jews, similar to the ones you express about Syrians, we refused to take Jews.  Maybe we could work at being a better country now, instead of repeating our past mistakes.

Do you know how many Syrians are currently employed? Do you have any idea how much we've spent on them thus far?

No, of course not. Nor do you care.

[WestCanMan]

3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

If they're refugees trying to escape war, why not both? 

I broke your post into two parts, both of which show your complete lack of understanding of this issue.

1) they're not both 'groups of refugees'. That's a simple fact that you'll understand when you look up the definition of refugee. 

Quote

Anyway, because of fears about Jews, similar to the ones you express about Syrians, we refused to take Jews.  Maybe we could work at being a better country now, instead of repeating our past mistakes.

2) Did Canadians fear Jews because the Jews in Germany in 1938-'45 had a long & recent reputation for committing large-scale terrorist attacks? Did Canadians fear the German Jews because at that point in time, the Jewish population in Germany was committing genocide against a minority population there, and a large segment of the German-Jewish population were dedicated to the downfall of western society?

I wasn't aware of that. I don't think anyone is aware of that. If you could just prove that, that would be great. 

[dialamah]

17 minutes ago, Argus said:

Do you know how many Syrians are currently employed? Do you have any idea how much we've spent on them thus far?

No, of course not. Nor do you care.

Do you pay any attention to experts in the field of immigration?

No of course not, because your agenda doesn't allow any information that contradicts your ill-informed "opinion".

[dialamah]

23 minutes ago, Argus said:

And some people, utterly invested with a view which has no actual evidence behind it, feel the need to impute moral and intellectual defects to those who disagree, despite the evidence presented in support of their argument.

Speaking for yourself again, I see.  

[DogOnPorch]

Merit has no place on the Left. It's ALL identity politics....a fancy phrase for racism.