Confidence Vote

[betsy]

Watched the Conservatives' press con this morning.  An email by a senior public servant described the recent WE program as a "shit show!"  Indeed, only a truly concerned public servant would be so bold as to speak his mind with disregard for the repercussions against him.

All those redacted emails - I'm so concerned that Trudeau will take advantage of the Covid, and use "rebuilding the economy," as an excuse to dole out taxpayers' money, and sole-source contracts to his cronies.  We are so like the third world countries now in regards to blatant corruption!

I would like to have a fall election.  However, even if the Conservatives and PQ are on the same page about bringing down this government, the two of them won't be enough.   They need to have the NDP on board.  I don't think Jagmeet Singh will want to have an election.....so, he's likely to be the one to prop up Trudeau (of course, in exchange for something).

 

With what we're seeing......any party leader who tries to prop up this government, would be as corrupt!  Or, he doesn't really care.  

  Whether your party is financially prepared for an election or not, whether you're up n the polls or not...........

...........................what's in the best interest of the country should come first. 

 

The longer this government sits in power, the deeper we get into a massive debt which the future generation will have to shoulder.

 

Do you want a fall election?  Your thoughts.

 

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by betsy

[dialamah]

Not really.  I feel like there is enough going on, I don't want to deal with political campaigns.  I also want some time to get to know the Conservative leader to decide if I could support them. 

If there were an election this fall, should it be entirely voting by mail, or in-person as usual?

[scribblet]

2 hours ago, betsy said:

Watched the Conservatives' press con this morning.  An email by a senior public servant described the recent WE program as a "shit show!"  Indeed, only a truly concerned public servant would be so bold as to speak his mind with disregard for the repercussions against him.

All those redacted emails - I'm so concerned that Trudeau will take advantage of the Covid, and use "rebuilding the economy," as an excuse to dole out taxpayers' money, and sole-source contracts to his cronies.  We are so like the third world countries now in regards to blatant corruption!

 .......   Do you want a fall election?  Your thoughts.

From what Trudeau has said he will be doling out a lot more money, it appears he will be turning Canada into a total Nanny State if he gets the chance which is why we cannot let him continue, even if he quits, Freeland is the same. 

I didn't want a fall election but now I think we have to have one as it's imperative that Trudeau goes.   The thing is Election Canada isn't sure they can handle it under covid rules and or a total mail in, so what happens if the gov't falls but EC says they can't do it?  

Finance Official on learning the cost of the WE grant: “Money. Meh. No problem ;)”

 

[Queenmandy85]

Sorry Betsy and Dialamah, I liked both of your comments inspite of their apparent contradiction. It is just that I love elections. They are our national sport. Then there is the problem with Covid, but we are better at politics than just about any other country in the world. What is interesting is, as Scribbet noted, the grits are corrupt. Not big news. Mike Pearson's government had five scandals going on at once with a 6th in the oven. Anyone remember Lucien Rivard? 

In the other corner, we have Peter MacKay (presumably), who's corruption was selling out his own party for a cabinet post. Rather than doing the accepted thing by changing parties for himself,  he first betrayed his entire party. The question is, would he sellout his whole country?

All that being said, either one would make an okay PM. Once in government, you find that ideology and grand ideas are replaced by pragmatic solutions to complex problems and the range of choices are very narrow...unless you are a total idiot.

[scribblet]

Trudeau's proroguing of gov't is worse than any others because

a) it's the middle of a pandemic so no Parliament

b) he's doing it to avoid investigations of his scandals (so did Chretien to avoid the ad scam inquiry)

c) Trudeau actually promised never to prorogue so another promise just bit the dust

this tweet didn't age well
 

[dialamah]

7 minutes ago, scribblet said:

c) Trudeau actually promised never to prorogue so another promise just bit the dust

Hard to imagine a politician doing anything he argued against when he was part of the opposition!  

It's not that I disagree with you, it's just that every politician ever seems to develop memory problems when they switch between leader and opposition.

Find it odd how you complain about Trudeau and Chretien proroguing, but skip right over Harper proroguing to escape investigation or avoid a no-confidence vote.  Seems to me that if proroguing is bad, its bad for all parties, not just Liberals.

[scribblet]

22 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Hard to imagine a politician doing anything he argued against when he was part of the opposition!  

It's not that I disagree with you, it's just that every politician ever seems to develop memory problems when they switch between leader and opposition.

Find it odd how you complain about Trudeau and Chretien proroguing, but skip right over Harper proroguing to escape investigation or avoid a no-confidence vote.  Seems to me that if proroguing is bad, its bad for all parties, not just Liberals.

He actually made a campaign promised not to prorogue, he didn't just march against it as an MP.

Harper was trying to avoid defeat, but Trudeau is trying to prevent Canadians from learning the truth about how pervasive the this scandal really is,  that along with his own family’s clear conflict of interest.  

All you need to know about Trudeau Prorogation. "We need to prorogue Parliament" "But Parliament already is shut down" "But not the Committee investigating our corruption" "Good Point"

[Army Guy]

Someone who thought up this new liberal direction , should deserve a huge promotion.... First off they don't have to be distracted by all these committees looking into any scandals nor does the voters, knowing that Canadians have short memories, besides liberal voters don't care about scandals', ethical breaches, breaking the law, or someone shitting on your door step, they will vote Liberal because the conservatives have poisoned themselves, (with little help from the lying liberals) to most of the left in the country, voting for the right is like lighting yourself on fire, you just don't do it... The only thing these committees are accomplishing is firing up Conservatives voters...liberals have already put this to bed, and gone home to watch the play offs.

Second they are going to use this break and come up with new and improved ways to spend...spend....spend.... and when we think it is over they are going to spend some more, the media has been hinting in this direction, massive spending on green programs, along with massive spending on more social programs because Canadians love social programs, they like being bribed during elections, the more the better...and toss in a few NDP programs like 12 bil child care program, and we are off to the races....

The liberals already know with out NDP support the others can not call another election, and the NDP have proven already they are for sale.... 

third , the new Cons leadership are all but unknown to the rest of the country...don't have enough time to share they're platforms or show what they are made off.... this is going to hurt them....Right now the liberals hold all the cards, we are not going to see another election, Justin and his merry band of crooks are going to drive this country deeper into the hole, while giving the cons the finger the entire time they are in power... short of Justin getting hit by a bus, i think he is going to finish his second term, and perhaps see his forth trip to the ethics committee, and a few other scandals along the way...and we are going to have to grin and bear it, while being bent over the counter with out pants down to our ankles....unless we know any bus drivers....

 

[betsy]

Last night, CBC streaming news below is now saying that the Feds have given so many documents that support their contention regarding to the contracting of WE.  

No mention of the redacted emails - and no mention of some damning statements (as shown by Poilevre in the press con),  in some of those documents. 

Edited August 20, 2020 by betsy

[betsy]

13 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Then there is the problem with Covid, but we are better at politics than just about any other country in the world.

All that being said, either one would make an okay PM. Once in government, you find that ideology and grand ideas are replaced by pragmatic solutions to complex problems and the range of choices are very narrow...unless you are a total idiot.

 

 

I don't think sole-sourcing and throwing money at cronies are any solutions at all......especially when we're in a middle of a crisis due to this pandemic.

Let's not assume that the half-billion that was supposed to be given to WE (minus the admin fee) would all end up being used on students. 

Corruption breeds corruption. 

  Everyone in the loop will get something.  How much of that pie  are given to all the parties involved in this dealing  - including public servants that "endorsed" WE?  How many among them involved in this "shaping up" have been given, or promised lucrative incentives?  How much will be used to buy some real estate?

 

Lol.   They're having a COVID party and slicing up the pie.   The taxpayers who shoulders all the expenses are given...............CRUMBS. 

 

That's how it looks.   That's how it feels.

Edited August 20, 2020 by betsy

[betsy]

10 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Second they are going to use this break and come up with new and improved ways to spend...spend....spend.... and when we think it is over they are going to spend some more,

"Re-building....," will be the biggest excuse - and of course, who cannot agree to the importance of that?  Who among us don't see it as a priority?

 

We haven't seen nothin' yet.

If this federal government is able to continue  - Trudeau will push all his grandiose plans (in the name of "rebuilding the economy") - and would likely commit more unethical dealings -  like this is his last chance to do so!

[betsy]

13 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

In the other corner, we have Peter MacKay (presumably), who's corruption was selling out his own party for a cabinet post. Rather than doing the accepted thing by changing parties for himself,  he first betrayed his entire party. The question is, would he sellout his whole country?

 

That's not corruption! 

 

Lol.   He didn't ram it through against the will of conservatives!   They voted on it!

 

If I remember it right - the aim was to unite the divided conservatives!    At some point, the leader will have to make his decision. 

That's not a flaw!  That's..............................LEADERSHIP!

 

If McKay had indeed thought it best for the Conservatives to be united - then, he decided unselfishly! 

 

He gave up leadership for the best interest of all conservatives!

 

 

That decision had helped tremendously for the Conservatives to finally win a federal election!

 

Quote

 

Public musings that the divided PCs would be marginalized in a future election between a relatively stable western-based CA under Stephen Harper and the massively popular Paul Martin Liberals (although Jean Chrétien remained the Liberal leader until November 2003, he had announced he would not run again), MacKay encouraged talks between high-profile members of the Canadian Alliance and the Progressive Conservatives.

On October 15, 2003, the merger talks culminated in MacKay and Alliance leader Stephen Harper signing an Agreement in Principle on the establishment of the Conservative Party of Canada, whereby the Progressive Conservatives and the Canadian Alliance would merge to form a new Conservative Party of Canada.

 

While MacKay was roundly criticized in some Red Tory circles for permitting a union under his watch, MacKay's efforts to sell the merger to the PC membership were successful: 90.4% of the party's elected delegates supported the deal in a vote on December 6, 2003.^[

The Liberal government lost a motion of non-confidence on November 28, 2005. In the resulting January 2006 election, the Conservative Party was elected with a minority government. He did retain his seat by a comfortable margin.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_MacKay

 

  And why shouldn't McKay negotiate for a cabinet position?   He was the leader of the other party - he has to have some important position within the new coalition!  How can he have any input at all in this new party if he has no cabinet position? 

There's nothing wrong with that!   That's  common!  Just look into business mergers - there is something that's always negotiated for!

 

 

 

Furthermore, it's not comparable at all to the corruption we've seen REPEATEDLY committed by Trudeau!  

The brazen and blatant efforts at corruption/unethical dealings by Trudeau is.................................................. groundbreaking! 

Lol - Trudeau averages one ethic breach a year!   There could be more that went on.

 

Let's not forget his attempt to try to sneak in a bill that gives him so much power in that covid bill that was supposed to be emergency aid for Canadians!  Lol, good thing that the opposition had caught that!

 

I'd rather take my chances with a new Captain at the helm.  I'd like to see an election!

Edited August 20, 2020 by betsy

[Queenmandy85]

Sorry, Betsy, but that was a betrayal of the party of MacDonald for the marxist gang of theives of Bennett, Aberhart and Manning. MacKay only won the PC leadership by signing a contract with Orchard to never merge with Manning's bolsheviks. He betrayed all conservatives. He betrayed the legacy of MacDonald, Diefenbaker and Clark. 

Compared to the Bennetts and Gaglardis, Trudeau's and Morneau's corruption pales to insignifigance. (Not that they should get away with what they've done, but they are grits, it is in their DNA.)

[Queenmandy85]

2 hours ago, betsy said:

I'd rather take my chances with a new Captain at the helm.

Maybe we will get lucky and O'Toole will win. 

Off topic, my favourite quote was from Prime Minister Clark. "If Joe Clark walked on water, the press headline would be 'Joe Clark can't swim.'"

[betsy]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Sorry, Betsy, but that was a betrayal of the party of MacDonald for the marxist gang of theives of Bennett, Aberhart and Manning. MacKay only won the PC leadership by signing a contract with Orchard to never merge with Manning's bolsheviks. He betrayed all conservatives. He betrayed the legacy of MacDonald, Diefenbaker and Clark. 

Compared to the Bennetts and Gaglardis, Trudeau's and Morneau's corruption pales to insignifigance. (Not that they should get away with what they've done, but they are grits, it is in their DNA.)

 

I have to admit I don't know much about that.

Edited August 20, 2020 by betsy

[betsy]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Maybe we will get lucky and O'Toole will win. 

Off topic, my favourite quote was from Prime Minister Clark. "If Joe Clark walked on water, the press headline would be 'Joe Clark can't swim.'"

I'm hoping it will be Lewis.

.............but, whoever it is that wins, I'll be voting for him/her.  Trudeau is right.   We've got to do a '"reset."

 

A very serious "reset."  We need a new PM.

Edited August 20, 2020 by betsy

[betsy]

18 hours ago, scribblet said:

From what Trudeau has said he will be doling out a lot more money, it appears he will be turning Canada into a total Nanny State if he gets the chance which is why we cannot let him continue, even if he quits, Freeland is the same. 

 

I believe he'll be spending like it will be his last term - like, there is no tomorrow.  We may never recover from the deficit he'll be adding  - it'll be the end of the standard of living as we know it.

Edited August 20, 2020 by betsy

[scribblet]

9 hours ago, betsy said:

I believe he'll be spending like it will be his last term - like, there is no tomorrow.  We may never recover from the deficit he'll be adding  - it'll be the end of the standard of living as we know it.

The spending and changes will be made through regulation so bypassing Parliament, again .  There is no accountability or restraint so what will happen when he runs out of other people's money. 

[dialamah]

21 minutes ago, scribblet said:

The spending and changes will be made through regulation so bypassing Parliament, again .  There is no accountability or restraint so what will happen when he runs out of other people's money. 

Do you think nobody should pay taxes then?  How do you suppose all our Western infrastructure is paid for, hmm?  Roads, schools, hospitals, teachers, doctors, nurses, cops, etc., etc.?  Is that 'other people's money'?  Or is it only 'other people's money' if you don't like what the money is being used for?

Anyway, let's hope that the Conservative leader (will it be McKay?) has a plan that actually addresses our economy in a realistic way, without cutting services to the people who need them most - children, disabled, seniors, single parents, vets etc.   Let's hope that any upcoming 'austerity' focuses on those who can afford to have their lifestyle reduced - rich people, rich corporations, rich churches.

Edited August 21, 2020 by dialamah

[scribblet]

3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Do you think nobody should pay taxes then?  How do you suppose all our Western infrastructure is paid for, hmm?  Roads, schools, hospitals, teachers, doctors, nurses, cops, etc., etc.?  Is that 'other people's money'?  Or is it only 'other people's money' if you don't like what the money is being used for?

Anyway, let's hope that the Conservative leader (will it be McKay?) has a plan that actually addresses our economy in a realistic way, without cutting services to the people who need them most - children, disabled, seniors, single parents, vets etc.   Let's hope that any upcoming 'austerity' focuses on those who can afford to have their lifestyle reduced - rich people, rich corporations, rich churches.

Where did I say that.  Trudeau is outspending the taxes taken in, and plans on spending much more

"If the Liberals and their plan survive the [confidence] vote, they will have effectively been given a mandate to enact major reforms – a mandate granted without the usual inconvenience of an election." https://t.co/wB706Xgga5

 

[dialamah]

16 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Where did I say that.  Trudeau is outspending the taxes taken in, and plans on spending much more

Yes, this is true.  Harper did the same in 2008, when there was a worldwide recession - he 'outspent taxes taken in' for 3 years, if I recall correctly.  But he had to; I recognize that even though I was not a fan of Harper and even though he promised a balanced budget.

Trudeau, like virtually all leaders, also has had little choice through the pandemic.  A lot of criticism has been directed toward our government (and other governments by their citizens) for not being more prepared for a pandemic - for not spending the money needed to ensure we'd be prepared with PPE and medical facilities before it was needed, for not having any kind of plan at all. 

Just because Canada's gotten of relatively lightly (so far) doesn't mean we can just continue on as normal.  If a pandemic comes again, we need a better financial plan than suddenly having to throw tons of money out and messing up our financial outlook for years to come.  I don't know if what Trudeau is planning will achieve that, but we, as a country, need to take a hard look at how we failed to plan, failed to be prepared - and figure out a way to do better next time.  That will involve spending money; constant crying about that fact of life is not useful.   

If a Conservative leader came up with a plan - something that plans for the future, including supporting people and businesses financially if needed, then I'd listen.  I'd support higher taxes to achieve that, whether it's Liberals or Conservatives imposing them.   Throwing everything out based only on who's leading - that is just useless partisanship.

[WestCanMan]

On 8/19/2020 at 2:08 PM, scribblet said:

Trudeau's proroguing of gov't is worse than any others because

How many times did we have parliament in 2020? Just a handful of partial meetings? It's very undemocratic, but we always knew that about Trudeau.

[WestCanMan]

http://www.nationalcitizens.ca/fernando_corrupt_liberals_insult_canadians?fbclid=IwAR3NVLI1i9s3QiYbISu-HFRpwww6iD3ZpLgMEJKpaxoFPz0OqGIjC4lSMww

Quote

And on ethics, it’s only gotten worse, with Trudeau under investigation for even more ethics violations, having already set the record for most ethics violations by a sitting PM (quite a feat after just 4 years in office).

In short, the Liberals are 'spitting in the face' of Canadians, and asking us to be grateful for it.

Spencer is Tha Man!

[cannuck]

On 8/20/2020 at 8:40 AM, betsy said:

 

I have to admit I don't know much about that.

 

On 8/20/2020 at 7:09 AM, Queenmandy85 said:

Sorry, Betsy, but that was a betrayal of the party of MacDonald for the marxist gang of theives of Bennett, Aberhart and Manning. MacKay only won the PC leadership by signing a contract with Orchard to never merge with Manning's bolsheviks. He betrayed all conservatives. He betrayed the legacy of MacDonald, Diefenbaker and Clark. 

Compared to the Bennetts and Gaglardis, Trudeau's and Morneau's corruption pales to insignifigance. (Not that they should get away with what they've done, but they are grits, it is in their DNA.)

I wasn't around for MacDonald, but both Dief the Thief and Joe Klutz were Red Torries, not Conservatives.  Nothing to betray.  I certainly DO agree with you about Bennet, Bible Bill and Manning, though.  Practical politics makes for many strange bedfellows indeed.

[WestCanMan]

On 8/19/2020 at 2:08 PM, scribblet said:

Trudeau's proroguing of gov't is worse than any others because

a) it's the middle of a pandemic so no Parliament

b) he's doing it to avoid investigations of his scandals (so did Chretien to avoid the ad scam inquiry)

c) Trudeau actually promised never to prorogue so another promise just bit the dust

this tweet didn't age well
 

How many times has Trudeau even been physically present in parliament in 2020? And online?

And why does he get to ban non-sycophant media from being in his presence?

When he ran for election did he ever mention that if there was any kind of a scare whatsoever or if he was caught up in any scandals that he'd hide in his basement for months at a time?

The tweet, lol. So busted. But honestly, what promise has he lived up to? Unless he promised to divide the country at some point then he hasn't accomplished anything.