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Hello, Mr. Trudeau! Welcome to the wonderful world of ... Gun-Control Legislation!!


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One other thing, guns aren't the best option for terrorists either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing

The Oklahoma bomber used diesel fuel and fertilizer, neither of which can be regulated like guns can. He killed 168 people and injured 680 more.

There were also several very "successful" terrorist attacks using trucks, and as a result, there have to be concrete blockades at Christmas markets.

But let's talk about gun control every time there's a mass killing, even when it has nothingto do with current gun control laws.

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21 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

But let's talk about gun control every time there's a mass killing, even when it has nothing to do with current gun control laws.

Zeitgeist and others display their Pavlovian response to any gun crime.  The politician of the day (boy Trudeau) will announce new controls for those law abiding firearm owners, Zeitgeist and his ilk will blather-on about this subject that they know nothing about, and farmer/rancher, hunter, competitive shooter, etc. gets branded as a potential gun crime criminal. Alan Rock was one of the stupidest politicians in a very long time.  Pander to the uninformed inner-city voters.

Edited by Nefarious Banana
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1 hour ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Zeitgeist and others display their Pavlovian response to any gun crime.  The politician of the day (boy Trudeau) will announce new controls for those law abiding firearm owners, Zeitgeist and his ilk will blather-on about this subject that they know nothing about, and farmer/rancher, hunter, competitive shooter, etc. gets branded as a potential gun crime criminal. Alan Rock was one of the stupidest politicians in a very long time.  Pander to the uninformed inner-city voters.

What does farmer, rancher, hunter have to do with anything I said?   What, you need a semi-automatic multi-round to take down a deer?   Real men don’t have to rely on tech meant for mass murder.  Sorry pal, it’s irresponsible for the state to allow civilians to pack such dangerous weapons.  Do you need C4 to catch fish?  Grow up.  

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1 hour ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Zeitgeist and others display their Pavlovian response to any gun crime.  The politician of the day (boy Trudeau) will announce new controls for those law abiding firearm owners, Zeitgeist and his ilk will blather-on about this subject that they know nothing about, and farmer/rancher, hunter, competitive shooter, etc. gets branded as a potential gun crime criminal. Alan Rock was one of the stupidest politicians in a very long time.  Pander to the uninformed inner-city voters.

Can't shoot shapeshifters. You got to track the sobs to wear they feed and poison them with laughter. Only rifle I like is a Winchester and they are useless but they look nice on a wall.

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1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

What does farmer, rancher, hunter have to do with anything I said?   What, you need a semi-automatic multi-round to take down a deer?   Real men don’t have to rely on tech meant for mass murder.  Sorry pal, it’s irresponsible for the state to allow civilians to pack such dangerous weapons.  Do you need C4 to catch fish?  Grow up.  

Your reason for taking it away is that you just don't see why people want it. That's not a real reason.

Semi-auto rifles don't change anything. Anyone who wants to do something evil with a semi-auto rifle can achieve the exact same things or worse by other means if they don't have access to rifles. 

 

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2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Your reason for taking it away is that you just don't see why people want it. That's not a real reason.

Semi-auto rifles don't change anything. Anyone who wants to do something evil with a semi-auto rifle can achieve the exact same things or worse by other means if they don't have access to rifles. 

 

Be sensible.  How easy do we need to make killing? 

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14 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

What does farmer, rancher, hunter have to do with anything I said?   What, you need a semi-automatic multi-round to take down a deer?   Real men don’t have to rely on tech meant for mass murder.  Sorry pal, it’s irresponsible for the state to allow civilians to pack such dangerous weapons.  Do you need C4 to catch fish?  Grow up.  

Perhaps you should educate yourself on the present gun laws and realize that they are comprehensive and rarely enforced.  More doesn't mean better.  Your comment above concerning harvesting a deer showcases your Pavlovian response to anything concerning firearms.  Just a suggestion . . . . learn about this subject, realize that your being 'played', and realize that you've been drooling when a politician talks of more unnecessary gun laws.   Enjoy your day.

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35 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Perhaps you should educate yourself on the present gun laws and realize that they are comprehensive and rarely enforced.  More doesn't mean better.  Your comment above concerning harvesting a deer showcases your Pavlovian response to anything concerning firearms.  Just a suggestion . . . . learn about this subject, realize that your being 'played', and realize that you've been drooling when a politician talks of more unnecessary gun laws.   Enjoy your day.

I followed the regulations years ago until it became clear that the gun lobby are dumb as a bag of hammers.  If you want a gun in Canada it’s not hard to buy one, and it isn’t just hunting rifles and shotguns.  I think you’re trying to say that the issue is illegal firearms and permissive judges, but illegal firearms mostly come from the legal permit holders in the states with the weakest gun control laws, where the checks are minimal, such as at gun shows.  Yes they do make it across the border illegally, but what is the origin?  It doesn’t matter.  Ultimately it’s a disagreement over whether buddy has to give up his high powered multi-round versus public safety.  It’s an easier decision than requiring seat belts for most people.  No one is banning hunting rifles or rescinding permits.  You can still line up cans behind the rusted out 78’ Buick on the back acre and shoot ‘em up.  

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33 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I followed the regulations years ago until it became clear that the gun lobby are dumb as a bag of hammers.  If you want a gun in Canada it’s not hard to buy one, and it isn’t just hunting rifles and shotguns.  I think you’re trying to say that the issue is illegal firearms and permissive judges, but illegal firearms mostly come from the legal permit holders in the states with the weakest gun control laws, where the checks are minimal, such as at gun shows.  Yes they do make it across the border illegally, but what is the origin?  It doesn’t matter. 

 

Well, turns out it does matter:

 

Quote

The majority of the illegal guns in Canada used to be smuggled across the border from the U.S., but that seems to be changing. According to police, a growing number of guns are bought legally in Canada and resold on the black market, or made here illegally.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/national-gun-trafficking-straw-buying-smuggling-firearms-1.5126228

 

Quote

Illegal guns sourced in Canada surge compared to those smuggled from U.S.

The number of guns obtained legally in Canada but are then sold to people who use them for criminal purposes has surged dramatically in recent years compared to firearms smuggled from the United States, Toronto police say.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/guns-domestic-danforth-shooting-toronto-1.4759159

 

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16 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

What does farmer, rancher, hunter have to do with anything I said?   What, you need a semi-automatic multi-round to take down a deer?   Real men don’t have to rely on tech meant for mass murder.  Sorry pal, it’s irresponsible for the state to allow civilians to pack such dangerous weapons.  Do you need C4 to catch fish?  Grow up.  

You do realize that by law "any" long barreled fire arm can only have a 5 rd magazine legally, regardless if it is a semi auto or bolt action. any other magazine that holds more than 5 rounds is illegal period, subject to having your wpn confiscated, arrest, and heavily fined. with 2 exceptions one is a semi auto M-1 Garand, which has a 8 rd internal mag well . I'm not sure what the other wpn is but it is similar...Yes they're are high capacity magazines for AR's and other wpns , but they are pinned to only hold 5 rounds...

And yes while hunting it is common to fire more than one round at a deer, or moose especially at range where the shooter might have missed the kill zone. A semi auto allows you to get back on your sight picture faster, while a bolt action requires a little more effort. I'm pretty sure you should re read those regulations , I think you'll find them very adequate, keeping you safe...Besides people don't just hunt for meat, they also hunt varmints that are a pain in the ass, racoons, etc..or coyotes, wolfs that endanger stock animals or family. a semi auto is a better tool than bolt action for these animals. 

 

Edited by Army Guy
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1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

I followed the regulations years ago until it became clear that the gun lobby are dumb as a bag of hammers.  If you want a gun in Canada it’s not hard to buy one, and it isn’t just hunting rifles and shotguns.  I think you’re trying to say that the issue is illegal firearms and permissive judges, but illegal firearms mostly come from the legal permit holders in the states with the weakest gun control laws, where the checks are minimal, such as at gun shows.  Yes they do make it across the border illegally, but what is the origin?  It doesn’t matter.  Ultimately it’s a disagreement over whether buddy has to give up his high powered multi-round versus public safety.  It’s an easier decision than requiring seat belts for most people.  No one is banning hunting rifles or rescinding permits.  You can still line up cans behind the rusted out 78’ Buick on the back acre and shoot ‘em up.  

You keep stating that this is all for public safety.... How many deaths or violent acts with semi auto or assault looking wpns has your home town had, shit lets widen it a bit, how many has Canada had...And yet you have decided that owning a semi auto wpn or an Assault looking wpn is bad and in the need for public safety we should ban it....lets take a look at some numbers.....under the influence driving killed 1, 273 people in one year.....220 people were killed with knifes in one year... 223 people were killed with a firearms in one year, NOTE they do not break it down by handgun or illegal wpns,  just that the total is 223 homicides in 2016

If I was concerned about public safety I would be going after impaired drivers, or people that own knifes.. we have already tried banning booze, how did that work out, and nobody is talking about banning knifes I mean come on... , so what is the concern here, is it really public safety....because there is an entire list of things that kill more people than fire arms in Canada, should we not prioritize them get them out of our homes, say good bye to them nice steak knifes your wife got you last year... and forget about cutting up that turkey this year, going to have to rip it apart...

Quote

In 2014, road crashes claimed an estimated 2,297 lives. Based on testing of fatally-injured drivers, it may be estimated that 1,273 (55.4%) of these deaths resulted from crashes in which an individual was positive for alcohol and/or drugs.

Quote

In 2008, 34 per cent of 611 homicides reported by police were committed with knives, a seven per cent increase from 1999 and more than double the approximately 15 per cent level of 1974, the first year for which homicide data is available.

https://madd.ca/pages/impaired-driving/overview/statistics/

 

https://www.bing.com/search?q=homicides+with+knifes+in+Canada&form=EDNTHT&mkt=en-ca&httpsmsn=1&msnews=1&plvar=0&refig=0a0f869990524fe7b9abb28839592557&sp=-1&pq=homicides+with+knifes+in+canada&sc=0-31&qs=n&sk=&cvid=0a0f86

 

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-safety-canada/news/2018/03/criminal-gun-and-gang-violence-in-canada.html

 

ncreasing number of gun crimes

While overall crime rates in Canada are much lower today than decades ago, for the third consecutive year the total number of firearm-related homicides in Canada increased, reaching 223 in 2016, 44 more than the previous year.Footnote1 Shooting has now become the most common form of homicide, surpassing homicide by stabbing and beating.Footnote2

Gang-related murders involving guns is no exception. In 2016 alone, police reported 141 gang-related homicides, 45 more than in 2015. The largest increases in the number of gang-related homicides committed with a firearm were reported in Ontario (+22) and British Columbia (+12), with the majority of these occurring in Toronto and Vancouver.Footnote3 Since 2013, firearms murders in Canada’s largest cities have almost doubled from 134 to 223.Footnote4

Gun violence is also increasing in rural areas. In Canada, three out of 10 violent gun crimes happen outside of a major city. Overall, the Territories and Saskatchewan have the highest rates of firearm-related violent crime.Footnote5

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Army Guy, your article says gun homicides are in the rise.  You may be right that far more people die because of car accidents, but if you live far from your workplace and the public transit is inadequate, especially if you have kids to take to daycare or items to deliver, there’s very little choice but to drive.  That’s not the case for owning a multi-round semi-automatic weapon.  Even the example of killing bad animals on a farm doesn’t ring true to me.  It’s rare that a big dangerous animal comes onto the property, and if it does, a shotgun should do the trick.  We used to get rid of gophers by putting golf clubs down the holes.

Farmers may not be the main culprits in gun homicides, but gangs have to get their guns from somewhere.  It’s a lot harder to conceal a rifle compared to a handgun.  Farmers and hunters don’t need handguns.   Anyway, there probably isn’t much left to do for gun control except to enforce it and stop issuing permits for a few types of weapons.   

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6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Farmers may not be the main culprits in gun homicides, but gangs have to get their guns from somewhere.  It’s a lot harder to conceal a rifle compared to a handgun.  Farmers and hunters don’t need handguns.   Anyway, there probably isn’t much left to do for gun control except to enforce it and stop issuing permits for a few types of weapons.   

Until we start overruling the judges somehow, we're not going to be able to control the smuggling, sale and purchase of stolen firearms from the US. So there's not much point worrying about the impossible task of keeping hand guns out of the hands of criminals.

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21 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Army Guy, your article says gun homicides are in the rise.  You may be right that far more people die because of car accidents, but if you live far from your workplace and the public transit is inadequate, especially if you have kids to take to daycare or items to deliver, there’s very little choice but to drive.  That’s not the case for owning a multi-round semi-automatic weapon.  Even the example of killing bad animals on a farm doesn’t ring true to me.  It’s rare that a big dangerous animal comes onto the property, and if it does, a shotgun should do the trick.  We used to get rid of gophers by putting golf clubs down the holes.

Farmers may not be the main culprits in gun homicides, but gangs have to get their guns from somewhere.  It’s a lot harder to conceal a rifle compared to a handgun.  Farmers and hunters don’t need handguns.   Anyway, there probably isn’t much left to do for gun control except to enforce it and stop issuing permits for a few types of weapons.   

Yes they are 44 more than the previous year, but we have 36 million citizens in this country, and of those only 223 are murdered by firearms, and over 7 million register fire arms...odds are pretty good that you will not be killed or murdered by a fire arm....infact you have more chance of getting run over by a drunk driver...

the stats I posted were people killed by someone under the influence, drunk or high drivers, and most people don't drink before going to work...

I get it having any firearm in your home is a choice, but when you look at the stats most, more than 99 % own , operate, and store their firearms as per the law...thats pretty good odds. 

I agree with you on handguns, I don't own one, never needed one while out hunting, but their are many that shot for sport or competition and it is getting bigger every year. So why to take that away from them, because a few hand guns go missing every year. I can't see it from your prospective, I'm sorry, if the numbers where in the thousands I'd consider it...but right now Knife murder as many people as guns do...I can't follow the logic why one has to be band but not the other...Now if you where saying law enforcement needs more resources to combat illegal guns coming into the country , i'd be right behind you...but banning firearms is not the answer, it just prevents law abiding citizens from using them...bad guys have never had a problem with getting illegal firearms...

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2 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Yes they are 44 more than the previous year, but we have 36 million citizens in this country, and of those only 223 are murdered by firearms, and over 7 million register fire arms...odds are pretty good that you will not be killed or murdered by a fire arm....infact you have more chance of getting run over by a drunk driver...

the stats I posted were people killed by someone under the influence, drunk or high drivers, and most people don't drink before going to work...

I get it having any firearm in your home is a choice, but when you look at the stats most, more than 99 % own , operate, and store their firearms as per the law...thats pretty good odds. 

I agree with you on handguns, I don't own one, never needed one while out hunting, but their are many that shot for sport or competition and it is getting bigger every year. So why to take that away from them, because a few hand guns go missing every year. I can't see it from your prospective, I'm sorry, if the numbers where in the thousands I'd consider it...but right now Knife murder as many people as guns do...I can't follow the logic why one has to be band but not the other...Now if you where saying law enforcement needs more resources to combat illegal guns coming into the country , i'd be right behind you...but banning firearms is not the answer, it just prevents law abiding citizens from using them...bad guys have never had a problem with getting illegal firearms...

But the main supply of illegal firearms is legal firearms.  No one wants to give law abiding hunters and farmers a hard time.  I’d like to know how the hell this Gabriel character got his hands on those weapons.  

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14 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

But the main supply of illegal firearms is legal firearms.  No one wants to give law abiding hunters and farmers a hard time.  I’d like to know how the hell this Gabriel character got his hands on those weapons.  

I am no expert on this subject, but I have to ask:  since "assault weapons" (and legally, that means nothing) are not the main source of gun violence in Canada, why would you be so bound and determined to even give a damn about them???   Agree, they are in now way "necessary" in some ways, but let me take you down another road that is a lesson learned from our Southern neighbours: the Liberal/liberal growth in Canadian government since Turd.....geez TRUdeau Sr. has been focused on destroying Canada's armed forces and turning them into a social engineering project - seriously compromising our ability to defend ourselves and contribute to the defensive obligations we have to the world and particularly our allies.   With the defense of Canadian soil being so highly compromised, taking the basic tools of national defense out of the hands of the public only works for me by returning the DND to a fully funded, non-socially-engineered MILITARY defense force.  Until I see that, I am in no mood to tolerate ANY reduction in my personal freedoms whatsoever and ceding them to a national government that has clearly demonstrated it works only to dispense special privilege to its friends - at the expense of its citizens.

Now, if we are prepared to be extremely and brutally honest:  take a look at WHO commits the bulk of gun crime in Canada.  If you want to fix the problem, stop bringing Asian and Caribbean drug dealers and gangs into the country - and send the offenders the FCK BACK to where they came.  Our problem is not guns,  it is drugs and gang violence that the government seems to cultivate instead of police.

Edited by cannuck
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20 minutes ago, cannuck said:

I am no expert on this subject, but I have to ask:  since "assault weapons" (and legally, that means nothing) are not the main source of gun violence in Canada, why would you be so bound and determined to even give a damn about them???   Agree, they are in now way "necessary" in some ways, but let me take you down another road that is a lesson learned from our Southern neighbours: the Liberal/liberal growth in Canadian government since Turd.....geez TRUdeau Sr. has been focused on destroying Canada's armed forces and turning them into a social engineering project - seriously compromising our ability to defend ourselves and contribute to the defensive obligations we have to the world and particularly our allies.   With the defense of Canadian soil being so highly compromised, taking the basic tools of national defense out of the hands of the public only works for me by returning the DND to a fully funded, non-socially-engineered MILITARY defense force.  Until I see that, I am in no mood to tolerate ANY reduction in my personal freedoms whatsoever and ceding them to a national government that has clearly demonstrated it works only to dispense special privilege to its friends - at the expense of its citizens.

Now, if we are prepared to be extremely and brutally honest:  take a look at WHO commits the bulk of gun crime in Canada.  If you want to fix the problem, stop bringing Asian and Caribbean drug dealers and gangs into the country - and send the offenders the FCK BACK to where they came.  Our problem is not guns,  it is drugs and gang violence that the government seems to cultivate instead of police.

I’m all for boosting the military.  You can’t wave magic wands to “send the offenders the FCK BACK”.  How many so called gang members have their Canadian citizenship?  I bet a lot.  It’s probably easier from a social engineering standpoint to put purps of gun violence together in a group that can be deported or something along those lines, but such people don’t neatly fit into such a box.  All we can really do is take away the tools that facilitate gun violence, such as handguns.   Every individual involved in such crimes has a different history.  There might be some commonalities or trends, such as poverty or lack of opportunity due to certain limitations. Maybe there’s more prevalence among certain racial groups, but targeting racial groups is wrong and creates other problems, as we learned with certain carding policies.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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15 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I’m all for boosting the military.  You can’t wave magic wands to “send the offenders the FCK BACK”.  How many so called gang members have their Canadian citizenship?  I bet a lot.  It’s probably easier from a social engineering standpoint to put purps of gun violence together in a group that can be deported or something along those lines, but such people don’t neatly fit into such a box.  All we can really do is take away the tools that facilitate gun violence, such as handguns.   Every individual involved in such crimes has a different history.  There might be some commonalities or trends, such as poverty or lack of opportunity due to certain limitations. Maybe there’s more prevalence among certain racial groups, but targeting racial groups is wrong and creates other problems, as we learned with certain carding policies.  

I think you (and of course the entire Liberal/liberal movement) live in la-la land.  YOU WILL NEVER "take away the tools".  What they do for a living and what they do with handguns and long guns is ALREADY ILLEGAL - and you can and will no do SFA about THEM - just attack the easy targets of law-abiding citizens.  What you suggest is equivalent to the drug problem - all illegal as all hell but that has been no impediment to the phenomenal growth of illegal drugs that CAUSE most of the problems that relate to gun violence.   Yes, many of the problem players now have Canadian citizenship - as a result of the total failure of our immigration policies across many governments of every political stripe.  I was being polite compared with what I would LIKE to see - that is the return of death sentence for violent crime.  Since we only lock them up in a well equipped University of Crime long enough to improve their criminal skills and associated networking for a few short years (far less if you are an aboriginal murderer) the cheapest and only permanent protection of society.  I have been a life long opponent of the death penalty, but I can see now where it can be justified.  Other option is to make jail a place nobody wants to go, but THAT will never happen

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On 4/27/2020 at 10:19 PM, Zeitgeist said:

Be sensible.  How easy do we need to make killing? 

Killing is easy, there's no way around that. You could just throw gas on people if you didn't have a rifle, or use a truck, or make a bomb like the one in Oklahoma that killed over 150 people and wounded 700. People use knives which are quieter, don't need to be reloaded, and can't be legislated. People throw acid in other people's faces now so that they live a painful, tortured life. There are far worse things than being shot.

Be sensible, changing this one law has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE NS SHOOTING CASE!

Be sensible, changing this one law WILL NOT STOP ANYONE FROM FINDING A WAY TO GO ON A KILLING SPREE.

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On 4/27/2020 at 8:08 PM, WestCanMan said:

One other thing, guns aren't the best option for terrorists either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing

The Oklahoma bomber used diesel fuel and fertilizer, neither of which can be regulated like guns can. He killed 168 people and injured 680 more.

There were also several very "successful" terrorist attacks using trucks, and as a result, there have to be concrete blockades at Christmas markets.

But let's talk about gun control every time there's a mass killing, even when it has nothingto do with current gun control laws.

Sneezing, coughing and spitting at people are the new threat. Already people have been brought up on terrorism charges during this pandemic.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/us-charges-terror-crimes-threats-spread-virus-70052376

The main killer now I think is how many lives are at risk because of many surgeries not taking place.  All while hospitals are claiming they are empty.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/all-of-our-rooms-are-empty-hospital-ers-vacant-during-pandemic-1.4918208

Quote

TORONTO -- The Emergency Department is usually one of the busiest areas of any hospital, but now many ERs are full of empty beds, as patients with ailments and injuries unrelated to coronavirus are avoiding hospitals due to pandemic fears.

“It’s so strange to walk through an emergency room with so many empty beds,” Dr. Gaurav Puri of Southlake Regional Health Centre in Newmarket told CTV News.

“Here there are no wheelchairs and all of our rooms are empty.”

Many people are afraid of the virus and won't even go to the hospital for a medical emergency.

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7 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Killing is easy, there's no way around that. You could just throw gas on people if you didn't have a rifle, or use a truck, or make a bomb like the one in Oklahoma that killed over 150 people and wounded 700. People use knives which are quieter, don't need to be reloaded, and can't be legislated. People throw acid in other people's faces now so that they live a painful, tortured life. There are far worse things than being shot.

Be sensible, changing this one law has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE NS SHOOTING CASE!

Be sensible, changing this one law WILL NOT STOP ANYONE FROM FINDING A WAY TO GO ON A KILLING SPREE.

You, Cannuck, and what I assume are other Americans on here seem to be defending or promoting something that I don’t think most Canadians want.  Fuck having handguns in circulation or any other weapons that have the sole purpose of killing people for the sake of some misplaced notion of freedom.  They aren’t for hunting.  Fine, leave the permitted weapons alone, but I don’t trust Joe Shmuck with the power to easily take a human life.  Hunting rifles won’t disappear and they can do plenty of damage.  Don’t make it easier for stupid people to wreak havoc.  

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