Entitled refugees

[Moonlight Graham]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

This to me is more about Toronto's housing out of control than any one group.  Certainly refugees will have it the worst of anyone with no network and typically low financial resources.

Any assertion that somebody's situation is easily solvable just like that, lacks empathy and sensitivity IMO.

Her situation she was complaining about is that she pays $1400 a month to a rent a filthy basement apartment and can't find cheaper.  I just did a quick google search, and there's a dozen units $800-$900 or less on Kijiji alone.  I found her a newly renovated one for $695 a month, utilities included.  So yes, her situation is easily solvable, it took me literally 3 seconds.

Anyone who pays $1400 a month for a basement apartment that's in disgusting shape is a fool.  Everyone and their mom owns an investment property in Toronto and is renting it out.  There's no shortage of rentals in Toronto, and you're also protected by rent controls.  House ownership is a different beast altogether.

[dialamah]

25 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

  I just did a quick google search, and there's a dozen units $800-$900 or less on Kijiji alone.  I found her a newly renovated one for $695 a month, utilities included.  So yes, her situation is easily solvable, it took me literally 3 seconds.

Often enough these ads for cheap, newly renovated, etc are scams.  As she is only one of thousands across Canada, especially in Toronto and Metro Vancouver, complaining about high rent and crappy properties, I'd take that google search with a huge grain of salt.  

[Michael Hardner]

29 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1.  So yes, her situation is easily solvable, it took me literally 3 seconds.

2. Anyone who pays $1400 a month for a basement apartment that's in disgusting shape is a fool.  Everyone and their mom owns an investment property in Toronto and is renting it out.   

1. Only if you go and do it for her.  Who knows what her barriers are to this conclusion ?  Are you classifying her as negligent, lazy, dishonest ?  What do you think is happening here ?
2. Everyone and their refugee mom...

[Moonlight Graham]

30 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Often enough these ads for cheap, newly renovated, etc are scams.  As she is only one of thousands across Canada, especially in Toronto and Metro Vancouver, complaining about high rent and crappy properties, I'd take that google search with a huge grain of salt.  

Absolute nonsense.  You don't even know what you're talking about.

[Rue]

19 hours ago, Argus said:

There are, it seems to me, three kinds of 'refugee'.

UN convention refugees

Refugees fleeing war and political turmoil.

Refugees fleeing poverty

From what I can see 90% of the refugees Canada takes in are not UN convention refugees. Haitians and Nigerians and Somalians, for example. Even the Afghanis, Syrians and Iraqis, with the exception of persecuted groups like Christians and Yazidis fail to match the description of a UN refugee. We are taking these people in out of a misguided notion of charity in that we can only really help a tiny fraction of the hundreds of millions in the same conditions abroad. There's nothing wrong with charity, but if we really want to be charitable we could help ten times more by funding refugee camps in neighbouring countries. That would allow people to return home when things settle down, rather than being a lifelong blight on the public purse here.

Which are a disgrace. The current crop of applicants are being given initial hearing date 2 years from now. It will be many more years of hearings and appeals before their cases are settled, and if they are rejected almost none leave. Why would they? I wouldn't.

It isn't a matter of looking down on someone but of reckoning the cost of supporting people who are unlikely to ever be self-sustaining, and who, moreover, often have violent cultural values I find appalling. Have you considered, Rue, whether or not a continued rise in the numbers of Muslims from the middle east might make the streets of Canada like those in Paris and Berlin and London, where Jews have to hide who they are or face harassment and violence in the streets? Where armed guards have to defend synagogues and Jewish schools? Because I do worry about that.

 

Yes I have. However I also consider that assuming all Muslims want to kill me is not rational.  

I get the real concerns about economic limitations, security issues, over concentration of new Canadians, assimilation issues, how we define refugees but do not ask me to join frightened people in an imaginary protective bubble you want to create which you believe will make your  boogyman go away.

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by Rue

[Rue]

17 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

It seems as though there are a lot of homeless people wandering around, and there vets that need help from the federal government that they aren't getting. 

But I can see how bringing in more refugees and giving away more money to foreign countries is still our first priority. The people who are already here can freeze/starve I guess.

No. ..but you choose however to pit these issues against each other on the assumption they compete with each other for the exact same needs. That is not necessarily the case nor does it have to be.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Rue

[Moonlight Graham]

48 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Only if you go and do it for her.  Who knows what her barriers are to this conclusion ?  Are you classifying her as negligent, lazy, dishonest ?  What do you think is happening here?

Why would I do anything for her?  I can't speak her language.  Why can't this reporter help her?  Settlement services can provide translation for her.  There's a gazillion refugee/immigrant settlement services in Toronto specifically tailored to every imaginable area/ethnicity of the world.

I don't know what's happening, other than the author of the article either lying or doing horrendous research, because a quick google search reveals that you can EASILY get a basement apartment in Toronto for under $1000.  The point of the article is a housing crisis for renters for refugees.  The author is providing evidence by featuring people who are making terrible life decisions, like the couple who have been on subsidized housing for 5 years but decided to have a toddler and baby and now are crying about their finances.

I don't know what's wrong with the lady with $1400 rent, but the problem isn't rent prices for basement apartments in Toronto.  Keep making excuses for her.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Moonlight Graham

[Marocc]

7 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

making terrible life decisions, like the couple who have been on subsidized housing for 5 years but decided to have a toddler and baby

Do I have to point out that it isn't okay to insinuate they should not have children because Canada has a housing problem? Even if it was their fault. Even if all of it was their fault — they still have a right to have children.

[Shady]

9 minutes ago, Marocc said:

Do I have to point out that it isn't okay to insinuate they should not have children because Canada has a housing problem? Even if it was their fault. Even if all of it was their fault — they still have a right to have children.

People should have children when they can take care of them and pay for them themselves.  Other people shouldn't be obligated to do so.

[Shady]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

This to me is more about Toronto's housing out of control than any one group. 

True.  But part of the reason it's out of control is the massive influx of refugees and other legal immigrants.

[Argus]

50 minutes ago, Rue said:

Yes I have. However I also consider that assuming all Muslims want to kill me is not rational. 

Who has made such an assumption? Nobody. There is, however, unquestionably a violent stream of anti-semitism which runs through much of the Muslim world. Thus as we continue to import large numbers of Muslims - with zero checks on their values, attitudes, bigotries or hatreds - that stream comes with them. There is simply no denying this. It's basic logic.There is nothing in our immigration system which even tries to determine if a prospective immigrant is a religious zealot who hates Jews, gays, and others. Thus as the percentage of Muslims in Canada rises we might well see such incidents becoming more frequent here as they have in Europe.

[WestCanMan]

52 minutes ago, Rue said:

No. ..but you choose however to pit these issues against each other on the assumption they compete with each other for the exact same needs. That is not necessarily the case nor does it have to be.

They do have the exact same needs - resources. Money for food, shelter and medical bills. 

Trudeau appears to be using the Bank of Canada to fund his campaign for a spot in the UN somewhere. Probably emperor.

[Argus]

24 minutes ago, Shady said:

True.  But part of the reason it's out of control is the massive influx of refugees and other legal immigrants.

Half a million foreign 'students' in Canada, many of whom are not actually students.

Upwards of 350k temporary foreign workers in Canada

50k refugees.

All with few or no resources, poor or no language skills desperately searching for cheap accommodation in a handful of major cities.

Plus, of course, the 320k immigrants coming in

[WestCanMan]

3 minutes ago, Argus said:

There is, however, unquestionably a violent stream of anti-semitism which runs through much of the Muslim world. Thus as we continue to import large numbers of Muslims - with zero checks on their values, attitudes, bigotries or hatreds - that stream comes with them. There is simply no denying this. It's basic logic.There is nothing in our immigration system which even tries to determine if a prospective immigrant is a religious zealot who hates Jews, gays, and others. Thus as the percentage of Muslims in Canada rises we might well see such incidents becoming more frequent here as they have in Europe.

And then when the MSM trumpets the scary new anti-Semitism statistics they'll put the blame squarely on nasty-ass crackers/conservatives. 

They'll ignore the fact that calls for genocide against Jews are routine in the certain mosques around the country (like the one where Trudeau recited the shahada), and that our PM refuses to comment on the al quds day hate rallies which happen in broad daylight, inciting fear and hatred of jews and calling for genocide.

Rule #1 in Trudeau's Hate Club - Hate Jews and crackers all you want, and then pretend that the resulting new hate crime stats are primarily coming from that quarter.  

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Shady said:

True.  But part of the reason it's out of control is the massive influx of refugees and other legal immigrants.

Why lump refugees with legal immigrants?

What about speculation, air BnB?

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Why would I do anything for her?  I can't speak her language.  Why can't this reporter help her?  

I don't know what's happening, other than the author of the article either lying or doing horrendous research, because a quick google search reveals that you can EASILY get a basement apartment in Toronto for under $1000.  

I guess you didn't read my previous post.  Nothing new here for me to comment on.

[Moonlight Graham]

2 hours ago, Marocc said:

Do I have to point out that it isn't okay to insinuate they should not have children because Canada has a housing problem? Even if it was their fault. Even if all of it was their fault — they still have a right to have children.

Canada doesn't have a housing problem, Toronto and Vancouver have a housing problem.

Everyone has a right to have babies, nobody has a right to demand the state pays for it or makes their lives perfect.  This couple wasn't in a financial position to have 2 babies, now they're paying for it, and their children suffer for it.  Shame on them.

Move to a cheaper city, set yourself up better, save some money, then have babies.  Stop being a victim and take some darn responsibility for your life.

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Why lump refugees with legal immigrants?

What about speculation, air BnB?

Price is set by supply and demand.  Demand is increased because a high # of immigrants want to move to GTA and Vancouver area.  There's other factors on price, like domestic speculation, foreign ownership speculation, cheap credit etc.

A gazillion immigrants plus more coming every year don't have a right to move to a single city and spike demand continuously making housing prices soar and then complain about housing prices.  Nobody has a human right to afford to live in Toronto in the housing conditions of their choosing.  There's a gazillion people in GTA including single moms making crappy money living in older apartment units able to make their rent and feed their kids.  Maybe these people need roommates.  Adapt or die.

[taxme]

20 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Canada's like the dumb twerp in school wandering around with the 'Kick Me' sign on his back. Everyone wants to come here 'cause we're so stupid.  

"Stupid" may be putting it a bit mild. Look as to who those "stupid twerps" put back in power again. They have to be downright stupid, and must enjoy their daily kick in the azz every day. Canada is fast becoming a country full of "stupid" offended politically correct bunch of twerps. They just sit back and watch Canada as it is being washed down the drain. It's so sad to have to be so critical of what should be a great country. What more can be said except to say goodbye old Canada, and welcome to the new Trudeau Canada. 

[taxme]

On 1/12/2020 at 9:18 AM, Shady said:

Btw, can somebody explain to new immigrants that Canada is a very big country, and that you’re allowed to live in other places than just Toronto and Vancouver.  It might help with housing costs.

Great news for all of those pro multicultural/diversity people out there in Canada land. The Trudeau liberal Canadian government has a new program in the making. It is called the " Rural Immigration Plan" which means that all of the mostly rural and northern communities will be getting more of those new immigrants and new refugees around the country. Their plan is to start getting the one million new immigrants/refugees that Trudeau plans to bring to Canada in the next two years, and start to settle them into the smaller and mostly British/European communities, and start to turn those smaller communities to start looking more non-British/European and make them more multicultural/diverse looking. They appear to want to force basically white communities to look less British and European looking. I will bet that they will not be forcing any new immigrants/refugees on Native Indian land. 

So if your community is mostly a British/European looking community for now, that is now going to change in the next few years. We can all thank Trudeau, Soros, and the Untied Nations for this new plan of flooding Canada with another one million new 3rd world immigrants/refugees to Canada in the next two years which of course will be done without our approval. But then again, when did our politicians ever ask for our approval on anything. They just tell us to sit down, shut up, and pay your dam taxes. We are the boss here, not you. We will do whatever we want to do to this country without your consent or approval. Now you know the rest of the story. 

[Rue]

4 hours ago, Argus said:

Who has made such an assumption? Nobody. There is, however, unquestionably a violent stream of anti-semitism which runs through much of the Muslim world. 

You in every thread and now in the second sentence.

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by Rue

[Rue]

Argus you now show  clearly your agenda is to promote  fear mongering about Muslims to justify not letting them come to Canada..thank you.

It is also interesting to see you mention no one but Muslims when you tell me let alone presume too tell me  who I should fear as a Jew.

At this point you fear monger.

When you have something to discuss other than your fear of Muslims let me know. It is stale.

Your using anti semitism to try justify your bigoted assumptions about Muslims is noted.

Your use of the tem much of the Muslim world to engage in a negative collective reference of all Muslims is noted  as well.

Thanks for your concern. Nice to know your fear is logical and done on my behalf.

 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by Rue

[Argus]

32 minutes ago, Rue said:

You in every thread and now in the second sentence.

Saying a violent stream of antisemitism runs through much of the Muslim world is nothing but the obvious. Don't get on your high horse when you can't even deny the truth.

And by the way, my second sentence was "Nobody."

[Argus]

28 minutes ago, Rue said:

Argus you now show your agenda is based on fear mongering about Muslims to justify not letting them come to Canada..thank you. ..

It is based on reality and truth. I really don't give a damn if my speaking truth offends your delicate sensibilities. I will continue to do so. If you ever find a case where I'm not speaking truth you can question that. Thus far you have not.

28 minutes ago, Rue said:

it is also interesting you mention no one but Muslims when you tell me I should fear them.

The discussion moved in that direction. However, I can't think of any other foreign group coming into Canada with as deep a history of antisemitism.

28 minutes ago, Rue said:

Your using anti semitism to try justify your bigoted assumptions about Muslims is noted.

My 'bigoted' assumptions about Muslims? That's an interesting way of parsing the sentence there, counselor as it doesn't actually deny that my 'bigoted assumptions' are correct.

Anti-Semitism has spread through the Islamic world like a cancer
I don’t know what is in the hearts of the two representatives. But I believe that Muslims should be particularly thoughtful when speaking about these issues because anti-Semitism has spread through the Islamic world like a cancer. (Omar and Tlaib are not responsible for this in any way, of course, but they should be aware of this poisonous climate.) In 2014, the Anti-Defamation League did a survey in more than 100 countries of attitudes toward Jews and found that anti-Semitism was twice as common among Muslims than among Christians, and it’s far more prevalent in the Middle East than the Americas.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/anti-semitism-has-spread-through-the-muslim-world-like-a-cancer/2019/02/14/1ba5b91a-30aa-11e9-8ad3-9a5b113ecd3c_story.html

New Report on Anti-Semitism in Arab World Called “Bone-Chilling”

WASHINGTON, May 7 (JTA) – “Bone-chilling” and “hair-raising” usually are terms reserved for horror movies, not research reports.

But those words are being used to describe a new report on Muslim anti-Semitism published by the American Jewish Committee.

AJCommittee officials hope the hate literature rampant in the Arab world no will longer be glossed over, but will become an issue that is acknowledged and confronted.

“We must not let such warnings go unheeded,” said David Harris, the AJCommittee’s executive director.For much of the past year, American Jewish groups have been warning of the virulent strain of Muslim anti-Semitism, particularly since the Sept. 11 terror attacks, which many in the Arab and Muslim world have tried to blame on Israel.

https://www.interfaithfamily.com/news_and_opinion/synagogues_and_the_jewish_community/new_report_on_anti-semitism_in_arab_world_called_bone-chilling/

[Argus]

In 2018, a study by the Institute for Jewish Policy Research and the Community Security Trust revealed that anti-Jewish and anti-Israel attitudes were two to four times higher among Muslims than the population in general.

Although the CST’s reports on antisemitic incidents don’t record religious affiliation, its ethnic breakdown of offenders suggests the proportion of Muslims involved is many times higher than their proportion in the population.

Surely, if a particular group is disproportionately involved in hatred of Jews the community should denounce this? In this case, it does not. It brushes it under the carpet. What it targets instead is “Islamophobia”. In other words, the people in its sights aren’t Muslim antisemites but those who call out Muslim antisemitism and extremism.

https://www.thejc.com/comment/columnists/melanie-phillips-we-must-call-out-the-muslims-who-hate-jews-1.482919