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Trudeau/Bill Blair . . . . gun control.


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11 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

He's just doing his job, but you also have a right to answer or not answer

The relevant point is 'he's just doing his job'. And I agree with him doing his job. I want him to do his job. I have no reason to make his job harder on him as long as he's polite and all he's asking is a simple question.

It's like saying "Someone can ask you the time, but even if you have a watch on your wrist you have the right to not answer them."

Yeah I know, but why would I be a dick?

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9 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Trudeau & Blair are going to ban a lot of long guns that look military . . . . and a variety of sporting long guns.  This, according to them, will curb gun crime. Trudeau & Blair are way out of their depth.  Canada has a lot of gun laws that are never used or upheld.  Trudeau and the UN are dangerous.    

Trudeau is a naive moron.  He's lived in a golden shack his whole life, gone to the best schools in the best neighbourhoods, he has no idea what's happening on the streets.

He wants to build a utopia out of a house of cards.  His BS might make for a feel-good hollywood movie but this crap don't work in reality.

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1 minute ago, Argus said:

The relevant point is 'he's just doing his job'. And I agree with him doing his job. I want him to do his job. I have no reason to make his job harder on him as long as he's polite and all he's asking is a simple question.

It's like saying "Someone can ask you the time, but even if you have a watch on your wrist you have the right to not answer them."

Yeah I know, but why would I be a dick?

You can politely refuse to answer his question.  You don't have to be a d!ck about it.  Exercising your rights is not being a dick.  That's what they want you to believe though.

The cop's job is to investigate crimes.  If there's no crime being committed, he has no business with you.  He should respect your legal rights, he's there to protect and serve you and uphold the law.  He works for you.

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8 minutes ago, Argus said:

The relevant point is 'he's just doing his job'. And I agree with him doing his job. I want him to do his job. I have no reason to make his job harder on him as long as he's polite and all he's asking is a simple question.

His job is not to arbitrarily hassle people who have committed no crimes.  He may ask you what your name is, where you're going.  It's none of the government's business.  You can say "With all due respect I'd rather not answer that question".  He may respond "Why not?".  You can say "because it's my legal right".

But you can say whatever you want.

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12 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Trudeau is a naive moron.  He's lived in a golden shack his whole life, gone to the best schools in the best neighbourhoods, he has no idea what's happening on the streets.

He wants to build a utopia out of a house of cards.  His BS might make for a feel-good hollywood movie but this crap don't work in reality.

Hey!  This just isn't about handguns in the urban/inner city, it's about every law-abiding gun owner that owns a firearm that the two twits deem as 'assault, military, or scary looking(to them) regardless of action style, mag capacity, colour, or visual style.  I live in western Canada where long guns are used regularly, and where they are considered no more important than that wheel wrench to change your tire.  Guides, outfitters, farmers/ranchers, hunters, target shooters are all in the sights of the Federal Liberals.  This is a hunting culture where I live. We eat wild game and grow our vegetables  . . . . and may 'look after things' if push comes to shove.  Every gun owner should be concerned . . . 

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4 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

We don't need the police raping our fundamental freedoms and legal rights to keep us safe.  If you want to live in 1984 or fascist China ok, i don't.  We need more cops on the streets in our cities, not the current cops stripping our rights..  Me feeling safe isn't an officer of the government with a gun on his hip and cuffs on his belt shining a light in my face asking me questions and recording all the answers on videotape and in his 1984 computer database.  You don't understand the consequences of what you're supporting.

Go check out youtube footage of the Toronto G20 protests and the fallout.

But your Ok with the criminal elements raping those same fundamental freedoms and rights to keep themselves safe, our laws we have today tie police officers hands behind their backs, and sometimes forcing them to get creative to make arrests of know criminals...Last time I checked  no one ever died getting a few questions asked of them, Cops got a job to do as well, and a lot of them do take that job seriously and do want to make our living spaces safer....hey don't need some civy getting all bent out of shape from a few questions, personally the way I see it answer the question s and go about your day, or don't answer and  spend the night locked up until your legal council gets their , I mean your paying for him or her to come down to the station,  want to waste you money being right / being a dick head or maybe just cooperate ….what harm would it be to do that...

While in Afghanistan we used to do unplanned road checks all the time, I get it it was a war zone. different time and place...but my point is they are effective, we searched for wpns large qtys of drugs and gun powder / explosive residue on hands and cloths...only difference was if you got lippy,  there you'd be taken down hard, then handed over to the Afghan police, who were known to make trouble makers disappear.... 

 

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36 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

But your Ok with the criminal elements raping those same fundamental freedoms and rights to keep themselves safe, our laws we have today tie police officers hands behind their backs, and sometimes forcing them to get creative to make arrests of know criminals...Last time I checked  no one ever died getting a few questions asked of them, Cops got a job to do as well, and a lot of them do take that job seriously and do want to make our living spaces safer....hey don't need some civy getting all bent out of shape from a few questions, personally the way I see it answer the question s and go about your day, or don't answer and  spend the night locked up until your legal council gets their , I mean your paying for him or her to come down to the station,  want to waste you money being right / being a dick head or maybe just cooperate ….what harm would it be to do that..

I'm not ok with any criminal elements.  You haven't read my other responses in this thread.  I've said in this thread I support the police and want a lot more officers hired and on the streets to curb gang violence and all crime.  The police are under-resourced, under-trained etc.

That said, a police officer can't arbitrarily arrest me and throw me in jail for not wanting to answer questions when I haven't committed a crime.  I respect the rights and jobs of the police, they should respect my rights as is their duty under the law.  I wouldn't get bent out of shape over a few questions, I just would politely refuse to answer them, I would not identity myself, I would not say where I live or "where i'm going".  As is my right.  Cops are supposed to investigate crimes, not question law-abiding civilians when no crime has taken place. Which is what carding is.

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While in Afghanistan we used to do unplanned road checks all the time, I get it it was a war zone. different time and place...but my point is they are effective, we searched for wpns large qtys of drugs and gun powder / explosive residue on hands and cloths...only difference was if you got lippy,  there you'd be taken down hard, then handed over to the Afghan police, who were known to make trouble makers disappear.... 

Of course it's effective, but it's besides the point.  I'm sure if the police were able to search everyone's house and cars whenever they want they'd catch all sorts of criminal activity.  But civilians have legal Charter rights against the government arbitrarily encroaching on their privacy and property.  If a cop pulls me over, he can ask me if he can search my car, but if i haven't done anything wrong and there's no evidence of drugs etc. i have a right to refuse the search.  The government has no business searching my car or any of my property if they have no valid reason to.  Cops are trying to catch you breaking the law, that's why they pull you over in the first place, they are not your friend, do not give them extra reasons to charge you with anything or give you a ticket.  Treat them politely and carry on.

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47 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

F@ck the police, if they demand to see ID just tell them to go f@ck themselves.

That will just escalate the situation.  Not a good strategy.  You can tell them to go eff themselves in a polite manner.  Unless they're the one being jerks, then feel free to tell them to eff off.  Then get their badge #'s and names and go to the police station and file a complaint.  The cops are public servants who are required to behave professionally and are regulated by rule of law and code of conduct like everyone else, they're not a terrorist organization that can do or say or threaten whatever you want.  They have supervisors we can complain to if they behave out of line, just like any other job.  If you obey the law and know your rights there's no reason to fear the police.

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Just now, Dougie93 said:

The police are nothing more than public sector unionized thugs for the government which also bankrupt the public purse, anybody calling to hire more of these goons is patently naive.

Would you rather have more public sector thugs running the streets or more doped-up gang-banging losers shooting each other and everyone else who gets in the crossfire?

Law, order, stability is the difference between us and every violent 3rd world craphole.

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4 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Would you rather have more public sector thugs running the streets or more doped-up gang-banging losers shooting each other and everyone else who gets in the crossfire?

Law, order, stability is the difference between us and every violent 3rd world craphole.

You're naive, the police in Canada are utterly corrupt, just like the rest of the police state government.

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9 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

You're naive, the police in Canada are utterly corrupt, just like the rest of the police state government.

I'm not saying they're not corrupt.  I'm saying choose your thugs.  Like them or not, the police are the only thing between us and mayhem.  if you want to see what happens when the thugs take over and government has no control i again direct you to most of the 3rd world.  Cuban officials are utterly corrupt too, but on the positive they do maintain law and order and you can walk the streets.

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Just now, Moonlight Graham said:

I'm not saying they're not corrupt.  I'm saying choose your thugs.  Like them or not, the police are the only thing between us and mayhem.  if you want to see what happens when the thugs take over and government has no control i again direct you to most of the 3rd world.  Cuban officials are utterly corrupt too, but on the positive they do maintain law and order and you can walk the streets.

The police are the most dangerous thugs of them all, because they are above the law.

They don't serve and protect anybody, other than themselves.

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Just now, Dougie93 said:

The police are the most dangerous thugs of them all, because they are above the law.

They don't serve and protect anybody, other than themselves.

Go watch youtube videos of a-hole cops pulling over lawyers and judges and them making cops their b!tch.  It's good entertainment.

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7 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Go watch youtube videos of a-hole cops pulling over lawyers and judges and them making cops their b!tch.  It's good entertainment.

I have wealthy white male privilege, so the police don't target me,  none the less, I don't trust them at all.

I don't cooperate with them, if they take me into custody, I'll say nothing and just call my lawyers.

SERE : Survival Evasion Resistance Extraction.

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7 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Exactly, as you should.  Good for you.

To be clear,  I do submit to their authority on the public roads, as per agreeing to upon accepting my drivers license, quid pro quo.

Just walking down the street tho, cops try to "card" me ?  GFYP

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Bear in mind that I grew around River and Gerrard in the Downtown Eastside of the 6ix

I have plenty of experience being harassed by 51 Division on the street, I've told them where to go many times.

When you grow up in the hood, you learn what the police are really like when nobody is watching them.

 

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I also have seven buddies from the army who went on to become cops, five Toronto, one OPP and a Mountie.

I've gone drinking with cops many times, I've heard all the stories from the other side, it's just like the army, they take care of each other, they don't give a shit about civilians.

They are gung-ho to bust people, sure, but that includes you, make no mistake.

When you are a soldier or a cop, you are adversarial to the civilian population, that's just the nature of being an armed agent for the state.

Civilians who are eager to spend more on either the military or police, are patently naive.

When you are a soldier or a cop, first thing you come to understand is that the government fears its own people most of all.

The political class in Canada is utterly corrupt and above the law, that corrupts everything else, particularly the police and the courts

Edited by Dougie93
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The Trudeau government will spend twice as much buying back rifles from hunters as it intends to spend combating street gangs.

The shootings plaguing cities across the country overwhelmingly involve illegal handguns smuggled in from the United States. Earlier this year the federal government promised $327 million over five years including $86 million for the Canada Border Services Agency and the RCMP to stop illegal guns entering the country.

That works out to $17 million per year to deal with the number one source of crime guns in Canada, which seems a pittance when we know this is a key part of the problem.

From the $327 million, the Trudeau government also promised $214 million to the provinces and territories as part of “Gun and Gang Violence Action Fund.” That works out to $42 million a year spread across 10 provinces and three territories. Now compare that to what the government now says is their main objective for gun control — “banning military-style assault weapons.”

Public Safety Minister Bill Blair said during the election that the government plans to outlaw a number of guns and buy back as many as 250,000 rifles from licensed gun owners at a cost of $600 million.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/lilley-trudeau-to-spend-double-disarming-hunters-than-hell-spend-fighting-gangs

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