California school shooting

[Cannucklehead]

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/shooting-reported-high-school-los-angeles-area/story%3fid=67010044

 

While I do feel sorry for the families of the victims, I have to ask why are they so stupid to bring someone like that to a hospital?  I'm sure the ambulance passed a bunch of perfect ditches along the way....

[Guest PPC2019]

I might sound as far-right on this forum, but i'm more left than the liberals on gun control. Talk radio hosts will tell Americans to buy the most powerful weapons they can get their hands on, in case the government goes Tyranical, and they need to have a civil war.

This is why common sense gun leglisation can't pass. I won't show my solidary with any idiot who thinks all citizens bare the right to own firearms.

I don't believe in the second admendment eithar. I think owning a firearm is a privelege and it should be earned. If you can't be trusted to own a firearm, you shouldn't have one period.

I think people who have serve in the arm forces should get more leeway, but even with them, it's a responsibility to own a firearm, and shouldn't be a right.

There is no reason for high capacity magazines eithar. No gun should hold more than 6 bullets. That should be sophicant for huting and self-defence.

[Yzermandius19]

1 hour ago, PPC2019 said:

I might sound as far-right on this forum, but i'm more left than the liberals on gun control. Talk radio hosts will tell Americans to buy the most powerful weapons they can get their hands on, in case the government goes Tyranical, and they need to have a civil war.

This is why common sense gun leglisation can't pass. I won't show my solidary with any idiot who thinks all citizens bare the right to own firearms.

I don't believe in the second admendment eithar. I think owning a firearm is a privelege and it should be earned. If you can't be trusted to own a firearm, you shouldn't have one period.

I think people who have serve in the arm forces should get more leeway, but even with them, it's a responsibility to own a firearm, and shouldn't be a right.

There is no reason for high capacity magazines eithar. No gun should hold more than 6 bullets. That should be sophicant for huting and self-defence.

Why do only some people have a right to self defense?

Shouldn't people who aren't very good at defending themselves have access to tools that level the playing field a little, instead of being forced to be at disadvantage?

Why do you trust the government to choose who should and shouldn't own firearms?

Edited November 15, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[dialamah]

3 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Why do you trust the government to choose who should and shouldn't own firearms?

Better to trust the government rather than individuals, only one of whom may make a less than objective decision about their own need to have a gun.  Government does not always make the right decision, but at least they are in a much better position to objectively determine someone's "need" for a gun.

[Yzermandius19]

4 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Better to trust the government rather than individuals, only one of whom may make a less than objective decision about their own need to have a gun.  Government does not always make the right decision, but at least they are in a much better position to objectively determine someone's "need" for a gun.

No better to trust individuals, pre-crime is not a justification for depriving individuals of the right to self defense. Government is an infinitely worse position to objectivity determine whether someone wants a gun. 

"Need" is irrelevant, you don't "need" to have a gun to own a gun, nor should you. The right to self defense is more important than you wishing certain people not to have guns because you feel they don't "need" it, or it would make you feel safer regardless of whether you are actually any safer.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Cannucklehead]

43 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

No better to trust individuals, pre-crime is not a justification for depriving individuals of the right to self defense. Government is an infinitely worse position to objectivity determine whether someone wants a gun. 

"Need" is irrelevant, you don't "need" to have a gun to own a gun, nor should you. The right to self defense is more important than you wishing certain people not to have guns because you feel they don't "need" it, or it would make you feel safer regardless of whether you are actually any safer.

They tried that hundreds of years ago when they said that "this land is reserved for the natives, ok"?  But did anyone listen to the government?   

No, instead they shot them.  

[bush_cheney2004]

Americans have an enumerated constitutional right to own and bear arms (unlike free abortions on demand)...this right has been affirmed by the U.S. Supreme Court.

Law abiding citizens will not lose their gun rights because of actions by criminals and the mentally ill.

Gun bans in Canada have not prevented Toronto from having a higher gun homicide rate than New York City.

[Cannucklehead]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Americans have an enumerated constitutional right to own and bear arms (unlike free abortions on demand)...this right has been affirmed by the U.S. Supreme Court.

Law abiding citizens will not lose their gun rights because of actions by criminals and the mentally ill.

Gun bans in Canada have not prevented Toronto from having a higher gun homicide rate than New York City.

Only because of the van attack.  

 In 2017, gun deaths reached their highest level since 1968 with 39,773 deaths by firearm, of which 23,854 were by suicide and 14,542 were homicides.  

[bush_cheney2004]

6 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

Only because of the van attack.  

 

 

Shootings with multiple victims are common now in Toronto....land of "strict gun laws".

Toronto put armed resource officers in high schools years ago.

Edited November 16, 2019 by bush_cheney2004

[Cannucklehead]

53 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Shootings with multiple victims are common now in Toronto....land of "strict gun laws".

Toronto put armed resource officers in high schools years ago.

And then voted it down years ago.  

Edited November 16, 2019 by Cannucklehead

[Right To Left]

7 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Americans have an enumerated constitutional right to own and bear arms (unlike free abortions on demand)...this right has been affirmed by the U.S. Supreme Court.

Law abiding citizens will not lose their gun rights because of actions by criminals and the mentally ill.

Gun bans in Canada have not prevented Toronto from having a higher gun homicide rate than New York City.

Don't forget to add that the 2nd Amendment was intended to go with that "well regulated militia," and every man of sound mind was supposed to have his gun ready to go off with his fellow militia members when they had to run out and kill some more Indians, or put down a slave revolt. 

And fwiw, New York City shouldn't have any crime at all now cause the place is crawling with cops- uniformed and plain clothes who are watching everybody on security cameras in the City. But rich New Yorkers' security needs outweigh freedoms that average New Yorkers might expect. So that's why a multi-billion dollar police force is needed to run the city!  

Toronto could have lower murder and crime rates if they are willing to invest in more policing and surveillance. That's the only way to accommodate high and growing gaps in income and wealth, where extremely rich live close to people struggling to get by and often ending up on the street.......which I sure am seeing a lot of now in Toronto!

[Right To Left]

5 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Shootings with multiple victims are common now in Toronto....land of "strict gun laws".

Toronto put armed resource officers in high schools years ago.

Like Mexico, we unfortunately live next to a country that has gone gun crazy and makes it easy and highly lucrative now (since marijuana legalization) for criminals to smuggle large amounts of guns and ammo into Canada.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Right To Left said:

Don't forget to add that the 2nd Amendment was intended to go with that "well regulated militia," and every man of sound mind was supposed to have his gun ready to go off with his fellow militia members when they had to run out and kill some more Indians, or put down a slave revolt.

 

....or kill some more redcoats and loyalists.

[Right To Left]

4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

....or kill some more redcoats and loyalists.

That too! 

[Cannucklehead]

4 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

....or kill some more redcoats and loyalists.

Yeah with a rifle, not a fully automatic via bump stocks or an rpg.  Can you hunt deer with those?  

[Rue]

On ‎11‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 6:30 PM, Cannucklehead said:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/shooting-reported-high-school-los-angeles-area/story%3fid=67010044

 

While I do feel sorry for the families of the victims, I have to ask why are they so stupid to bring someone like that to a hospital?  I'm sure the ambulance passed a bunch of perfect ditches along the way....

We humans are the only life form other than certain chimpanzees, that kill other than to hunt out of necessity. We are a deviant species detrimental to the planet because of that. No amount of regulation by governments  can repress that tendency. The only way it will end is through either genetic mutation or us wiping each other out.

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, Rue said:

We humans are the only life form other than certain chimpanzees, that kill other than to hunt out of necessity.

 

Patently false, and many other species kill their own for various reasons other than hunting/food.

Big on drama...short on facts.

 

[Moonlight Graham]

On 11/14/2019 at 6:30 PM, Cannucklehead said:

While I do feel sorry for the families of the victims, I have to ask why are they so stupid to bring someone like that to a hospital?  I'm sure the ambulance passed a bunch of perfect ditches along the way....

Paramedics aren't judge, jury, and executioner.

[Moonlight Graham]

16 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Shootings with multiple victims are common now in Toronto....land of "strict gun laws".

Toronto put armed resource officers in high schools years ago.

The illegal guns come from the US.

The people in Toronto who fire them are mainly low income immigrants, mostly refugees or children of refugees, that live in poor neighbourhoods and join gangs etc.  We let these losers in the country because our compassion makes us feel good while decaying our neighbourhoods.

[dialamah]

13 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

The illegal guns come from the US.

The people in Toronto who fire them are mainly low income immigrants, mostly refugees or children of refugees, that live in poor neighbourhoods and join gangs etc.  We let these losers in the country because our compassion makes us feel good while decaying our neighbourhoods.

Studies and statistics show exactly the opposite:  immigrants and their children show lower levels of crime and violence than third+ generation Canadians.   However, once they get to the third generation, crime and violence are equal - white or black.  

Low income people of *any* stripe tend to have more crime and violence in their community.  If there are a higher percentage of black/brown people who are low-income by the third generation, that speaks to something other than 'where they came from' - it's a societal problem.

But blaming them directly does take the heat off the elite/privileged in our society to actually do anything, so there's that.  Pretty happy I'm white/elite/privileged (though not rich) - I get to walk around the street daily and not even be suspected of being ungrateful for the Canadian way of life, a fanatic or a criminal, and no chance that some stranger will yell at me for not being "Canadian".

[Yzermandius19]

15 hours ago, Right To Left said:

Don't forget to add that the 2nd Amendment was intended to go with that "well regulated militia," and every man of sound mind was supposed to have his gun ready to go off with his fellow militia members when they had to run out and kill some more Indians, or put down a slave revolt. 

And fwiw, New York City shouldn't have any crime at all now cause the place is crawling with cops- uniformed and plain clothes who are watching everybody on security cameras in the City. But rich New Yorkers' security needs outweigh freedoms that average New Yorkers might expect. So that's why a multi-billion dollar police force is needed to run the city!  

Toronto could have lower murder and crime rates if they are willing to invest in more policing and surveillance. That's the only way to accommodate high and growing gaps in income and wealth, where extremely rich live close to people struggling to get by and often ending up on the street.......which I sure am seeing a lot of now in Toronto!

It's the right of the people to keep and bear arms that shall not be infringed, not the right of the militia to keep and bear arms that shall not be infringed.

[bush_cheney2004]

4 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

The illegal guns come from the US.

 

Some of the illegal guns come from the U.S.

...others come from Canada...oh my !

 

Quote

The majority of the illegal guns in Canada used to be smuggled across the border from the U.S., but that seems to be changing. According to police, a growing number of guns are bought legally in Canada and resold on the black market, or made here illegally.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/national-gun-trafficking-straw-buying-smuggling-firearms-1.5126228

 

[Shady]

18 hours ago, Cannucklehead said:

Yeah with a rifle, not a fully automatic via bump stocks or an rpg.  Can you hunt deer with those?  

Fully automatic weapons are illegal in the United States and have been for decades. So are RPGs, etc.  The vast majority of gun violence is committed with hand guns.

[Moonlight Graham]

13 hours ago, dialamah said:

Studies and statistics show exactly the opposite:  immigrants and their children show lower levels of crime and violence than third+ generation Canadians.   However, once they get to the third generation, crime and violence are equal - white or black.  

I'm not talking about immigrants.  I'm talking about low income immigrants, specifically in Toronto.  Go take a drive through the poorest and most crime infested areas in Toronto, places like Rexdale, Jane and Finch, parts of Scarborough...and tell me who's living there.

Quote

Low income people of *any* stripe tend to have more crime and violence in their community.

True.  I'm talking about Toronto.  The lowest income groups with the least education in Toronto are mainly made up of refugees from North Africa or sub-Saharan Africa (Nigeria, Somalia, Sudan, Eritrea etc).  Many of them are poorly educated and have problems even speaking English.  Speaking English is not a requirement for refugee status.  Try finding a good job not able to speak English.  I work with the immigrant community.  I talk to migrants every single day wanting help making refugee claims. I know what I'm talking about.

Quote

If there are a higher percentage of black/brown people who are low-income by the third generation, that speaks to something other than 'where they came from' - it's a societal problem.

Horsesh!t.  It's not about race or skin colour, it's about culture.  Some cultures do not put much emphasis on education, while others do, generation after generation.  ie: Asians, Jews, and many south Asians kick whitey's ass in academics and average income, while sub-saharan and many carribean cultures lag well behind.  That said, we shouldn't decide to let in or not let in people into Canada based on where they come from, it should be based on their chances of economic success here re: education, skills, language proficiency etc

[Cannucklehead]

8 hours ago, Shady said:

Fully automatic weapons are illegal in the United States and have been for decades. So are RPGs, etc.  The vast majority of gun violence is committed with hand guns.

Across the country, several people have sued the federal government over the ban, Blackman said, though the Supreme Court in March refused to block the ban from going into effect.

“The Trump administration reinterpreted the definition of automatic weapons and say the bump stock is covered by the statute,” he said. “My read of statute is that bump stock does not violate National Firearms Act.”

If defense attorneys successfully challenge the validity of the ban, that would have “nationwide scope,” he said.

 

Bump stocks were made illegal just recently due to the Vegas shooting but trump wants to bring them back.