One of Canada's last big oil producers leaves

[Moonlight Graham]

8 hours ago, jacee said:

In case you haven't heard ... oil is becoming less valuable, now that we know the full cost of it is destruction of the planet and human life. 

The gravy train is over.

That's not how the market price for oil works.  Oil will only become less valuable when demand goes down or supply increases.  Demand for oil doesn't decrease because people think oil is gross and icky and polluting, it goes down when people physically buy less of it.  That hasn't started much yet, hopefully it will soon though with rise of EVs.

[Moonlight Graham]

8 hours ago, jacee said:

= we need to stop producing and shipping it anywhere in the world.

Not sure how this would happen.  Force AB to stop producing oil and making tons of money from it and they'll separate from Canada, without a doubt.  Your friend Elizabeth May never thought that through, like many of her plans.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Moonlight Graham

[Cannucklehead]

8 hours ago, jacee said:

= we need to stop producing and shipping it anywhere in the world.

Wont happen anytime soon.  1st world countries may be able to go fully electric soon but 2nd and 3rd wont be able to for a very long time.   By the looks of things 1st world countries will be still using fossil fuels for another 10-20 years minimum.   

[eyeball]

7 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Because you do.  I'm arguing in kind.

You're arguing both sides.

Quote

You are one of many who think that climate change can be fought if only "we do something".  It's absolute nonsense.

As opposed to thinking it can be fought if only 'we do nothing'?

Quote

I try and get you to see it, but it's very difficult.

It's impossible the way you go about it.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

You're arguing both sides.

No I'm not.

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

As opposed to thinking it can be fought if only 'we do nothing'?

Same result.

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

It's impossible the way you go about it.

Fair enough.  I know when I'm flogging a dead horse.

[Yzermandius19]

The argument isn't between those who think "we should do something" versus those who think "we should do nothing".

The argument is between those who think government central planning is the only acceptable version of "doing something" versus those who believe the solutions that work the worst are government central planning. Don't let the envirocommies take the high ground by making it about "doing something" versus "doing nothing" that is the only way they can sell their central planning government power grab trojan horse to the rubes, under the guise of environmentalism.

Feeling like you are helping the environment, and actually helping the environment, can be two completely different things. The fake environmentalists are often unable to understand the difference and support doing harm in the name of helping because they don't even realize they are being counter-productive. In other cases it's just a ruse, they know they are being counter-productive to the environmentalist cause, but they are just using that cause to push their extremist policies because the extremism sounds better when cloaked in environmentalism.

Make the argument about them being fake environmentalists, who care more about government control over people's lives and derailing free market capitalism than they care about the environment, whether that is their direction intention or not, because those are the outcomes of their plans to "do something". If you don't agree with their counter-productive public policy proposals, they act like you are a science denier, as if their policy proposals have anything to do with science.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Abies]

On 11/1/2019 at 10:02 AM, Moonlight Graham said:

Canada accounts for 1.6% of the world's total GHG emissions.  Of that 1.6%, the oil sands make up 10% of Canada's total, meaning the oil sands make up only 0.16% of total global GHG emissions. https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/publications/18731

If the entire oil sands were shut down it would barely make a dent in reducing global GHG.  We need to stop burning fossil fuels globally.

Per capita we produce quite a bit of emissions.

[Abies]

Also Encana was shifting to the US during Harper’s time as PM so it is strange to blame JT.

[Argus]

43 minutes ago, Abies said:

Per capita we produce quite a bit of emissions.

Because we're a developed country which gets very cold in winter and very hot in summer, and because it's large and we're spread out more, and because we have an oil industry.

None of that suggests we are somehow more guilty of global warming than someone living in Jamaica, nor that we have some kind of white man's burden to bankrupt ourselves in order to save the third world the effort.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Argus

[eyeball]

21 hours ago, Cannucklehead said:

Wont happen anytime soon.  1st world countries may be able to go fully electric soon but 2nd and 3rd wont be able to for a very long time.   By the looks of things 1st world countries will be still using fossil fuels for another 10-20 years minimum.   

Oh c'mon I'm quite certain we'll be able to stretch that out to 40 years or more.  It might as well be us because if we don't someone else will right?

Edited November 5, 2019 by eyeball

[Moonlight Graham]

5 hours ago, Abies said:

Per capita we produce quite a bit of emissions.

It's not because we're a bunch of wasters.  No other advanced economic country in the world has a population base so widely spread out.

[bush_cheney2004]

8 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

It's not because we're a bunch of wasters.  No other advanced economic country in the world has a population base so widely spread out.

 

A different perspective....

Why are Canadians the world’s energy pigs?

 

Why are Canadians the world’s energy pigs?

[Abies]

On 11/5/2019 at 3:51 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

It's not because we're a bunch of wasters.  No other advanced economic country in the world has a population base so widely spread out.

In 2017, the oil and gas sector and transportation sector were the largest GHG emitters in Canada. Together, they accounted for 52% of total emissions.

https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/environmental-indicators/greenhouse-gas-emissions.html

[Abies]

On 11/5/2019 at 10:45 AM, Argus said:

Because we're a developed country which gets very cold in winter and very hot in summer, and because it's large and we're spread out more, and because we have an oil industry.

None of that suggests we are somehow more guilty of global warming than someone living in Jamaica, nor that we have some kind of white man's burden to bankrupt ourselves in order to save the third world the effort.

That isn't what causes majority of our emissions. The oil and gas sector and transportation contributes the most. 

Vast majority live in and around the cities. People most certainly have access to other alternative heating sources and transportation sources.

[Argus]

32 minutes ago, Abies said:

That isn't what causes majority of our emissions. The oil and gas sector and transportation contributes the most. 

Vast majority live in and around the cities. People most certainly have access to other alternative heating sources and transportation sources.

45% comes from heating our homes and businesses, and 28% comes from transportation.

Only 7.8% comes from the oil and gas industry. Which is just under the 8% from agriculture.

http://prairieclimatecentre.ca/2018/03/where-do-canadas-greenhouse-gas-emissions-come-from/

[Cannucklehead]

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/05/03/which-countries-use-the-most-fossil-fuels/#gallery_3

 

We barely even come close to the u.s. or china.  

I bet the u.s. will pass china soon(if they havent already)  

[Abies]

40 minutes ago, Argus said:

45% comes from heating our homes and businesses, and 28% comes from transportation.

Only 7.8% comes from the oil and gas industry. Which is just under the 8% from agriculture.

http://prairieclimatecentre.ca/2018/03/where-do-canadas-greenhouse-gas-emissions-come-from/

from your source:

By far the largest source of GHG emission in Canada comes from the combustion of fossil fuels to make energy, including heat and electricity.

Mining, oil and gas, and manufacturing are collectively responsible for the largest slice of this pie, followed closely by houses, shops, schools and other private and public buildings. It is important to note that the total emission from the oil and gas sector cover multiple categories, meaning these numbers only tell part of the story.

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, Abies said:

"In 2017, the oil and gas sector and transportation sector were the largest GHG emitters in Canada. Together, they accounted for 52% of total emissions."

https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/environmental-indicators/greenhouse-gas-emissions.html

Shipping a product or taking a plane from one end of the country to the other is much further in Canada than it is in the UK.  Having low population density makes everything more expensive and carbon-consuming.  It's due to technology limitations and population density/geography, not because we just like to waste things.

[cougar]

On 10/31/2019 at 5:19 PM, Argus said:

Thanks to Justin Trudeau, and his shallow, self-serving environmental bullshit.

After your opening line I need read no more.

Good riddance!

 

[Guest PPC2019]

What do you expect, when you can't get a coherent policy out of Justin Trudeau. Investors hate confusion.

[Argus]

On 11/6/2019 at 10:05 PM, Abies said:

from your source:

mining, oil and gas, and manufacturing are collectively responsible for the largest slice of this pie, followed closely by houses, shops, schools and other private and public buildings. It is important to note that the total emission from the oil and gas sector cover multiple categories, meaning these numbers only tell part of the story.

 The point being that your contention that getting rid of oil and gas industries will significantly lower CO2 emissions is not correct.  All the above says is that the largest slice of the 45% of CO2 emissions attributable to heating and energy is for powering and heating industry, including the oil and gas industry. Or do you think getting rid of these industries will simply leave all the workers sitting a home? Because presumably they'll be replaced by some other industry, which will still need to heat and power its facilities.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Argus

[jacee]

On 11/4/2019 at 10:38 AM, WestCanMan said:

That's a fine political speech, but just a farce of an actual, concise commentary of what happened. Oil is still being extracted at 100% production all over the world, everywhere but in Alberta and Sask. All over the world oil still sells for "the price of oil". Alberta oil sells at roughly 50% of what it's worth, sometimes less. 

Trudeau did do this to Alberta and you're the only one denying it.

Nonsense. Albertans are wasting time and anger blaming Trudeau. He did what people elected him to do. That's democracy. 

There was and is no public will, no social license, no public consent for anymore pipelines in Canada: If oil gets piped and shipped, it gets burned somewhere. Emissions from burning oil anywhere in the world are like peeing in the pool: It affects the entire planet. Canadians know that, and voted to stop that. I don't expect that Trudeau will be able to finish TMX either. That's democracy, the will of the people.  

Albertans who are planning and prepping for their future beyond the oil industry will do ok. Those who continue their dependency on the oil industry may not. It's a personal choice. Nobody can blame Trudeau or anyone else if they fail to inform themselves, fail to manage their own future. 

Only one of us is guilty of supporting violent groups like BLM and Antifa. 

Only white supremacists refer to antifa and BLM as "violent", and including BLM exposes you as such. (It's not a Canadian issue.)

Antifa are trained and skilled in defensive tactics. It really angers volatile white supremacists, when their rage, intimidation and violence are ably diverted.

Oh well. 

Brains over brawn. Lol 

Edited November 9, 2019 by jacee

[Argus]

1 hour ago, jacee said:

Nonsense. Albertans are wasting time and anger blaming Trudeau. He did what people elected him to do. That's democracy. 

There was and is no public will, no social license, no public consent for anymore pipelines in Canada:

There is not a majority in any province for denying needed pipelines. The highest number is 40% against in Quebec. In Ontario 61% want the transmountain to go ahead vs just 19% who want it stopped.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5416520/majority-canadians-support-liberals-trans-mountain-pipeline-decision-poll/

Only white supremacists refer to antifa and BLM as "violent", and including BLM exposes you as such. (It's not a Canadian issue.)

Only authoritarians on the far left would suggest people accusing ANTIFA of violence are white supremacists. This is because being fanatics they equate anyone who disagrees with them with the worst of humanity. With the fanatic left, you're either 100% in agreement with them on every single issue or you are as bad as Adolph Hitler. There is no room for in between with zealots.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Argus

[eyeball]

28 minutes ago, Argus said:

With the fanatic left, you're either 100% in agreement with them on every single issue or you are as bad as Adolph Hitler. There is no room for in between with zealots.

That explains why conservatives like Argus make references to Pol Pot and Mao whenever lefties deign to criticize a right wing precept.

[jacee]

On 11/4/2019 at 3:47 PM, Argus said:

Modern societies are predicated on lots of cheap energy. Right now that's fossil fuels. Without it, hundreds of millions more would live in utter poverty.

Profitability in the free market will change that very soon. And it will change very quickly.