Handguns and Assault Rifles

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

Ouch. 

It makes sense though I guess.

When I was in basic they taught us that injuring enemies was better than killing because of the manpower involved in rescuing them, giving them medical attention, flying them home, maybe giving them pensions, disability, etc.

This is why shotguns were prohibited by the Hague convention for use against lawful combatants, those being uniformed soldiers of a sovereign nation.

They are considered too inhumane to use against lawful soldiers, because even the enemy deserves a fighting chance if he makes it to the hospital if he volunteered to fight lawfully.

The shotgun wounds in a way which makes it much harder for the surgeons to save you, because instead of one penetration wound, it's a bunch of little holes everywhere, so you bleed out internally before they can find them all and stop the bleeding.

[Dougie93]

Bear in mind that the objective of war is not to kill people, the objective is to win the war by imposing a resolution by force of arms.

The ultimate victory, is called a coup de main, where you win the war so quickly and deftly that it is resolved nary a shot fired or as close to as possible.

A recent example of a coup de main was the Russian seizure of Crimea by the Little Green Men of Spetsnaz GRU, or 'Special Purpose Troops of the Main Intelligence Directorate' (of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation)

[Zeitgeist]

6 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Even the Ivory Tower academics of Toronto are undermining them.

A U of T criminology professor just came out and stated on the CBC that a handgun ban would have little to no effect because the guns are illegal and smuggled in and the USA is only three hours away, and that the real problem in these Toronto neighborhoods is poverty,

Then he said the government should do something about that poverty to reduce the gun violence, but that part is naive.

Because the poverty is incited by Canada not actually being a dynamic economy which lifts all boats, but rather a moribund economy which is run by the government on behalf of narrowly vested interests, like say the Irving Family, or Unifor.

So the Canadian economy only lifts those boats while leaving the lowest classes behind, in an increasing cost of living crisis, being worsened by the elites raising the price of everything in the name of a Climate Crisis.

You’re way off.  Have you seen the abject poverty in some US cities and the desperation that poor renters face through brutal eviction policies and a justice system that treads on the poor.  Read the book Evicted by Matthew Desmond.

Toronto is a booming city with a very dynamic economy and growing tech sector.  It’s by far the fastest growing city in North America.  The real estate boom has added substantially to housing costs, but that’s largely a byproduct of people wanting to move to Toronto.  

I’ve said many times that Canada doesn’t have a population rise problem or an immigration problem; it has a population distribution problem, with too many people moving to Toronto and Vancouver.  

[bush_cheney2004]

6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You’re way off.  Have you seen the abject poverty in some US cities and the desperation that poor renters face through brutal eviction policies and a justice system that treads on the poor.  Read the book Evicted by Matthew Desmond.

Toronto is a booming city...

 

Toronto is booming for sure, from the sounds of gunfire from so many shootings....and growing.

Studies have also demonstrated that many of the illegal guns are stolen and sold on the black market within Canada...no U.S. border required.

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Toronto is booming for sure, from the sounds of gunfire from so many shootings....and growing.

Studies have also demonstrated that many of the illegal guns are stolen and sold on the black market within Canada...no U.S. border required.

Still not as desperate as the US of A for gun violence — yet. That’s why we need more gun control ASAP.  It may be too late for the US to turn around its gun problems.  We’re not there yet in Canada but that could change.  

[bush_cheney2004]

5 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Still not as desperate as the US of A for gun violence — yet. That’s why we need more gun control ASAP.  It may be too late for the US to turn around its gun problems.  We’re not there yet in Canada but that could change.  

 

The US has nothing to "turn around"....gun ownership is a constitutional right.

Don't worry...you can continue to point at the United States to make it better in Canada...as always.

But Toronto's poverty and gentrification will still continue as well...along with the shootings (14 this past holiday weekend...impressive !).

 

[cannuck]

21 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

I am aware of the history of the CCF and the NDP, but that doesn't alter the fact that the Liberal Party of Canada has successfully entrenched itself into every organ of government, so that no matter who you vote for, they will do what the Liberals do, once in power. 

Doesn't matter what these NDP clowns say they are going to do, they are not going to be allowed to deviate significantly from the Liberals anymore than the Cuckservatives would be, and that goes for the Greens too.

The Elite consensus in Canada, is the Liberals.

No matter who you vote for, all roads lead to the Liberal consensus which can never be voted out.

All the opposition parties in Canada are fake, it's a fake opposition, it's a bait and switch.

It's the same as it is in Russia, the Liberals are a Deep State, like the Siloviki, the RCMP is Canada's FSB.

The Liberals employ the exact same strategy as Putin, play on peoples fears of the Americans so they will rally around your blatant police state corruption.

The job of the CBC state propaganda arms in Canada is to whip up these fears of the Americans to facilitate that, same as in Russia.

Dougie, you're no fun at all.   I can't disagree with you, try as I might.

[cannuck]

3 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The US has nothing to "turn around"....gun ownership is a constitutional right.

Don't worry...you can continue to point at the United States to make it better in Canada...as always.

But Toronto's poverty and gentrification will still continue as well...along with the shootings (14 this past holiday weekend...impressive !).

 

You bring me to think of this in a far different way.  I don't know if you ever had much to do with NYC in the '60s or '70s, but I can vividly recall the level of gun crimes, and crime in general.  It made Somalia seem like a nice beach resort.  Rudy didn't clean that mess up by controlling the guns, he did it by controlling the criminals.  We really CAN learn from our Southern neighbours.  The problems in Toronto are largely due to street gangs (most of whom are there due to really stupid and inept immigration policies not just from the present, but for many administrations past...and here is where Dougie's comments about liberal/Liberals being entrenched in the bureaucracy are spot on).

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, cannuck said:

You bring me to think of this in a far different way.  I don't know if you ever had much to do with NYC in the '60s or '70s, but I can vividly recall the level of gun crimes, and crime in general.  It made Somalia seem like a nice beach resort.  Rudy didn't clean that mess up by controlling the guns, he did it by controlling the criminals.  We really CAN learn from our Southern neighbours.  The problems in Toronto are largely due to street gangs (most of whom are there due to really stupid and inept immigration policies not just from the present, but for many administrations past...and here is where Dougie's comments about liberal/Liberals being entrenched in the bureaucracy are spot on).

But that’s incorrect.  Canada has a better immigration system than the US lottery.  We use a point system based on skills and country needs.  Where we have taken a big financial hit is in accepting more refugees than the US and many European countries, but there’s a strong moral argument to make that Canada is helping displaced and vulnerable people, as well as —and this is the story the right doesn’t like to hear— providing stability in the world.  If all countries took the position of the US on Syrian immigration, we would have seen more slaughter and poverty in Syria.  

Also, Toronto’s gun homicides are still far short of most similar-sized US cities like Chicago.  That doesn’t mean it isn’t a problem.  If anything governments in Canada should be scrambling to address gun violence.  

Giuliani’s “broken windows” theory that going after the little things like graffiti, hopping over subway turnstiles without paying,  and keeping on top of repairs will bring down overall crime is probably true, and we do it in Toronto, even if the theory has been debunked by experts on demographics who point to birth control as the single largest reason for the decline in overall crime from the 70’s to the 2000’s.  Overall crime trends are down in most North American cities.  That doesn’t mean the uptick in shootings should be ignored.  That particular trend is a serious problem.  

Edited August 7, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

2 hours ago, cannuck said:

Dougie, you're no fun at all.   I can't disagree with you, try as I might.

I am simply a Loyalist,  counterrevolutionary against a de facto Bolshevist overthrow of the British Crown in North America by urbane elites.

[bush_cheney2004]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

But that’s incorrect.  Canada has a better immigration system than the US lottery. 

 

Relevance to firearms control ?    The U.S. has more immigrants/refugees than Canada's entire population, but gun homicides are still way down, even with far more guns per capita in possession.

 

Quote

Also, Toronto’s gun homicides are still far short of most similar-sized US cities like Chicago.  That doesn’t mean it isn’t a problem.  If anything governments in Canada should be scrambling to address gun violence. 

 

Agreed...Toronto has plenty of problems, as do several other cities in Canada (e.g. Winnipeg).  The gun trafficking is not just from across the border.   Canadian government could ban handguns and "assault rifles" today, but there is no political will to do so.   Americans have the right to own and bear firearms...Canadians don't but still many want them anyway.    

 

[Dougie93]

Well also Colt Canada in Kitchener needs the customers.

It's the small arms manufacturer for the government, and they need the civilian sales to keep it going in between major government purchases.

So not only is the government not preventing me from having a C8 Armalite, they are lobbied me to buy one, as a patriotic sort of thing, buy Canadian.

Mind you, again, the Non-Restricted Norinco M14 Battle Rifle for $600, is the value pick that can't be beat.

Norinco is one of the few things that American gun owners would want that Canada has, because Americans would love to pick up an M14 clone for $450 USD.

[Dougie93]

This is basically what a Canadian arsenal looks like;

Remington 870 Slide Action Shotgun (Non-Restricted)

Norinco M14 Battle Rifle (Non-Restricted)

Colt Canada C8 Carbine (Restricted)

Smith & Wesson Model 686 Revolver (Restricted)

The Restricted weapons can only be used on the range, or your property, for the purposes of;
 

Quote

 

There are a few purposes for which individuals can be licensed to acquire or possess a restricted firearm, the most common being target practice or target shooting competitions, or as part of a collection.

In limited circumstances, restricted firearms are also allowed for use in connection with one's lawful profession or occupation, or to protect life.

 

 

[Dougie93]

And that is actually more heavily armed than most Americans, most Americans are not packing that much heat.

[WestCanMan]

13 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Bear in mind that the objective of war is not to kill people, the objective is to win the war by imposing a resolution by force of arms.

The ultimate victory, is called a coup de main, where you win the war so quickly and deftly that it is resolved nary a shot fired or as close to as possible.

A recent example of a coup de main was the Russian seizure of Crimea by the Little Green Men of Spetsnaz GRU, or 'Special Purpose Troops of the Main Intelligence Directorate' (of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation)

If that had happened during Trump's tenure the American MSM would have freaked and blamed Trump. There was also the incident where "Ukranian separatists" attacked along the border and were mysteriously supported by a Russian army supply chain. 

The world was going to hell in a handbasket when Obama was asleep at the helm, or too busy bloviating to notice anything. 

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

If that had happened during Trump's tenure the American MSM would have freaked and blamed Trump. There was also the incident where "Ukranian separatists" attacked along the border and were mysteriously supported by a Russian army supply chain. 

The world was going to hell in a handbasket when Obama was asleep at the helm, or too busy bloviating to notice anything. 

Oh no, Obama wasn't asleep, Obama provoked it; by deploying ballistic missile defense in the Black Sea theater and then assisting the overthrow of Russia's proxy government in Kiev.

[Dougie93]

Contrary to popular myth, Obama was a hawk, the GOP may have incited Cold War Two in 2006, but Obama took it to a whole nother level, Obama didn't like Putin, they didn't get along, and Obama went after him, so Putin started fighting back.

[Dougie93]

Also contrary to popular myth, Trump is not deescalating. 

The Missile Defense Agency is expanding BMD at a pace, and now the INF treaty has collapsed, which means the Americans are now clear to deploy Nuclear Tomahawk in the Aegis Ashore system in Romania, which is where the brink of war will come,  when it inevitably comes on this trajectory.

[WestCanMan]

7 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Contrary to popular myth, Obama was a hawk, the GOP may have incited Cold War Two in 2006, but Obama took it to a whole nother level, Obama didn't like Putin, they didn't get along, and Obama went after him, so Putin started fighting back.

If he was so shrewd and such a hawk, do you think that he actually wanted islamic state to grow to a medium-sized country, and to have the US awash in a sea of rioting, looting, arson and racial division? Neither would surprise me, especially the latter. He did a lot to fan that spark into a roaring flame.

[WestCanMan]

2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Also contrary to popular myth, Trump is not deescalating. 

The Missile Defense Agency is expanding BMD at a pace, and now the INF treaty has collapsed, which means the Americans are now clear to deploy Nuclear Tomahawk in the Aegis Ashore system in Romania, which is where the brink of war will come,  when it inevitably comes on this trajectory.

I think Trump is playing the middle east like a fiddle. He is provoking Iran from many sides, and he managed to look like a good guy while bombing Syria twice. 

[Dougie93]

Just now, WestCanMan said:

I think Trump is playing the middle east like a fiddle. He is provoking Iran from many sides, and he managed to look like a good guy while bombing Syria twice. 

I don't think he's particularly interested in it, I think he leaves it to people like Mike Pompeo and John Bolton while Trump focuses entirely on winning the election.

[Dougie93]

Hiring crazy John Bolton was a smart move, because Bolton is the ultimate Neoconservative Hawk, so that has gotten the National Security Consensus back onside and neutralized the Never Trumps in the process.

[Spiderfish]

On 8/6/2019 at 1:03 AM, Zeitgeist said:

This and anything like it should be banned immediately.  Absolutely no justification for it.  

So....I'll repeat my previous question to you since you apparently conveniently missed it...

 

Would you ban this? It's not black and it's a very popular hunting rifle.

[WestCanMan]

7 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I don't think he's particularly interested in it, I think he leaves it to people like Mike Pompeo and John Bolton while Trump focuses entirely on winning the election.

A great leader puts great people in roles where they excel and doesn't micro-manage. They just manage to follow the best advice given.

Trump had an advantage over the rest of us by growing up in that kind of environment.

[Dougie93]

Of course he's going to ban the Mini-14, once he finds out what it is.

But again, it's a popgun compared to the Norinco M305