Bill C69 is harmful

[Ell]

Let's hope Kenney can stop this ridiculous attack on Prosperity.  If it passes in its current form it will ruin Canada.  Right now, the continual delays and lack of action to support the resource industry is preventing many families from earning a good living. It is ruining Canada and it will get worse unless industry and resources are supported.  The Provinces should be in control of their resources and the Feds need to quit interfering.  Confederation between provinces has no room for bad politics.  Canada needs to keep building.  Of course safety and integrity should be top priority.  It was the resource industry that built this nation.  Rex Murphy knows that as well, and I have a lot of respect for Rex.  Alberta saved a lot of Newfoundland peoples lives in the 90's when the Feds completely stopped the fisheries.  We should not put our heads in the sand.  We need to continue development and progress.  Development does not happen merely by halting something.  You don't weaken yourself to make yourself stronger.  A good example of environmental progress is High Tech Carbon capture.  Coal Burning Carbon capture.  Canada recently shared that technology with Americans and China.  This will no doubt have a bigger influence in world environment then any other measures would do.  

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Ell said:

Let's hope Kenney can stop this ridiculous attack on Prosperity.

Alberta's main argument seems to be that provinces should be in control of the management of their natural resources and that Ottawa should get out of their way.

Interesting that you should mention prosperity, fish, Alberta and the feds in the same breath because like Newfoundland, BC is not in control of the fish that a good part of its prosperity depends on - a resource that tellingly stands to be most at peril in the event of an oil spill.  BC's fisheries have also been just as mismanaged as Newfoundland's and for much the same reason, their expendability to political and economic whims based in Ottawa.

I wonder if Kenney would support placing control of marine resources in the hands of maritime provinces that are most dependent on them given the likelihood that having such control would probably make it a lot easier for them to directly protect those resources without Ottawa getting in the way?   

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by eyeball

[Ell]

Good point on the BC fisheries.  We can't be scared of "what ifs".  Moving forward requires effort and faith.  We already have a pipeline in place but are just increasing its capacity.  Precautions are obviously in place and are the highest priority.  If a spill were to occur then we need to have strategies in place to mitigate it.  While we argue about all of this, some other country is eating our lunch while we sit back and fade away into history.  

[eyeball]

43 minutes ago, Ell said:

Good point on the BC fisheries. 

Always is.

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We can't be scared of "what ifs".

Yes we can, there has never been a mega-project undertaken in BC that hasn't resulted in ruined fish habitat.

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Moving forward requires effort and faith.

 

I have zero faith.

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We already have a pipeline in place but are just increasing its capacity.

Use it to send finished products.  I'm not interested in facilitating the growth and expansion of China's government and economic oligarchy or sending it to countries with poor environmental and human right's standards.  

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Precautions are obviously in place and are the highest priority. If a spill were to occur then we need to have strategies in place to mitigate it.

 

I don't believe it. There are a number of weather buoys important to navigation and shipping off Canada's west coast that have been out of service for a year now.  If they can't even fix an aid to navigation that will be used to guide oil tankers why should I believe they'll be able to respond to a tanker incident? I was here when 20 x 20 foot pancakes of heavy oil washed ashore on Vancouver Island's west coast, then we watched officials dither for ten days over what to do. They ignored local advice to dispatch excavators and dump-trucks to the beach during one of the flattest calmest periods of winter weather in memory.  They finally realized we were right and said go for it just in time for a storm to blow those pancakes into smithereens the size of a dime.

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While we argue about all of this, some other country is eating our lunch while we sit back and fade away into history.

If we do this we'll cook our climate even more so...let that be on someone else's head I guess.  I want to be on the right side of history.   

According to Kenney Alberta will be a country if it doesn't get its way as a province.  I can't think of anything that will make Alberta fade away faster but, I'm all for separating from Ottawa too so go for it.  There's no guarantee BC will join Alberta. 

Edited May 2, 2019 by eyeball

[Argus]

I'll just stick this in here.

Lack of pipelines has cost Canada $20 billion

[WestCanMan]

"Fish and Global Warming" blah blah blah. Spoken like true foreign lobbyist.

American tankers go down our west coast from Alaska, Saudi tankers come in from the east, but Alberta can't ship oil out in tankers because our waterways are too precious. Go fish. (see how I did that? Pretty slick hey? "Slick" DID IT AGAIN! BOOM! I'm on a roll)

Global warming is utter bullshit. We're coming into solar minimum, it might actually be colder than normal. You'll wish we all flew around in private jets like the dickheads who pimp "global warming" to us, for example Leo DickAprio.

[WestCanMan]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

I'll just stick this in here.

Lack of pipelines has cost Canada $20 billion

Trudeau cost us way more than that. Maybe we just get rid of La Turd and don't bother with the pipelines.

[eyeball]

So....the only response is fuck the fish, fuck the climate and pity the poor oil companies that lost something they never really had.

From the article Argus posted;

Quote

What do you think about large scale economic loss?

 Notwithstanding the assumption we've lost something we had in hand (we didn't) and definitely notwithstanding what the WestCanMen say, what people think about large scale environmental loss matters.

If Alberta can amend the constitution to resolve its environmental issues then so can BC.  

[eyeball]

15 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Global warming is utter bullshit.

You have no business whatsoever being anywhere near this discussion.

That said I'd sure like to see Kenney and Scheer make that their pitch.  I'm quite certain its what they believe too.

Edited May 3, 2019 by eyeball

[WestCanMan]

11 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You have no business whatsoever being anywhere near this discussion.

That said I'd sure like to see Kenney and Scheer make that their pitch.  I'm quite certain its what they believe too.

Right back atcha eyeball. I bet that everything you know about meteorology would fit in a nutshell and rattle.

[eyeball]

58 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Right back atcha eyeball. I bet that everything you know about meteorology would fit in a nutshell and rattle.

 At least I know the weather is not the same as the climate.

Edited May 3, 2019 by eyeball

[WestCanMan]

54 minutes ago, eyeball said:

 At least I know the weather is not the same as the climate.

At least I know that atmospheric conditions is at the core of both phenomena. Your bs about man-made CO2 changing the game is over. Only muppets follow that now.

[eyeball]

12 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Your bs about man-made CO2 changing the game is over. Only muppets follow that now.

You figure this will form the basis of Kenney's constitutional challenge?  Wouldn't you like to see that as much as me?

[eyeball]

15 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

At least I know that atmospheric conditions is at the core of both phenomena.

Please elaborate.

[Queenmandy85]

Firstly, we cannot generate electricity without steel, coal to make the steel, and petroleum to lubricate the generators. Why are we in such a rush to exhaust our oil resources. When it is gone, it is gone forever. Rather than exporting petroleum, we should be exporting nuclear power. For a group that is so hungry for money, why are Kenny, Moe and Ford so scared of making money in the long term? Nuclear power for both domestic and foreign use will give Canada, especially western Canada, prosperity for centuries. Start transitioning to uranium now to restore prosperity to western Canadian workers and get to work on thorium fueled LIFTR reactors to replace them in a few years and export them around the world. 

As for Bills 48 and 69, these three are just providing theatre. If the bills pass, the CPC government will repeal them in November, long before they have any impact. I do not believe Kenny, Moe and Ford are stupid enough to think Trudeau will win in October. On the other hand, it won't have any impact on the Trans Mountain pipeline. As long as Horgan and Weaver oppose it, it will not get built. If the BC Government changes, the large minority in opposition to the pipeline will continue to block it in the courts and on site for years. For the record, I support the Trans Mountain pipeline but I don't expect to see it in my lifetime.

 

[Queenmandy85]

On 5/2/2019 at 2:26 PM, Ell said:

Good point on the BC fisheries.  We can't be scared of "what ifs".  Moving forward requires effort and faith.  We already have a pipeline in place but are just increasing its capacity.  Precautions are obviously in place and are the highest priority.  If a spill were to occur then we need to have strategies in place to mitigate it.  While we argue about all of this, some other country is eating our lunch while we sit back and fade away into history.  

Remember what happened in the Slocan River a few years ago. It will take a century to recover and that was just a truck load of aviation fuel. A job lasts maybe 25 years but the environment has to last for a couple of hundred thousand years until the next ice age.

When the next government repeals Bill C-69, it will have to replace it with something. We have already lost so much of our wilderness, we cannot afford to lose any more. The workers in the oil fields should be moving into new careers rather than sit around for the next ten years on EI and welfare in the hopes a pipeline may get built. If Alberta is slow, move to where the jobs are and go to work in IT or the financial sector. Use that education the taxpayers invested so much money in for you. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by Queenmandy85
forgot reason for quote. What can I say, I'm old.

[WestCanMan]

59 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Please elaborate.

Already did. There’s not much to it. 

[Queenmandy85]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

Already did. There’s not much to it. 

Actually, you didn't. How do you reconcile the chemical properties of methane and CO2 which inhibit re-radiation of energy? This phenomenon is predictable and measurable. You can test it in any undergraduate lab. So, we can measure the amount of methane and CO2 in the atmosphere in pre-industrial times through ice cores, and we can measure the amount now. We can measure the rise in global temperature in the intervening years. So, my honourable friend, please explain where the BS exists. 

[WestCanMan]

21 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Actually, you didn't. How do you reconcile the chemical properties of methane and CO2 which inhibit re-radiation of energy? This phenomenon is predictable and measurable. You can test it in any undergraduate lab. So, we can measure the amount of methane and CO2 in the atmosphere in pre-industrial times through ice cores, and we can measure the amount now. We can measure the rise in global temperature in the intervening years. So, my honourable friend, please explain where the BS exists. 

Global warming dolts cite cow farts as a factor. There were ten times as many bison as there currently are cows. 

They cite increased numbers of cat 5 hurricanes over the Atlantic but they were never tracked until recently. However, large hurricanes that make landfall is a stat that has been tracked, and it’s not up.

Our cars aren’t a big factor in co2 levels by comparison with everything else on the planet. Plus, more co2 in the environment just makes for more robust plant growth, which decreases co2. 

Global warming skeptics have made hundreds of predictions since the ‘80’s with a zero percent success rate. Why should I start believing them now? Is the polar ice all gone? Nope. Doing better than normal. Oh snap. 

Why should we be the only ones doing anything about it? We shouldn’t. 

[Queenmandy85]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Why should we be the only ones doing anything about it? We shouldn’t. 

Because there is train loads of cash to be made in the transition to nuclear power. I interpret your user name to mean you are from western Canada. Don't you like money? 

Edited May 3, 2019 by Queenmandy85

[Queenmandy85]

If you don't care about making money, consider future generation trying to survive in pre-industrail conditions because their lazy greedy ancestors (us) used up the oil making the generation of electricity impossible. 

[Guest]

23 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

"Fish and Global Warming" blah blah blah. Spoken like true foreign lobbyist.

American tankers go down our west coast from Alaska, Saudi tankers come in from the east, but Alberta can't ship oil out in tankers because our waterways are too precious. Go fish. (see how I did that? Pretty slick hey? "Slick" DID IT AGAIN! BOOM! I'm on a roll)

Global warming is utter bullshit. We're coming into solar minimum, it might actually be colder than normal. You'll wish we all flew around in private jets like the dickheads who pimp "global warming" to us, for example Leo DickAprio.

Global warming is not utter bullshit, but thinking that stopping pipelines in Canada will help with it certainly is.

[Army Guy]

On 5/2/2019 at 2:09 PM, eyeball said:

Alberta's main argument seems to be that provinces should be in control of the management of their natural resources and that Ottawa should get out of their way.

Interesting that you should mention prosperity, fish, Alberta and the feds in the same breath because like Newfoundland, BC is not in control of the fish that a good part of its prosperity depends on - a resource that tellingly stands to be most at peril in the event of an oil spill.  BC's fisheries have also been just as mismanaged as Newfoundland's and for much the same reason, their expendability to political and economic whims based in Ottawa.

I wonder if Kenney would support placing control of marine resources in the hands of maritime provinces that are most dependent on them given the likelihood that having such control would probably make it a lot easier for them to directly protect those resources without Ottawa getting in the way?   

 

you really think that the BC government can run these depts. any better....How so ?

[Army Guy]

7 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Firstly, we cannot generate electricity without steel, coal to make the steel, and petroleum to lubricate the generators. Why are we in such a rush to exhaust our oil resources. When it is gone, it is gone forever. Rather than exporting petroleum, we should be exporting nuclear power. For a group that is so hungry for money, why are Kenny, Moe and Ford so scared of making money in the long term? Nuclear power for both domestic and foreign use will give Canada, especially western Canada, prosperity for centuries. Start transitioning to uranium now to restore prosperity to western Canadian workers and get to work on thorium fueled LIFTR reactors to replace them in a few years and export them around the world. 

As for Bills 48 and 69, these three are just providing theatre. If the bills pass, the CPC government will repeal them in November, long before they have any impact. I do not believe Kenny, Moe and Ford are stupid enough to think Trudeau will win in October. On the other hand, it won't have any impact on the Trans Mountain pipeline. As long as Horgan and Weaver oppose it, it will not get built. If the BC Government changes, the large minority in opposition to the pipeline will continue to block it in the courts and on site for years. For the record, I support the Trans Mountain pipeline but I don't expect to see it in my lifetime.

 

Maybe the PM should grow a pair, either force it through via the law, or take back all that federal funding for that new LNG plant that BC wants....cut back on all federal funded projects.....until they come to their senses....Can't have the cake and eat it to, we already have one province that does that....

[eyeball]

Just now, Army Guy said:

you really think that the BC government can run these depts. any better....How so ?

The managers responsible for good management are simply that much closer to the people who are most dependant on good management.  I'd hate to think what BC's forests would look like if they were being managed from Ottawa. Maybe the way Alberta's oil looked when Ottawa managed it?