Iraq: not looking good

[southerncomfort]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/02/09/gat...n.ap/index.html

They now have evidence that Iran is meddling and providing weapons.

[Catchme]

Thanks for the disinformation that has already been debunked here and elsewhere on these forums about this. Again it is the lying type of stuff they used to attack Iraq with. Then some naive, or willfully misinformed, people run with it without actually reading or investigating the truth and accuracy of what is being said or presented by Gates Bush et al. It is shame that people run with these lies as mass extermination of peoles could be the result.

However, in case you missed actually reading the threads, and the article and are not up to full speed, I will ellucidate that Gates said nothing and what he said means even less than nothing.

SEVILLE, Spain (AP) -- Serial numbers and markings on explosives used in Iraq provide "pretty good" evidence that Iran is providing either weapons or technology for militants there, Defense Secretary Robert Gates asserted Friday.

The actual pictures of these devices showed English writing on them, if they were from Iran they would be in Arabic. There is a link in another thread here that shows the pictures of these with English on them. Lies by Gates.

But he offers himself an escape clase with this, note the "there maybe":

Offering some of the first public details of evidence the military has collected, Gates said, "I think there's some serial numbers, there may be some markings on some of the projectile fragments that we found," that point to Iran.

Hello, "there may be markings", does not mean a thing, especially when the opictures he presented show english markings. You do not make accusations that could lead to the mass extermination of millions and say "there may be markings".

Then gates said this:

At the same time, however, he said he was somewhat surprised that recent raids by coalition and Iraqi forces in Iraq swept up some Iranians.

Oh for sure, they picked up some Iranians, at the Iranian embassy. The one they are trying to make a case over was in Iranian military uniform. No doubt eh? He was at the Iranian embassy. Funny how they fail to mention just where they got the Iranians from eh?

The Gates little non-expose closes with this:

Gates, who is attending his first NATO defense ministers meeting, said Iran is "very much involved in providing either the technology or the weapons themselves for these explosively formed projectiles. Now they don't represent a big percentage of the IED attacks but they're extremely lethal."

First, we are told they are very much involved in either the weapons or technology. Why do they know this? Because they are a type that the Iranians used against Iraq in the Iran Iraq war. Of course, the Iraqis have access to the technology, it was used against them by Iran. they in turn used the same technology against Iran. Again the USA fails to report this and skews it, without really telling lies heh?! Just innuendo, that some people just pick up and then spew as truth.

Then Gates admits these IED's really haven't killed that many troops with them, so what it probably means is none. But were suposed to believe they're lethal and that Iran had something to do with them.

Good thing most people around the world and indeed even in the USA don't believe the lies. This is the second time the Bush admin has tried out this false rhetoric of Gates to see how it played.

[southerncomfort]

the only disinformation is yours which I rarely read, please quit swamping the board with propaganda like you did in the other forum.

[Catchme]

Sadly, I do not know of what you speak, but again I notice your comentary is off subject and in no way addresses the salient rebuttal of the propaganda that Gates and the USA is falsely espousing. Please do try to remain on subject of the thread.

[Black Dog]

They now have evidence that Iran is meddling and providing weapons.

They also had "evidence" Iraq had WMD too, didn't they?

Anyway, the Iran is supplying IEDs is fishy for several reasons:

-the I in IED stands for "improvised". Which means they are fauirly unsophisticated and easy to make.

-There's no mention of who is using these weapons. Since the bulk of the anti-u.s. insurgencyt is Sunni, that would rule out Iran: why would Iran provide weapons to the Sunnis?

-even if the equipment was made in Iran, that's not evidence of state complicity. The Iran-Iraq border is long and porous. Smuggling weaponry across would be pretty easy to do.

[Catchme]

They now have evidence that Iran is meddling and providing weapons.

They also had "evidence" Iraq had WMD too, didn't they?

Anyway, the Iran is supplying IEDs is fishy for several reasons:

-the I in IED stands for "improvised". Which means they are fauirly unsophisticated and easy to make.

-There's no mention of who is using these weapons. Since the bulk of the anti-u.s. insurgencyt is Sunni, that would rule out Iran: why would Iran provide weapons to the Sunnis?

-even if the equipment was made in Iran, that's not evidence of state complicity. The Iran-Iraq border is long and porous. Smuggling weaponry across would be pretty easy to do.

Great points, and now the Sunnis are talking bargaining and the USA is ignoring them, wonder why that is?

There is also a link in this thread or another ME thread that states emphatically that the vast amounts of insurregents/freedom fighters are Sunnis, who would have nothing to do with Iran shia' Muslims in the first place. They would also have the IED technology as it was they who fought against Iran.

[GostHacked]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/02/09/gat...n.ap/index.html

They now have evidence that Iran is meddling and providing weapons.

Thank you for posting this here. Let me show you the proof. I posted this in the Iran's People thread, but it won't get much.

As it is here - http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....ndpost&p=184919

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...7021100479.html

The officials said they would speak only on the condition of anonymity, so the explosives expert and the analyst, who would normally not speak to the news media, could provide information directly. The analyst's exact title and full name were not revealed to reporters. The officials released a PowerPoint presentation including photographs of the weaponry, but did not allow media representatives to record, photograph or videotape the briefing or the materials on display.

As I pointed out, this evidence is so solid, no one can even see it without having their eyeballs melt at first glance. SLAM DUNK!!!

The mortar rounds are stencil painted with plain ENGLISH on them. Chances are most Iranian Military personal can't read or speak english. So why would their ammuniton be in ENGLISH? Try to tell me how this makes sense. Really TRY.

NIGERIAN YELLOW CAKE'D !!!!

[Catchme]

The mortar rounds are stencil painted with plain ENGLISH on them. Chances are most Iranian Military personal can't read or speak english. So why would their ammuniton be in ENGLISH? Try to tell me how this makes sense. Really TRY.

The only way it makes sense if the bombs are actually NOT Iranian technology.

Trouble is are Americans going to get sucked in yet again?

[madmax]

They now have evidence that Iran is meddling and providing weapons.

Wow, Is that ever quick intelligence. Who would have thought?

Here is some other really current news.

M. Sadr is in Iran.

I know I am about four days late in reporting a 3 week old event reported about 2 days ago.

Remember when Iran backed the Kurds? Remember when the US backed the Kurds?

Remember when Iran gave comfort to the Shiites. Remember when the US told the Shiites to rise up?

Meddling in Iraq is common.

Iran has always been a player, like the US.

Hardly worthy of a current news headline.

[madmax]

the only disinformation is yours which I rarely read, please quit swamping the board with propaganda like you did in the other forum.

The very fact that Shiite Militias such as the Badr Brigade operated from Iran during the Saddam years, should surprise no one that Iranian weapons find their way into Iraqi hands.

Now, should some of those Iraqi Warplanes reappear from the 1st Gulf War, courtesy of Iran. Now that would be one interesting story.

[madmax]

The mortar rounds are stencil painted with plain ENGLISH on them. Chances are most Iranian Military personal can't read or speak english. So why would their ammuniton be in ENGLISH? Try to tell me how this makes sense. Really TRY.

One common trend in subversive activities is to use the country, or allies of the country, of whom you are having a conflict with, weapons. The US and Israel did a great job of sourcing USSR weapons to send to the Muj in Afghanistan.

So, for Iranians to try to source US, Brit, shells would not be unheard of. That said, Iran did lots of trade with the US for Weapons prior to the revolution and during the Iran Contra Affair. As you can see weapons trade involves lots of unscrupulous activity.

This Iranian report isn't yellow cake. It is just overblown hype, that has gotten out of hand. The military has seen an increase in these kinds of weapon attacks.

They are going to see lots more.

[madmax]

Hey what is going on here ???

The Story highlights.

• NEW: Policy office was "inappropriate" in advancing unsupported intelligence

4 Years too late... shameful.

This should stop the lies that brought the US to into a fighting frenzy.

Right?

[Black Dog]

How the U.S. is making a balls of the Iraq occupation.

On a hot summer morning in 2004, Garett Reppenhagen dragged himself out of his cot at a rudimentary Army base, 40 miles north of Baghdad, for a briefing on the day's combat mission. His battalion of the 1st Infantry Division was holed up in an abandoned warehouse and sleeping in steel trailers with sandbags stacked in the windows. They were stationed on the outskirts of Baquba, a city rife with insurgents in the violent Sunni Triangle. As the soldiers gathered around their Humvees, Reppenhagen, a scout and sniper, figured he knew what his lieutenant was going to say.

...

What the lieutenant told them, however, had nothing to do with the enemy. They were going to hand out soccer balls to Iraqi kids in the surrounding villages. Reppenhagen was surprised. "You do so much crappy shit over there that when you get a mission to actually help people, it's encouraging," he said.

...

At least handing out soccer balls, he thought, was one thing the Army could do right.

I think we can see where this is going.

[GostHacked]

The mortar rounds are stencil painted with plain ENGLISH on them. Chances are most Iranian Military personal can't read or speak english. So why would their ammuniton be in ENGLISH? Try to tell me how this makes sense. Really TRY.

One common trend in subversive activities is to use the country, or allies of the country, of whom you are having a conflict with, weapons. The US and Israel did a great job of sourcing USSR weapons to send to the Muj in Afghanistan.

So, for Iranians to try to source US, Brit, shells would not be unheard of. That said, Iran did lots of trade with the US for Weapons prior to the revolution and during the Iran Contra Affair. As you can see weapons trade involves lots of unscrupulous activity.

This Iranian report isn't yellow cake. It is just overblown hype, that has gotten out of hand. The military has seen an increase in these kinds of weapon attacks.

They are going to see lots more.

But when some of those reports, even the CBS report said the weapons were of Iranian origin. The design of the weapons were Iranian (something about the tailfins on rockets being welded on instead of casting). Now that sounds strange to me. So Iranians would make bombs with a certain manufacturing process that would trace it back to Iran and use plain of English writting on the bombs. OK so then if the bombs came from the US back in the 80s, would they not say that the bombs are of US origin, but the intel shows that they were made in the US, this still has many questions about it.

It just does not make sense to me. Someone is lying, and going by the USs rhetoric before Iraq (and we know what happened next) I will take everything the US says with a bucket of salt. Gotta cover up that bad taste in my mouth somehow. Or did I just throw up a little in my mouth.

Madmax

This should stop the lies that brought the US to into a fighting frenzy.

Right?

Nope, it won't stop it one damn bit. And with so much ADD going on in this world, they won't even remember they were lied to 5 years ago about Iraq. Maybe it will take another 9/11 for the people to really get galvanized behind the war on terror.

[obsidian]

if youre an american citizen you have not yet felt the toll of the 1 trillion + spent on this war. you will not be forced to enlist in the army. and there's a pretty damn good kill-death ratio

if you're iraqi your country is in shambles. 3 sepperate sects are waging war for control of the nation. the one leader who was able to contain this violence had been assasinated, and even worse by the other sect, causing even more hatred and violence. your vast oil fields have been sold without your consent, the only value, the source of your GDP, everything is gone. the infrastructure is barely functioning, and very little has been spent on rebuilding. many see all the negative things going on, and decide to act agaisnt what is causing this, the americans. these "terrorist" are doing nothing more than protecting their interests. the reason they use terrorism is because they have no other means. picture the USA saying to the UK "we believe you are a threat, and we're going to take all your capital, and all your assets, in essence your soul". if such a statement was ever procured, and acted upon surely the UK would protect themselves from the american agressors. and this is what the "terrorists" do, they try to beat an enemy thats pretty much invulnerable, and has the backing of the oil giants.

if you're among the select few who actually decide policy, you're ecstatic. you have succesfully privatized the nationalized iraqi oil. and even better yet, solely with american and british corporations. the profit being made is huge. they get it for nothing because they killed for it. their kids will never have to fight in these wars. and most assuredly these people do not need any more money, but its what they hunger for.

you see it's unfortunate. none but the latter actually have a vote that counts in all of this. this is based upon the corporate/super rich agenda, and believe me, they're DEFINETLY benifiting from our suffering.

[jdobbin]

It looks like the surge is not working.

Today was the worst bombing incident in four years and the count for Iraqi deaths is 500 for the week.

One of the things the military was saying is that the casualty rate for soldier was down. It isn't. It's the same as last month and about the same as the month before.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17883992/

BAGHDAD, Iraq - The Iraqi government raised the death toll on Saturday from a truck bomb in the town of Tal Afar to 152, making it the deadliest single bombing of the four-year-old war.

Meanwhile, a series of bombings and attacks killed at least 17 people around the country, including nine construction workers who died when gunmen opened fire on their bus. The violence capped a week in which more than 500 people have died in sectarian violence.

http://icasualties.org/oif/

[bush_cheney2004]

you see it's unfortunate. none but the latter actually have a vote that counts in all of this. this is based upon the corporate/super rich agenda, and believe me, they're DEFINETLY benifiting from our suffering.

How are you suffering...in Canada...which imports over 1,000,000 bpd of crude oil and distillates? Why do I read so much whining about gas that costs so much per liter?

[DogOnPorch]

Wasn't this troop increase for Baghdad? This truck bomb happened elsewhere where there are few if any evil Americans/British.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the end of the summer of 1973, I thought it was virtually impossible for South Vietnam to survive. How in the hell could they?

--- Gen. William Westmoreland

[jdobbin]

Wasn't this troop increase for Baghdad? This truck bomb happened elsewhere where there are few if any evil Americans/British.

Are you saying nothing has been happening in Baghdad and that the surge has been successful there?

[Canadian Blue]

People the troop increase is working, it just isn't working for the people outside the Baghdad city limits.

[DogOnPorch]

Are you saying nothing has been happening in Baghdad and that the surge has been successful there?

I could have sworn I said: Wasn't this troop increase for Baghdad? This truck bomb happened elsewhere where there are few if any evil Americans/British.

Yup...that's what I said.

---------------------------------------

Yes, blowing a place to bits leaves a mess behind. But it's a mess without a military to fight aggressive wars. A mess without the facilities to develop dangerous weapons. A mess that can't systematically kill, torture, and oppress millions of its own citizens. It's a mess with a message--don't mess with us!

---From: What George W Bush should have said.

[Canadian Blue]

Thanks for the quote of what George W Bush should have said, considering how well Iraq has been going since 2003.

I could have sworn I said: Wasn't this troop increase for Baghdad? This truck bomb happened elsewhere where there are few if any evil Americans/British.

Yup...that's what I said.

Let's see what the news is reporting...

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/03...n.ap/index.html

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- A parked car exploded near a hospital in Baghdad's main Shiite district on Saturday -- the deadliest in a series of bombings that killed at least nine people and wounded dozens in Iraq, police said.

The 10:30 a.m. blast in Sadr City was targeting street vendors and pedestrians just outside the entrance to the al-Sadr General Hospital. Police said at least five people were killed and 15 wounded.

So is the surge working, or is it not working.

Hold on, another story.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/03...main/index.html

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Bombers launched two deadly strikes Thursday in crowded Shiite marketplaces in Baghdad and a town north of Iraq's capital, killing 119 people and wounding 171. At least 17 others died in other bombings and gunfire around the country.

The attacks erupted as Iraqi shoppers filled marketplaces Thursday to buy goods at the start of the weekend and the eve of the Muslim holy day of Friday.

In the deadliest attack, at least one suicide bomber wearing an explosive vest detonated in a crowded open-air marketplace in Baghdad's Shiite district of Shaab. At least 76 people were killed and 85 were wounded.

[DogOnPorch]

My point being...perhaps a truck bomb in a a place where there are fewer evil Americans/British will have a higher percentage chance of working. We'll need a few more examples before if we can see if that theory holds water.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Two things are infinite: the Universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the Universe.

---Albert Einstein

[jdobbin]

I keep hearing how things are getting better in Iraq but still see little evidence of it.

Lats week saw the most civilians killed in four years. Today, more Brits and Americans soldiers killed.

http://icasualties.org/oif/prdDetails.aspx?hndRef=4-2007

Now, more National Guard are headed to Iraq to ease the already huge burden on the regular military.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17971410/

Bush seems determined to make sure that the war continues into the next administration.

[bush_cheney2004]

Bush seems determined to make sure that the war continues into the next administration.

No, he is just determined to show Pelosi and Reid how the Constitution works during this administration.