August1991 Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 (edited) Like Justin Trudeau, Donald Trump is a showman. He knows how to manipulate the media, move public opinion. Unlike Justin Trudeau, Trump's the guy. Like Winston Churchill or Margaret Thatcher or Ronald Reagan or Pierre Trudeau - Trump clearly decides the agenda. He's a leader. America chose both Obama and Trump. Whadda country! Whenever anyone says anything bad about America, remind them that America chose both Obama and Trump. Edited October 30, 2018 by August1991 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 Hillary Clinton ran away from the media....Donald Trump has rough sex with the media...and the media still likes it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 (edited) 29 minutes ago, August1991 said: Like Justin Trudeau or Adolf Hitler, Donald Trump is a showman. He knows how to manipulate the media, move public opinion. Unlike Justin Trudeau, Trump's the guy. Like Winston Churchill or Margaret Thatcher or Ronald Reagan or Pierre Trudeau - Trump clearly decides the agenda. He's a leader. America chose both Obama and Trump. Whadda country! Whenever anyone says anything bad about America, remind them that America chose both Obama and Trump. Trump is not like Winston Churchill or Margaret Thatcher or Ronald Reagan or Pierre Trudeau. None of them were mindless, moronic poltroons. Edited October 30, 2018 by bcsapper Replaced a British term for mindless, moronic poltroons because it might offend those who see it meaning something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted October 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, bcsapper said: Trump is not like Winston Churchill or Margaret Thatcher or Ronald Reagan or Pierre Trudeau. None of them were mindless twats. WTF? Trump is better than Trudeau Jnr? Whatever... I have three paragraphs: 1. Donald Trump and Justin Trudeau are showmen. 2. Donald Trump leads. Unlike his father, Justin doesn't. 3. America is a good place - it allows dispute. . Edited October 30, 2018 by August1991 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 1 minute ago, August1991 said: WTF? Trump is better than Trudeau Jnr? Beats me, I don't like either of them. I do know who he is definitely not worth a bucket of spit from. See my previous post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, August1991 said: WTF? Trump is better than Trudeau Jnr? Yes...Trump is better at it than Justin Trudeau. Trump even gets more media attention...in Canada ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Yes...Trump is better at it than Justin Trudeau. Trump even gets more media attention...in Canada ! Justin Trudeau is more liked and respected internationally than Trump. That’s a fact. And I’m not a Trudeau fan. However, Trump wields more power and runs a more dramatic circus, where people and animals might actually die. Trump has taken risks, no doubt. Some worked in his favour. Some have made the world more dangerous and worse. Brazil has just elected a fascist who has praised political murders by dictators. This is our world today. Trump is part of this dark force and he has given his blessings to other dictators. This happened in part because the left lost clarity of purpose, stoked identity politics and became too precious and fragile. To fight Trump we need a firebrand who is as media savvy as Trump. What pisses me off is the way that Trump has highjacked conservatism. There is virtue in true conservatism, but that’s hard to see under Trump. B_C, you seem to subscribe to the belief that media attention is a virtue. Trump has gotten media attention, but often for being rude or foolish. He’s not a good example to emulate, but people are emulating him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Justin Trudeau is more liked and respected internationally than Trump. That’s a fact. And I’m not a Trudeau fan. However, Trump wields more power and runs a more dramatic circus, where people and animals might actually die. Trump has taken risks, no doubt. Some worked in his favour. Some have made the world more dangerous and worse. Brazil has just elected a fascist who has praised political murders by dictators. This is our world today. Justin Trudeau has lost respect internationally (e.g. Asia), and domestically because of his missteps and anemic virtue signaling. Trump has no need for the soft power that Trudeau thinks he wields, because Trump has real power...real ability to shake things up. Trump has garnered media attention in Canada for at least two years, sucking the oxygen out of the room and capturing far more media bandwidth than Trudeau...in Trudeau's own nation. Trump matters more than Trudeau....so much so...Trudeau's own foreign minister begged Trump to continue protecting the post WW2 order, because Trudeau can't. Quote Trump is part of this dark force and he has given his blessings to other dictators. This happened in part because the left lost clarity of purpose, stoked identity politics and became too precious and fragile. To fight Trump we need a firebrand who is as media savvy as Trump. What pisses me off is the way that Trump has highjacked conservatism. There is virtue in true conservatism, but that’s hard to see under Trump. Trump is just another American president, using the power of his office to implement domestic and foreign policies. The real issue in Canada is that any foreign (American) president has such real and perceived influence over what happens in Canada. Part of that impotence and dependency falls on Canadian choices, or lack thereof....no matter who is elected U.S. president. Quote B_C, you seem to subscribe to the belief that media attention is a virtue. Trump has gotten media attention, but often for being rude or foolish. He’s not a good example to emulate, but people are emulating him. Then you don't understand the media game....Trump's game....and strategy that won him the White House. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted October 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Justin Trudeau is more liked and respected internationally than Trump. That’s a fact. .... It's not a fact that either are respected, liked. But both Trump and Trudeau Jnr know how to attract attention. Difference? Trudeau Snr and Trump (like Reagan, Thatcher) managed to change the direction of debate, the direction of the world's debate. Edited October 30, 2018 by August1991 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, August1991 said: Difference? Trudeau Snr and Trump managed to change the direction of debate, the world. Agreed.....Justin Trudeau is utterly devoid of "gravitas"....he simply does not matter on the international stage the way that Pierre Trudeau did. Trump can make more happen by just farting on Twitter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 (edited) It would be absurd to expect Canada, a small country, to single-handedly protect the WW2 order. I'm not sure even the U.S. could do that single-handedly. However, political positions and soft power do matter. I watched Trump lean on Trudeau for political cover, especially early on. Trump seemed to feel a great sense of victory, perhaps above anything else in his presidency, at the concessions won in USMCA. I was surprised at how significant a role Canada played in all of this, actually, because the progressive work, such as raising the minimum wage for Mexican auto workers, came from Canada. It's interesting to see this fissure along political lines, where the U.S. left and Canada seem to identify more closely than the U.S. left and the U.S. right. I've never seen the U.S. so divided. Perhaps over Vietnam when I was a kid. I also don't understand why Canada became so associated with Trudeau Jr. and the U.S. left. That also feels like a high-jacking, though we've usually been left of the U.S. as a whole, with some policy exceptions. Edited October 30, 2018 by Zeitgeist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 25 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: It would be absurd to expect Canada, a small country, to single-handedly protect the WW2 order. I'm not sure even the U.S. could do that single-handedly. However, political positions and soft power do matter. ...only when backed up by hard power. Pierre Trudeau knew what he was giving up when he starved Canadian military power and traded it for "honest broker" and "soft power"...it meant a diminished role for Canada. "Seat at the table" became common jargon in Canada. Even peacekeeping has fallen on hard times as of late. The pecking order worked well for the "West" as long as America played ball and paid the majority of the bills in blood and treasure. Trump is a major disturbance in that longstanding scheme, and Justin Trudeau can only react...feebly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 9 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: ...only when backed up by hard power. Pierre Trudeau knew what he was giving up when he starved Canadian military power and traded it for "honest broker" and "soft power"...it meant a diminished role for Canada. "Seat at the table" became common jargon in Canada. Even peacekeeping has fallen on hard times as of late. The pecking order worked well for the "West" as long as America played ball and paid the majority of the bills in blood and treasure. Trump is a major disturbance in that longstanding scheme, and Justin Trudeau can only react...feebly. I agree with everything you said here. Trudeau senior weakened Canada's military. It needs to be seriously supplemented, including nukes. I think most Canadians would agree with this position. Canada needs more hard power and it's only fair in the context of NATO and continental security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 (edited) Trump in one paragraph. Trump is a failed businessman who somehow figured out how to lose money even while owning casinos. He is a lifelong narcissist who has never known how to act around other people. He has no class, no tact, no dignity, which is why he's been rejected by his peers all his life. He is lazy, stupid and incurious, having no interest in learning. He seeks only adulation, admiration and praise, and is bitter, heartless and vindictive towards anyone who disagrees or attempts to thwart him. He is a greedy, shallow, craven man of no intellectual substance, and in all likelihood he is a sociopath with dementia. Edited October 30, 2018 by Argus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 Only Travolta owns a cooler jet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimwd Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 On 10/29/2018 at 6:53 PM, August1991 said: Like Justin Trudeau, Donald Trump is a showman. He knows how to manipulate the media, move public opinion. Unlike Justin Trudeau, Trump's the guy. Like Winston Churchill or Margaret Thatcher or Ronald Reagan or Pierre Trudeau - Trump clearly decides the agenda. He's a leader. America chose both Obama and Trump. Whadda country! Whenever anyone says anything bad about America, remind them that America chose both Obama and Trump. Trump conducting rallies where mobs chant hate speech in lockstep. Trump praises assault and body slamming a reporter. In 2017, anti-Semitic incidents (including physical assaults, vandalism, and attacks on Jewish institutions) surged nearly 60% over the previous year, according to an ADL audit, the largest single-year increase on record, and the second-highest number reported since the ADL started tracking anti-Semitic incidents in 1979. Nationalism is back 1933 Germany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 1, 2018 Report Share Posted November 1, 2018 (edited) It's possible to be a master of the media, a code-breaking politician who rewrites the rules, and a leader who makes bold decisions and takes his nation down a new path despite what the experts tell him. All of that sounds great, but it's also possible to be all of those things and lead one's nation to utter ruin, or at least decline. It's possible, in fact, it's likely. Edited November 1, 2018 by Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 1, 2018 Report Share Posted November 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: All of that sounds great, but it's also possible to be all of those things and lead one's nation to utter ruin, or at least decline. It's possible, in fact, it's likely. Sure does...you should see what happened with President Abraham Lincoln ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted November 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2018 (edited) On 10/30/2018 at 3:29 PM, Argus said: Trump in one paragraph. Trump is a failed businessman who somehow figured out how to lose money even while owning casinos. He is a lifelong narcissist who has never known how to act around other people. He has no class, no tact, no dignity, which is why he's been rejected by his peers all his life. He is lazy, stupid and incurious, having no interest in learning. He seeks only adulation, admiration and praise, and is bitter, heartless and vindictive towards anyone who disagrees or attempts to thwart him. He is a greedy, shallow, craven man of no intellectual substance, and in all likelihood he is a sociopath with dementia. And Bill Clinton? Or Bush Jnr? Argus, what of Trudeau Jnr? ======== My point in the OP was different: Trudeau Snr clearly dominated. And Trump clearly is a leader. Like Thatcher. But America, whadda country! Edited November 1, 2018 by August1991 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted November 1, 2018 Report Share Posted November 1, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, August1991 said: And Bill Clinton? Or Bush Jnr? Both were smarter than Trump. Both had more dignity and wit and knowledge and better judgement. Quote Argus, what of Trudeau Jnr? Trudeau is smarter than Trump too, more stable, at least capable of conceding to experts. Quote My point in the OP was different: Trudeau Snr clearly dominated. And Trump clearly is a leader. Like Thatcher. Trump is most definitely NOT a leader. A leader is able to persuade people to his way of thinking.. Trump simply finds what people are angry about and then pretends to be angry about the same thing. A leader has vision. Trump has no vision unless it's on FOX news. A leader takes responsibility for his actions. Truman had a plaque on his desk that said "The buck stops here". Trump has a plaque that says "It's all your fault" that he throws at anyone convenient whenever anything goes wrong. A leader, with control of the senate and house, would have had his wall under construction now. Trump hasn't even been able to get his own party to agree to fund the thing. Edited November 1, 2018 by Argus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted November 1, 2018 Report Share Posted November 1, 2018 On 10/29/2018 at 7:17 PM, bcsapper said: Trump is not like Winston Churchill or Margaret Thatcher or Ronald Reagan or Pierre Trudeau. None of them were mindless, moronic poltroons. Trudeau senior was more arrogant than Trump, and that's hard to do. He was a leader for sure, but he was just taking the country in the wrong direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 1, 2018 Report Share Posted November 1, 2018 Trump is most certainly a leader...one that many may dislike...but a leader nonetheless. Trump matters much more than Justin Trudeau, who can only react to Trump's actions/policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 1, 2018 Report Share Posted November 1, 2018 54 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: Trudeau senior was more arrogant than Trump, and that's hard to do. He was a leader for sure, but he was just taking the country in the wrong direction. Mussolini was only marginally more arrogant than Trump. I was no fan of PET, but apples and oranges, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTM Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 11 hours ago, Argus said: Both were smarter than Trump. Both had more dignity and wit and knowledge and better judgement. Both were smart enough to work an umbrella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted November 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 On 11/1/2018 at 5:47 PM, bcsapper said: Mussolini was only marginally more arrogant than Trump. I was no fan of PET, but apples and oranges, really. Mussolini, Trudeau Snr, Trudeau Jnr, Trump = agreed, somehow similar. But where is the difference? Similar: Some women found them attractive (with hindsight, many women find them now offensive.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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