Asylum System "not sustainable" - Immigration Minister

[DogOnPorch]

A moderate Muslim let's the other guy behead you.

[Goddess]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

You can question their attitudes, and keep them out if they are extreme.  Most Canadians are fine with that as am I.

We can question their attitudes?  Have you noticed what happens to people who question their attitudes?

How do we keep out the extreme ones when we can't even agree on what constitutes extremism in Islam?  To Dia, the only extremists in Islam are the ones who kill and to her, they are just "mentally ill".  Her standards are so low (but only for Muslims) that going by her standards, nearly any one can come in and be welcomed, no matter what their beliefs are as long as they don't kill when they're here.  Who cares what they believe or have done in the old country?  Somehow, Canada's magic borders takes care of all that.

I don't get the impression that you would be "fine" with any kind of questioning of Muslim attitudes.  Like Dia, you seem to not feel they have any attitudes worth worrying about (in spite of the attitudes shown by the Muslim countries we are importing from), you bristle every time Muslim attitudes are questioned and you've said many times that their society is just as good as our's.

[Goddess]

27 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

A moderate Muslim let's the other guy behead you.

That's not my definition, but it is clearly the definition some here have.

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

Which I never said.  Re-writing what I wrote so you can argue, again, I see.  Perhaps its you with the reading comprehension problem.

Funny how I quoted your exact words and you still deny you said it.  Here are those words again:

he should ask his wife which group she would rather live under - Western society or Islamic society where she can never leave the house without wearing a blanket over her entire body and head. 

What part of "never leave the house" suggests your statement applies to only some women in Islamic society?

There is no place in the world where women are legally mandated to wear the burka (aka blanket over body and head) - not even Saudi Arabia.  I couldn't even find a country that mandated face coverings.

Yes, social and family pressure in SA and some other places mean women are completely covered and the authorities aren't much interested in protecting women who fail to cover.  Yes, thats a problem in those places.

However, most "Islamic" societies do not force women to cover themselves in a "blanket" from head to toe socially either.  Your claim is wrong on so many levels its stunning.

You talk about my sister as if her experiences living in an Islamic society is irrelevant and as if I am claiming her experience is universal.  In fact, I use her experience to contradict the broadbrushing of Muslims that happens all too often.  Her experience is not universal, but its more typical than you will allow in your eagerness to declaim any shred of humanity within Islam or the majority of Muslims.

[Goddess]

What a nit-picky bunch of crap.  How dare Goddess suggest that women in Islamic countries can't leave the house without covering!!  Blasphemy!!

Yet you contradict yourself right here:

3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

There is no place in the world where women are legally mandated to wear the burka

 

4 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Yes, social and family pressure in SA and some other places mean women are completely covered

Who gives a shit whether it's mandated by the government or by their society???  The result is the same - subjugation of women. Which they bring and insist on in their new countries. 

Sooooo sorry I didn't go into every possible detail and scenario.  

5 minutes ago, dialamah said:

You talk about my sister as if her experiences living in an Islamic society is irrelevant and as if I am claiming her experience is universal. 

And  you talk about everyone else's experiences with Muslims as being irrelevant and that we're claiming our experience is universal.  Duhhhhhhh........

[Centerpiece]

Over the past 21 months 900 illegal border crossers have arrived in Canada after facing deportation orders in the US. Of those only SIX have been removed. Incredible.

Link: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/blair-apology-asylum-seekers-1.4836471

Edited September 25, 2018 by Centerpiece

[dialamah]

48 minutes ago, Goddess said:

To Dia, the only extremists in Islam are the ones who kill and to her, they are just "mentally ill".  Her standards are so low (but only for Muslims) that going by her standards, nearly any one can come in and be welcomed, no matter what their beliefs are as long as they don't kill when they're here.  Who cares what they believe or have done in the old country?  Somehow, Canada's magic borders takes care of all that.

I have said, many times over, and here I am saying it again because you are such a slow learner:

1.  Generally, Muslims who come to Canada are more conservative in their social attitudes than secular Canadians and even most Christians.

2.  The longer Muslims are here, the more they accept our more progessive values, as have all immigrants to Canada, until they are virtually indistinguishable from Canadians.  Of course this is not absolute, but decades of studies demonstrate that its pretty reliable. And recent surveys of Muslims in Canada indicate it is happening among themnas well.

3.  I did once say that I thought everyone who committed an act of violence must be mentally ill in some way.  After some discussion with some reasonable people, I backed off on that a bit. 

4.  I believe our system does a good job of screening out criminals from other countries.  I know its not perfect, and I understand illegal border crossings make it more difficult.  I think its unreasonable for the Muslim Alarmists to act as if Canada is coming to an end because a few Muslim people committed crimes in Canada, out of the millions who are here.

5.  I fully expect the law to take care of Muslim criminals, just as they do non-Muslim criminals.  I do not think they are special or require any reduction of consequences even if things are done differently in their home country.

6.  I have never said that I don't care who comes here or what they did in their own country.  I have said I trust our immigration system and so far, it seems to be doing a reasonable job.  We may differ on that, but that doesn't mean I don't care who comes into Canada.

7.  I also don't care what non-Muslims believe, as long as they aren't engaging in violent and/or illegal behavior, or even encouraging hate against another group.  My attitude toward Muslims isn't any different than toward anyone else in that regard.

[taxme]

On 9/25/2018 at 9:31 AM, Centerpiece said:

Over the past 21 months 900 illegal border crossers have arrived in Canada after facing deportation orders in the US. Of those only SIX have been removed. Inctredible.

Link: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/blair-apology-asylum-seekers-1.4836471

Maybe it is about time that Canada got out of it's United Nations obligation to refugees as we see it is being used and abused by the rest of the world. No doubt thousands of those criminal illegals that have crossed into Canada already illegally since 2017 are what they call economic migrants and really have no fear if persecution if they are sent back from whence they came. It should not take months for immigration officials to figure out who they are.

I believe that Canada has signed itself onto too many obligations that Canadians never had a chance to speak on or even heard of. It's high time for Canadians to start to give a shit for a change about what our elected so called politicians are doing to us every day. I wonder as to how many other UN programs have our politicians foisted on Canadians and signed onto that we the people are not aware of or really need to be involved in? 

Edited September 26, 2018 by taxme

[Argus]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Because it breaks this approach of self-satisfying ourselves with our liberal 'progress' and using it to justify treating people from 'inferior' countries as deserving quarantine.

I see nothing wrong with judging any groups by its demonstrated group behaviour, be it an improvement on ours or behind us.

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. Maybe... but the desire to find the gap between acceptable and non-acceptable morals seems to be driven by finding a reason why US/European folks are better than others in the first place.

In your opinion

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. You can question their attitudes, and keep them out if they are extreme.  Most Canadians are fine with that as am I.

Yes, according to polls. Our media and political elites, however, are 100% opposed.

[DogOnPorch]

2 hours ago, Goddess said:

That's not my definition, but it is clearly the definition some here have.

 

Under Sharia, your definition would not amount to much. 

[dialamah]

2 hours ago, Goddess said:

What a nit-picky bunch of crap.  How dare Goddess suggest that women in Islamic countries can't leave the house without covering!!  Blasphemy!!

You sound a little hysterical.  And, you were the one who flat-out stated that women in Islamic societies could "never leave the house" without covering. 

Don't use absolutes if you don't want people to think you mean "everybody".  

2 hours ago, Goddess said:

Who gives a shit whether it's mandated by the government or by their society???  The result is the same - subjugation of women. Which they bring and insist on in their new countries. 

Good enough point.  But as I wasn't sure in your original post if you meant it was a "legal" requirement or a social one so I covered both.  I even agreed with you that in some places there is very strong social pressure to cover and that virtually every woman did. 

But its still not true that women can never leave the house uncovered in Islamic society, which is what you claimed.

You should own your mistake instead of insisting that I am wrong.  

2 hours ago, Goddess said:

And  you talk about everyone else's experiences with Muslims as being irrelevant and that we're claiming our experience is universal.  Duhhhhhhh........

Not exactly.  I have doubts about some of the sources used regarding Muslims in Europe.  I don't believe I've discounted anyone's personal experiences, or called them/their families liars when they've related them, as has happened to me.  If I have dismissed someone's personal ecperience here, that was wrong of me and I apologize. 

I have stated multiple times that I know my family doesn't comprise the entirety if either Egyptian society or Islamic belief; nonetheless I am constantly accused of claiming my family defines both.  I merely present them as alternates to the claims presented here - such as women in Islamic societies can never leave the house uncovered.  Or that Muslim men believe in beating their wives as an article of faith.  Or that Muslims hate Christians.  Etc.

[Goddess]

2 minutes ago, dialamah said:

You should own your mistake instead of insisting that I am wrong.

We've been over this over and over and over again.  I've stated many times that I don't think ALL Muslims do this or that or the other thing.  I don't believe the majority of people believe that ALL Muslims do this or that or the other thing - it's only YOU that shits all over anyone who suggests misogyny or Jew-hating or wife beating is a problem in Muslim societies.  And I get it - you don't think they are problems.

Hysterical?  The only who gets hysterical here is you, constantly having to re-word everyone's statements until they border on the ridiculous and nit-picking over words because they didn't say something EXACTLY the way YOU think they should of.  

I think that high horse you're always on is making you dizzy;.

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, Goddess said:

We've been over this over and over and over again.  I've stated many times that I don't think ALL Muslims do this or that or the other thing. 

 

Oskar Schindler was a nice Nazi.

[Goddess]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

I don't believe I've discounted anyone's personal experiences, or called them/their families liars when they've related them, as has happened to me.

Untrue.  When I related an experience of a Muslim lady who worked with my friend, who was constantly harassed at work because she was the only Muslim female who didn't hijab up (and she had to say extra prayers every day to atone for her sin of vanity), and my friend was trying to support her, you called my friend a liar.  Because apparently in your dream world, Muslim women never harass each other to wear their Islamic dress.

Which is why I asked if you had seen all the comments on the Nas Daily video where he was disagreeing with hijab.  Because the comments were mostly from other Muslims telling him he was wrong and should die for saying such a thing.

Edit to add:  I showed my freind your comment calling her a liar and her reply was "She's part of the problem."

Edited September 25, 2018 by Goddess

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

constantly having to re-word everyone's statements until they border on the ridiculous and nit-picking over words because they didn't say something EXACTLY the way YOU think they should of.  

I am tired of accommodating you by ensuring the words I use are gentle enough for your sensiblities, apologizing whenever you whine, putting up with endless lies, being accused of hating Canada, wanting to turn Canada into a third world country, being told my family lies.  I am tired of accommodating you.

You think Islamic extremism, as evidenced by the Burka or niqab, should not be tolerated in Canada at all.  You have that right.

I think that rhetoric that seeks to demonize one single group should also not be tolerated in Canada, whether that rhetoric comes from Muslims targetting Jews or Canadians targetting Muslims.  You know that is what you are doing or you wouldn't get so pissy when you get called on it. 

[Goddess]

5 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I am tired of accommodating you by ensuring the words I use are gentle enough for your sensiblities, apologizing whenever you whine, putting up with endless lies, being accused of hating Canada, wanting to turn Canada into a third world country, being told my family lies.  I am tired of accommodating you.

Ditto.  I think we're all tired of doing that for you.

Does this mean you'll stop re-writing everything I say?

Edited September 25, 2018 by Goddess

[dialamah]

56 minutes ago, Goddess said:

When I related an experience of a Muslim lady who worked with my friend, who was constantly harassed at work because she was the only Muslim female who didn't hijab up (and she had to say extra prayers every day to atone for her sin of vanity), and my friend was trying to support her, you called my friend a liar.  Because apparently in your dream world, Muslim women never harass each other to wear their Islamic dress.

I remember that conversation.  I did not call her a "liar".  I asked you some questions for clarification, and agreef with you that it was unacceptable. I also said that other Muslim women have different experiences and then provided an example.  But if you want, you are welcome to post exactly what I said.  Maybe I did say she was a liar and I've forgotten.

I see hateful comments from Muslims online a lot.  What I also see are many Muslims chastising the ones who express hateful things.  Usually, the chastisers outnumber the hater.  Especially on Nat Daily, I have seen that over and over.

I see the same thing on other sites, Muslim Alarmists saying hateful things about Muslims and being chastised by reasonable people. 

But where are you when hateful things are said about Muslims?  From what I can see from your behavior on this forum, you are right there clapping.  

56 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I showed my freind your comment calling her a liar and her reply was "She's part of the problem."

Maybe you could try showing her a few of Argus' posts, when he refers to Muslims as backward, barbaric, unable to change, goat herders, universally misogynistic, gay killers.  Or how about some of DoPs proclamations that unless a Muslim is actively a violent Jihadist or planning to be, they are not a "real Muslim".  Or that Muslims lie to mislead us and so any Muslim who espouses progressive values is lying.  Have you shown her any of those posts?

[dialamah]

33 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Ditto.  I think we're all tired of doing that for you.

Does this mean you'll stop re-writing everything I say?

I will certainly continue to call you out for demonizing Muslims using your exact words.  

[Goddess]

17 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I will certainly continue to call you out for demonizing Muslims using your exact words.  

Then why do you always have to re-write what people say?

Could it be to make it "sound" like they are demonizing ALL Muslims?

Edited September 25, 2018 by Goddess

[Argus]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

I see hateful comments from Muslims online a lot.  What I also see are many Muslims chastising the ones who express hateful things.  Usually, the chastisers outnumber the hater.  Especially on Nat Daily, I have seen that over and over.

What is "Nat Daily'?

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Maybe you could try showing her a few of Argus' posts, when he refers to Muslims as backward, barbaric, unable to change, goat herders, universally misogynistic, gay killers.

I don't refer to 'all Muslims as anything. I've never said they're unable to change either. I HAVE pointed out that Sharia laws are barbaric and backward, as is any culture derived from that. You constantly take what people say and rephrase it to suit your own Islamophile agenda.

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, Goddess said:

1. We can question their attitudes?  Have you noticed what happens to people who question their attitudes?

2. How do we keep out the extreme ones when we can't even agree on what constitutes extremism in Islam?   

3. I don't get the impression that you would be "fine" with any kind of questioning of Muslim attitudes. 

4. Like Dia, you seem to not feel ...  

1. Screening questionnaire.  I believe something like that happens now already.

2. Some have suggested a questionnaire.

3. Well, luckily I don't have to prove anything to you.

4. Ok, well I'm sorry that you don't like my attitude.  How can I make it up to you ?  How about I do nothing at all... and you just deal with it ?

My posts are about the moronic quest to generalize and persecute based on no information.  I don't deny that extremism exist but I won't put up with idiots.  I'm sorry if you are offended. 

[Michael Hardner]

5 hours ago, Argus said:

1. I see nothing wrong with judging any groups by its demonstrated group behaviour, be it an improvement on ours or behind us.

2. In your opinion

3. Yes, according to polls. Our media and political elites, however, are 100% opposed.

1. Generalizing in itself is loaded with fallacies and problems, and you are going beyond generalizing to actual judging.  You don't seem to care if you are wrong, so judge away then judgey...

2. Well, if you can find me a better reason go for it.

3. Didn't this idea come from a political candidate ?

[Goddess]

https://conatusnews.com/muslim-reformers-versus-islam-apologists/

I'm going to post this article again.

Quote

To change things always requires first looking the truth straight in the eye. However ugly it is, however inconvenient, however politically incorrect. That’s why I dislike apologists. No matter how handsome and well-spoken the man in a suit or the pretty sassy girl in a hijab may seem: if their message is “move along folks, nothing to see here, everything is fine and dandy” their message is at best unhelpful and naive, and at worst disingenuous. You may want to support them just because they’re Muslims and there is a lot of racism and anti-Muslim bigotry around. I sympathise with that. But, as with any group of people, not all Muslims are alike. I want to support Americans: but that doesn’t mean I will support Donald Trump. This should be obvious, but in their well-meaning anxiety to do the right thing, people frequently forget this.

 

[Hudson Jones]

Goddess, you need to chill with the brush strokes and stereotypes. There are so many different types of Muslims. You only show your ignorance by continuously commenting on how Muslims are like this or like that.

It's like someone commenting that all Christians have the same exact thoughts and beliefs.

Even if you try to validate your generalized comments with "some", you are still showing your ignorance. It shows that you have no clue about the diversity of people and are only looking at the situation from a small, ignorant lens.

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, Hudson Jones said:

Goddess, you need to chill with the brush strokes and stereotypes. There are so many different types of Muslims. You only show your ignorance by continuously commenting on how Muslims are like this or like that.

It's like someone commenting that all Christians have the same exact thoughts and beliefs.

Even if you try to validate your generalized comments with "some", you are still showing your ignorance. It shows that you have no clue about the diversity of people and are only looking at the situation from a small, ignorant lens.

Actually, no.  What matters is the truth.  If you are talking about some members of a specific group then it is perfectly okay to say so.  It's not at all like someone commenting that all Christians have the same exact thoughts and beliefs. It's like someone commenting that some Christians have the same exact thoughts and beliefs.  Some of them do.

Don't you sometimes talk about some Israelis?