Saudi Arabia expells Canadian ambassador

[Zeitgeist]

You think by calling yourself "cannuck" that you will be given a pass for trying to excuse the Kingdom's behavior?  I still remember conspiracy theorists in the U.S. going nuts over all the presidential hand-holding of the Saudi king and the fact that on 911 the one plane allowed to leave U.S. air space was the one carrying Bin Laden's bro.  I guess the hypocrisy has been consistent.  This is one of the reasons the U.S. is in such a mess in the Middle East.  It can't take an even-handed approach to the various players.  It's always alienating one power as it embraces another.  Problem is, your new best friend the Saudis contain a supreme anti-U.S. element.  Be careful whom you empower.  If you think Obama's attempt to reengage and denuclearize Iran was a mistake, wait until you have to clean up the dump Trump just took in the Mideast.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Zeitgeist

[cannuck]

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You think by calling yourself "cannuck" that you will be given a pass for trying to excuse the Kingdom's behavior?  I still remember conspiracy theorists in the U.S. going nuts over all the presidential hand-holding of the Saudi king and the fact that on 911 the one plane allowed to leave U.S. air space was the one carrying Bin Laden's bro.  I guess the hypocrisy has been consistent.  This is one of the reasons the U.S. is in such a mess in the Middle East.  It can't take an even-handed approach to the various players.  It's always alienating one power as it embraces another.  Problem is, your new best friend the Saudis contain a supreme anti-U.S. element.  Be careful whom you empower.  If you think Obama's attempt to reengage and denuclearize Iran was a mistake, wait until you have to clean up the dump Trump just took in the Mideast.

You keep judging KSA by YOUR/our standards and beliefs.  I guess you need to spend some time there to learn about the culture and understand its place within MENA and Islam.   I can and have spent prolonged periods in cities and in the dessert with Saudis.  When you DO, you will learn how very important manners are (and those manners are from THEIR viewpoint - not ours) and how incredibly stupid and insulting what Freeland did is seen to be in KSA.

You seem to forget Freeland is not just another Canadian citizen, she is supposed to be Minister of Foreign Affairs.  Her total lack of sensitivity and understanding of just about EVERYTHING foreign (and I strongly suspect, everything domestic) is typical of the quality of people chosen to surround the Drama Queen in Charge.

[cannuck]

12 hours ago, cannuck said:

oops

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by cannuck

[Zeitgeist]

Well then why did the former King Abdullah not conduct himself this way in response to similar comments from western media?  In fact either did the prince until recently.  The timing with Trump's recent extreme anti-Iranian rhetoric and policy is too coincidental.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

...  The timing with Trump's recent extreme anti-Iranian rhetoric and policy is too coincidental.

 

Nope....the exact same thing happened to Sweden and Germany, having nothing to do with Trump.

Freeland was either too stupid or didn't care what would happen when she tweeted her opinion about the KSA.

...so now Trudeau and Freeland can suffer the consequences.    Stupid is as stupid does.

[Zeitgeist]

25 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Nope....the exact same thing happened to Sweden and Germany, having nothing to do with Trump.

Freeland was either too stupid or didn't care what would happen when she tweeted her opinion about the KSA.

...so now Trudeau and Freeland can suffer the consequences.    Stupid is as stupid does.

Wrong wrong wrong.  Trudeau and Freeland are in the right on this.  How dare you stand up for the Saudis against Canada on this.  Do you have any respect for the safety and freedom of peaceful activists?  You're too busy glorying in watching Canada be undermined by a despotic regime.  And where is the State Department on this?  To call this "Stupid is as stupid does" is just plain insulting.  Canada was standing up for Canadian nationals being persecuted for peaceful protest.  Why don't you read about Canada's intervention to help the 50 U.S. hostages in Iran by giving them Canadian passports to safely get them out of the country. 

[bush_cheney2004]

6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Wrong wrong wrong.  Trudeau and Freeland are in the right on this.  How dare you stand up for the Saudis against Canada on this.  Do you have any respect for the safety and freedom of peaceful activists? 

 

No...besides, they are criminals in the KSA.

 

Quote

You're too busy glorying in watching Canada be undermined by a despotic regime.  And where is the State Department on this?  To call this "Stupid is as stupid does" is just plain insulting. 

 

The U.S. State Dept. did not force Freeland to have a brain fart and get stuck on stupid.  

Canada's "leadership" did this all on its own, and it is fun to watch them twist and squirm.

 

Quote

Canada was standing up for Canadian nationals being persecuted for peaceful protest.

 

No such thing in the KSA...very stupid to break the law there.

 

Quote

Why don't you read about Canada's intervention to help the 50 U.S. hostages in Iran by giving them Canadian passports to safely get them out of the country. 

 

I would have stayed in Iran as an American hostage than escape as a fake Canadian.

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[Zeitgeist]

It's not too late for you to move to Iran.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

It's not too late for you to move to Iran.

 

Far more Canadians will be moving to the evil USA....bye bye Trudeau !

[bush_cheney2004]

Trudeau and Freeland should leave governing by tweet to experts...like Donald Trump.

Clearly these two boobs are not qualified to play with 280 character spontaneous combustion....

 

Quote

The Trudeau government’s obsession with virtue signalling via Twitter is costing us all greatly.

It was a tweet from Trudeau, after all, that ostensibly erased our southern border and tore up Canada’s immigration laws, with tragic results for legitimate refugees and immigrants waiting to start new lives here.

... The latest fiasco is just a few days old, caused by the federal Liberal cabinet’s biggest (until this point) star — Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland.

... “Not only has this backfired in the sense that no action is being taken in what we hope would happen, but the relationship between Saudi Arabia and Canada has just gone down the toilet,” added Bratt.

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/corbella-trudeau-and-freeland-should-leave-governing-by-tweet-to-trump

 

At least call Trump and get some advice on how to use Twitter well.

[betsy]

8 hours ago, Wilber said:

Saudis crucify man

Badawi, one of the protestors Freeland referred to was sentenced to 1000 lashes and has already received 50.

As a good Christian you are obviously fine with all that. 

 

 

Who said I'm fine with any violations of human rights????  Goodness.  Never mind raising the Christian card!  You'd be better off if you try to understand what you read.  

Lol.  I'd shown you the hypocrisy of Freeland and Trudeau -  you can't refute it, can you????   And ignoring the glaring fact -  you are so very obviously fine with all that. 

So, typical with many so-called progressives (they should be appropriately called REGRESSIVES, btw ),  you're turning this personal, and you're using the Christian card.  

Okay, try to wrap this around your head:

 

Trudeau and Freeland don't really care!  

By their self-serving grandstanding on tweeter, they most likely made life even harder for the Badawis in the prison of Saudi Arabia! 

You think irate Saudis wouldn't be taking it out on them???   Think torture!  

So, never mind your crocodile tears for people who suffer under dictators!  Stop rehashing self-serving talking points by self-serving politicians!  You don't fool anyone, except the dumb.

 

If they're truly serious about securing the release of the Badawis - they would have done it quietly, and diplomatically.

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

13 hours ago, turningrite said:

Freeland, like Trudeau and many of the rest in the federal cabinet, is a naive ideologue who appears to believe that moralizing is a political parlor game of sorts. I tend to agree with the article in Macleans, 'It's time for Canada to take the next step against Saudi Arabia', which holds that if this government wants to be taken seriously on human rights it should stop nattering about abuses and take concrete action, including ceasing military sales to the Saudi regime. The article makes a good point about the extent to which other Western countries, including Trump's U.S., are compromised by having put profit ahead of principles for so long where the Saudi regime is concerned.

I suspect Freeland believed her antics would have little negative impact while her her party could burnish its own windbag moralist credentials in the lead up to the next election. She's probably somewhat dumbfounded by the harsh response. The whole international human rights regime is really a big crock as the countries that generally conform with UN principles often take the brunt of international criticism while the abusers concoct their own alternative world views and usually avoid serious scrutiny. Maybe it's time to ditch the whole morass. In the meantime, if Trudeau's government really means what it says it does, it should demonstrate some courage and give a large middle finger to the Saudi regime and its enablers among both Arab and Western countries. I suspect it doesn't have the guts to do so. There's money on the line after all and we're not morally superior to anybody else, as it turns out.

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/its-time-for-canada-to-take-the-next-step-against-saudi-arabia/ 

The poor Badawis must be getting tortured round the clock now in that Saudi prison - being the "cause" of all these, you know.

These self-serving politicians don't care at all that their big tweets would likely have severe repercussions on those that are at the mercy of a brutal regime!

 

If Freeland truly is serious about wanting to secure the release of the Badawis, they would've done so quietly......and, diplomatically.  The last thing she'd want would be to ruffle any sensitive feathers.  She knows the Saudis are sensitive - she must know!   Look what happened to Sweden and Germany.   I hope she did her homework.

 

Being the Minister of Foreign Affairs, she acted irresponsibly.

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by betsy

[DogOnPorch]

3 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Trudeau and Freeland should leave governing by tweet to experts...like Donald Trump.

Clearly these two boobs are not qualified to play with 280 character spontaneous combustion....

 

 

At least call Trump and get some advice on how to use Twitter well.

 

Perhaps Freeland needs to start photo-bombing weddings while jogging shirtless to get the Saudi's attention.

Pro-tip...

[betsy]

Here are the couple of tweets that's triggered this headache:

 

Quote

 

Chrystia Freeland

 

✔ @cafreeland

 

 

Very alarmed to learn that Samar Badawi, Raif Badawi’s sister, has been imprisoned in Saudi Arabia. Canada stands together with the Badawi family in this difficult time, and we continue to strongly call for the release of both Raif and Samar Badawi.

10:46 AM - Aug 2, 2018

 

 

 

 

Quote

Foreign Policy CAN‏Verified account @CanadaFP

 

7:10 AM - 3 Aug 2018

 

 

Canada is gravely concerned about additional arrests of civil society and women’s rights activists in #SaudiArabia, including Samar Badawi. We urge the Saudi authorities to immediately release them and all other peaceful #humanrights activists.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

 

Quote

 

Freeland's 'Trump-style tweet' to Saudis damaging to Canada: Baird

 

Former foreign affairs minister John Baird slammed Ottawa’s handling of its relations with Saudi Arabia, and urged Justin Trudeau to meet face-to-face with the Saudi government to resolve the escalating dispute.

“I think the Saudis respect when you take these conversations direct, face-to-face, and you do it in a respectful manner and not like a Trump-style tweet, which has obviously caused great damage to Canadian interests,” Baird - who served as Canada’s foreign affairs minister between 2011 and 2015 - said in an interview with BNN Bloomberg on Wednesday.

 

“What’s really needed is the prime minister to get on a plane and get over to Riyadh and try to resolve this issue,” said Baird, now senior advisor with Bennett Jones. “That’s in the interests of Canada and Canadian workers and the Canadian people.”

Baird added Canada should treat Saudi Arabia like an ally, especially in light of London, Ont.-based General Dynamics Land Systems’ $15-billion contract to supply military vehicles to the kingdom. The deal with Saudi Arabia was struck by former prime minister Stephen Harper in 2014.

“I don’t think they’ve handled this issue well,” Baird said. “When you sign a $15-billion arms deal, [Saudi Arabia] sort of expect a thank you, especially from the 3,000 jobs that are really at risk in London, Ont. We should be standing beside a friend and ally like Saudi Arabia.”

Baird also added that geopolitical strategy should be considered in keeping the Saudis happy.

 

“We share the same interests as the Saudis, but we disagree on some values,” Baird said. “But there’s no doubt that the Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman is taking the country in the right direction, pursuing a more moderate form of Islam, reducing funding to Wahhabi proselytization around the world, but also making major reforms on human rights and women’s rights.”

 

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/freeland-s-trump-style-tweet-to-saudis-damaging-to-canada-baird-1.1120883

 

 

Of course, the arrogance of Trudeau prevents him from doing the practical, and right thing to do.

 

 

[capricorn]

8 minutes ago, betsy said:

Of course, the arrogance of Trudeau prevents him from doing the practical, and right thing to do.

 

I don't think Trudeau has the stamina, physically and emotionally,  to get his ass over to Riyadh to repair the relationship. It requires more brains for face to face diplomacy than jogging shirtless and marching in pride parades.

[scribblet]

Trudeau sure is in a pickle, while I hope he stands his ground and doesn't go grovelling with an apology, he can't walk back what was said because of his feminist agenda and so on.  

We should also tell the Saudis to take their Mosques and Imams with them. 

 

Saudis say it won't affect oil sales - really - maybe Canada should stop buying

https://business.financialpost.com/commodities/energy/saudi-official-says-canada-dispute-wont-affect-oil-sales

Edited August 9, 2018 by scribblet

[Wilber]

4 hours ago, betsy said:

The poor Badawis must be getting tortured round the clock now in that Saudi prison - being the "cause" of all these, you know.

These self-serving politicians don't care at all that their big tweets would likely have severe repercussions on those that are at the mercy of a brutal regime!

 

If Freeland truly is serious about wanting to secure the release of the Badawis, they would've done so quietly......and, diplomatically.  The last thing she'd want would be to ruffle any sensitive feathers.  She knows the Saudis are sensitive - she must know!   Look what happened to Sweden and Germany.   I hope she did her homework.

 

Being the Minister of Foreign Affairs, she acted irresponsibly.

 

The Saudis are torturing the Badawis around the clock  and it is all Canada’s fault. The Saudis are forced to torture people  because of people’s tweets. Talk about f%@#*>d up logic. Talk about tribal bullshit. You take the cake.

My comment on your Christian hypocrisy stands.

[turningrite]

11 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Wrong wrong wrong.  Trudeau and Freeland are in the right on this.  How dare you stand up for the Saudis against Canada on this.  Do you have any respect for the safety and freedom of peaceful activists?  You're too busy glorying in watching Canada be undermined by a despotic regime.  And where is the State Department on this?  To call this "Stupid is as stupid does" is just plain insulting.  Canada was standing up for Canadian nationals being persecuted for peaceful protest.  Why don't you read about Canada's intervention to help the 50 U.S. hostages in Iran by giving them Canadian passports to safely get them out of the country. 

I think the point many are making is that much of this amounts to more windbag virtue-signalling, an apparent specialty of the Trudeau government. The Macleans article I referenced in a previous post noted that were JT's government really serious about confronting the Saudi regime it would stop selling arms to it. But that's not going to happen unless the Saudis pull the plug. The West has tolerated human rights abuses in the KSA for a very long time in return for, well, oil and oil money. So, we're not very principled after all and a good argument can be made that we're complicit in the continuing violation of human rights in KSA as well as other places where we simply choose to overlook abuses we in the West say we can't tolerate. Trudeau's usual line for such regimes is that they're "evolving", as if that somehow absolves all parties of responsibility. Our PM, newly energized by the Saudi spat, into which Freeland likely dragged us by accident, and loudly spouting his "values" malarkey in all directions - too bad he's still saying nothing about the Danforth shooting investigation - will no doubt stop short of serious sanctions. Equivocation is, after all, our default setting.

Oh, and you're wondering where the U.S. State Department is on this? Silent, of course, as reportedly hundreds of billions of dollars in arms sales are on the line. Money talks, as usual. Don't get carried away by concern about principles In reality, our governments don't.

[GostHacked]

Wow some of the board members here astound me.

With all the complaining about radical Islam, you'd figure that the people that oppose Islam (radical or not) would welcome this move by Trudeau. But that does not seem to be the case, instead the move is to insult Trudeau and continue to support a brutal Islamic dictatorship like Saudi Arabia.

Kicking the Saudis out of Canada would be a great move in my view.  Why is this met with such resistance by certain members here?

[GostHacked]

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/a-look-at-the-crown-prince-behind-saudi-arabia-s-spat-with-canada-1.4045769

Quote

Hours after the driving ban was lifted, women’s rights supporters who supported the change were arrested. Bin Salman has also led the charge for the war in Yemen, where Saudi-led coalition air attacks have been responsible for nearly two-thirds of civilian deaths, according to the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights.

And we call Assad a murderer??

But wait, there is more !!!

Quote

Some observers have suggested that Saudi Arabia may be following U.S. President Donald Trump’s example and bashing Prime Minister Justin Trudeau because he embodies the opposite end of the political spectrum.

Hey Betsy, why are you not calling the Saudi's Copy cats and complain about them for doing what Trump is doing?

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/at-least-43-people-including-children-killed-when-airstrike-hits-bus-in-yemen-1.4046159

Quote

SANAA, Yemen -- An airstrike by the Saudi-led coalition fighting Shiite rebels hit a bus in a market in northern Yemen on Thursday, killing at least 43 people, including children, and wounding as many as 63, Yemen's rebel-run Health Ministry said.

But the Saudis like Americans, think that killing people (in retaliation)  is all within international humanitarian law (whatever the hell that means)

Quote

Al-Malki insisted Thursday's attack carried out in Saada is a "legitimate military action" and is "in accordance with international humanitarian law and customs." He also accused the Houthis of recruiting children and using them in the battlefields to cover for their actions.

OH but then down the article is because Iran is backing the Houthis ,,, or so the claim goes.

Edited August 9, 2018 by GostHacked

[Wilber]

39 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Wow some of the board members here astound me.

With all the complaining about radical Islam, you'd figure that the people that oppose Islam (radical or not) would welcome this move by Trudeau. But that does not seem to be the case, instead the move is to insult Trudeau and continue to support a brutal Islamic dictatorship like Saudi Arabia.

Kicking the Saudis out of Canada would be a great move in my view.  Why is this met with such resistance by certain members here?

Tribal politics have nothing to do with objectivity or logic.

[DogOnPorch]

49 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Wow some of the board members here astound me.

With all the complaining about radical Islam, you'd figure that the people that oppose Islam (radical or not) would welcome this move by Trudeau. But that does not seem to be the case, instead the move is to insult Trudeau and continue to support a brutal Islamic dictatorship like Saudi Arabia.

Kicking the Saudis out of Canada would be a great move in my view.  Why is this met with such resistance by certain members here?

 

Just because certain folks are against Islam doesn't mean they are going to behave like the radical left and ban, censor, de-platform, evict, deport, punch, etc those they do not agree with. 

As I say...YOU'RE FREE to deport and ban these people. Go-on...do it.

[DogOnPorch]

13 minutes ago, Wilber said:

Tribal politics have nothing to do with objectivity or logic.

 

You're free to help these folks pack....or did you already?

[GostHacked]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Just because certain folks are against Islam doesn't mean they are going to behave like the radical left and ban, censor, de-platform, evict, deport, punch, etc those they do not agree with. 

As I say...YOU'RE FREE to deport and ban these people. Go-on...do it.

So you support the terrorist nation of Saudi Arabia?