Zeitgeist Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 15 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Canada stood up to nothing....continue dealing with the Saudis....for far less. The U.S. love affair with the Saudis is borderline sick, holding hands with the King as Saudi extremists plot U.S. destruction. Is it really worth it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: The U.S. love affair with the Saudis is borderline sick, holding hands with the King as Saudi extremists plot U.S. destruction. Is it really worth it? George Bush Jr had to hold back when kissing the Saudi royals some time back. He was ready to jam his tongue down their throats. But all this Russia collusion talk means nothing when Trump lets the Saudis off for killing a Saudi journalist in Turkey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 1 minute ago, GostHacked said: George Bush Jr had to hold back when kissing the Saudi royals some time back. He was ready to jam his tongue down their throats. But all this Russia collusion talk means nothing when Trump lets the Saudis off for killing a Saudi journalist in Turkey. The overwhelming message is that life and human rights can and should be ignored if money is to be made. What's more, these arms could be used by the Saudis against the U.S. and its allies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 52 minutes ago, GostHacked said: Wait, when did I support selling weapons to Saudi Arabia?? Quote it or shut the fuck up. I said no such thing. Are you feeling guilty? My post previous says EXACTLY what it says. Not what you wish to read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 28 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: The U.S. love affair with the Saudis is borderline sick, holding hands with the King as Saudi extremists plot U.S. destruction. Is it really worth it? Sure is worth it, especially to Canadian arms exports and sweet crude imports. How many Saudi high paying students in Canada...too many to count ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 As for the Saudis.... The ONLY reason we cater to the House of Saud as a civilization is OIL. This started before WW2 but really got going great guns after it was over. In 1974, the Saudis held the West hostage for a period by shutting-off the taps. This because Israel had the audacity to win the Yom Kippur War that Egypt and Syria started. Bringing to an end the era of the muscle car and gas for 23 cents a gallon. Nobody wise has trusted the fuckers since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Sure is worth it, especially to Canadian arms exports and sweet crude imports. How many Saudi high paying students in Canada...too many to count ! Even in this little college town...many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 53 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: The Saudis have been bankrolling and providing the anti-American framework for the Sunni Middle East for decades. They manipulate oil prices through OPEC and hang an unspoken sword of terror over the U.S.. Who is in control here? You can point to the sale of Canadian light armoured vehicles to the Saudis as problematic and hypocritical. It is and it should stop. It is not going to stop...not for Canadian or American arms exports...not for Canadian or American oil imports...not for Canadian or American oil services contracts...not for Canadian or American infrastructure contracts...and not for Canadian or American student visas paying high tuition. Why do you want somebody "in control" ? That's "authoritarian" !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: It is not going to stop...not for Canadian or American arms exports...not for Canadian or American oil imports...not for Canadian or American oil services contracts...not for Canadian or American infrastructure contracts...and not for Canadian or American student visas paying high tuition. Why do you want somebody "in control" ? That's "authoritarian" !!! Canadians...know nothing other than soft authoritarianism. Even in the frontier days, homesteaders out West would arrive to Fort Goodnessknowswhere to see not only a lone monopoly HBC trading post, but an RNWMP officer with a list of rules. Edited October 22, 2018 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 27 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: I said no such thing. Are you feeling guilty? My post previous says EXACTLY what it says. Not what you wish to read. My apologies, I am just so used to you simply going against everything I say. I am sure you can understand if I misinterpreted one of your plethora of posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) The meeting that started the 'love affair' with the House of Saud. A Democrat...heh. http://susris.com/2015/02/14/the-roosevelt-and-abdulaziz-meeting-70-years-on-a-conversation-with-thomas-lippman/ Edited October 22, 2018 by DogOnPorch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said: The Saudis have been bankrolling and providing the anti-American framework for the Sunni Middle East for decades. They manipulate oil prices through OPEC and hang an unspoken sword of terror over the U.S.. Who is in control here? You can point to the sale of Canadian light armoured vehicles to the Saudis as problematic and hypocritical. It is and it should stop. However, that's a drop in the bucket compared to U.S. military sales to the Saudis. What do you think the Saudis will do with all of these arms in the event that their neighbours or any perceived foreign enemy becomes a target for the Saudi Kingdom? I thought the U.S. had landing strips in their territory. If the U.S. can't cut off arms sales and trade (of arms from other countries) to the Saudis, that doesn't say much for U.S. hard power. What's worse, Trump seemed to tacitly encourage the Saudis to make power plays in the region, presumably as a retort to the warming of relations between the U.S. and Iran under Obama. The Saudi involvement in Yemen has been declared a human rights crisis. If the U.S. is pumping so much of its oil and Canada has such a massive oil supply (albeit not the sweet crude), why cow-tow to these bad actors? It was Saudi nationals that flew planes into the World Trade Centre. C'mon! The middle east is a cesspool. Was there ever a time that it wasn't? A great man (Ford Fairlane) once said "So many jerks, so few bullets". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 15 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: The middle east is a cesspool. Was there ever a time that it wasn't? A great man (Ford Fairlane) once said "So many jerks, so few bullets". The East and West met in battle at Marathon more or less kicking-off a prolonged conflict that even eclipses Islam. "Master! Remember the Athenians!" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionian_Revolt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 7 hours ago, WestCanMan said: You only see things from your own pov. You have an emotional reaction to things and all you think about when you make a decision is your current state of mind. No, I'm looking at things thru the lens of our nation's principles, especially those that pertain to our nation's clearly stated POV towards human rights. I'm certainly pissed off but my reaction is very much based on our nation's alleged principles. Quote It takes more than that to be a leader. You have to look ahead, and you can’t have your country be so isolationist that they just stand on the sidelines virtue signalling while changes are happening all around. So you prefer we just follow the crowd around and launder our reputation instead of taking a stand and upholding our principles? Quote If our government ever decides to completely turn it’s back on our veterans there will be more than just demonstrations or riots. Listening to you guys I'm convinced you'd overthrow the government for not sticking it's tongue up Saudi Arabia's ass even farther than it already has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 hour ago, eyeball said: No, I'm looking at things thru the lens of our nation's principles, especially those that pertain to our nation's clearly stated POV towards human rights. I'm certainly pissed off but my reaction is very much based on our nation's alleged principles. So you prefer we just follow the crowd around and launder our reputation instead of taking a stand and upholding our principles? Listening to you guys I'm convinced you'd overthrow the government for not sticking it's tongue up Saudi Arabia's ass even farther than it already has. Ok, so here’s how it all goes down if you get your way: 1) we stooge the Saudis on this shipment of APCs 2) the Saudis buy APCs from China instead 3) the Saudis continue to be dicks for the 1,500th year in a row 4) our economy suffers 5) Chinas economy gets a boost 6) we no longer have any influence with the Saudis 7) China and the saudis build a closer relationship 8) other countries around the world don’t want to deal with us because they know that we’re going to unilaterally back out of deals that we make when we get offended. 9) we have a bunch of workers and suppliers to pay for the construction of all these APCs and no money coming in for them. But the benefit here is that we get to believe that we have a shiny reputation. Guess what... at the UN no one gives a crap about anything that anyone does aside from Israel. The Saudis can do whatever they want and in a few weeks they’ll have a clean slate again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 50 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: Ok, so here’s how it all goes down if you get your way: 1) we stooge the Saudis on this shipment of APCs 2) the Saudis buy APCs from China instead 3) the Saudis continue to be dicks for the 1,500th year in a row 4) our economy suffers 5) Chinas economy gets a boost 6) we no longer have any influence with the Saudis 7) China and the saudis build a closer relationship 8) other countries around the world don’t want to deal with us because they know that we’re going to unilaterally back out of deals that we make when we get offended. 9) we have a bunch of workers and suppliers to pay for the construction of all these APCs and no money coming in for them. But the benefit here is that we get to believe that we have a shiny reputation. Guess what... at the UN no one gives a crap about anything that anyone does aside from Israel. The Saudis can do whatever they want and in a few weeks they’ll have a clean slate again. Right, so don’t even let them buy arms from other countries if they’re going to continue to destabilize democratic movements within and without their borders. That country is trouble and gets a free pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 2 hours ago, eyeball said: No, I'm looking at things thru the lens of our nation's principles, especially those that pertain to our nation's clearly stated POV towards human rights. ...try looking thru the reality of your nation's domestic and international actions instead, not political rhetoric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 17 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Right, so don’t even let them buy arms from other countries if they’re going to continue to destabilize democratic movements within and without their borders. That country is trouble and gets a free pass. Who is going to stop them....mighty Canada ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 8 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Who is going to stop them....mighty Canada ? At least we publicly speak out against Saudi human rights abuses, little old Canada, while mighty America kisses Saudi Prince’s ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: At least we publicly speak out against Saudi human rights abuses, little old Canada, while mighty America kisses Saudi Prince’s ass. In other words, pretend to attack the Saudi government while insisting that a $15 billion arms contract continue. Yes...that is very Canadian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said: In other words, pretend to attack the Saudi government while insisting that a $15 billion arms contract continue. Yes...that is very Canadian. Trump is talking $400 billion in Saudi purchasing from America. I think we should stop all arms sales to the Saudis and go further in rebuking the regime, both rhetorically and economically. So should America. Don’t worry, America can buy all the oil it wants from Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said: Trump is talking $400 billion in Saudi purchasing from America. I think we should stop all arms sales to the Saudis and go further in rebuking the regime, both rhetorically and economically. So should America. Don’t worry, America can buy all the oil it wants from Canada. Interesting...what other great foreign policy ideas do you have for other nations ? The Saudis have far more leverage than Canada using a much better grade of oil and the will to build pipelines for export terminals to many other nations, not just the U.S. or Canada. As usual, Saudi exports are also far more diversified than Canada's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Interesting...what other great foreign policy ideas do you have for other nations ? The Saudis have far more leverage than Canada using a much better grade of oil and the will to build pipelines for export terminals to many other nations, not just the U.S. or Canada. As usual, Saudi exports are also far more diversified than Canada's. Don’t insult us. Canada’s exports are far more diverse. Apart from oil, list Saudi exports. It’s a short list. Why do you insist on remaining energy dependent on a regime that has covertly funded anti-US terrorism? How many US products are the Saudis buying? We buy more of your products than any country. Edited October 23, 2018 by Zeitgeist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said: Don’t insult us. Canada’s exports are far more diverse. Apart from oil, list Saudi exports. It’s a short list. Why do you insist on remaining energy dependent on a regime that has covertly funded anti-US terrorism? Diversified means export markets, not mixed economy. Saudi oil exports mean far more to the world than Canadian oil exports. Why does Canada insist on being economically dependent on the United States, a longstanding Saudi ally ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Diversified means export markets, not mixed economy. Saudi oil exports mean far more to the world than Canadian oil exports. Why does Canada insist on being economically dependent on the United States, a longstanding Saudi ally ? How foolish. You won't even acknowledge a trade fact, that no country buys as many U.S. exports as Canada, a democratic ally that has the world's second largest oil reserves. Our export supply is extremely diverse, and in fact, we could also become a major oil exporter approaching the level of Saudi Arabia. I know China and other markets are very interested in our oil and have invested in the oil sands. Also, you're not answering a perfectly sensible question: Why would you continue to remain energy reliant on a country that is in no way an ally of yours, except before the cameras, and that has sought the U.S.'s destruction? As long as you continue this dance with the devil, your country's democratic values will be undermined as you turn a blind eye to human rights abuses, undemocratic behavior, and the funneling of oil money (from countries like yours) to anti-American terrorist groups? This is one more reason the U.S. is moving further from democratic values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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