Ford eviscerates local GTA politics

[taxme]

19 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

The long post asserts that liberals would lock up those who disagree with others, but the poster himself has called for the gulag.  Really this explains why such views are held up for marginalization.

Go back and read what I said again and get it right this time. You are great at not being able to figure out as to what is ever being said. You prefer to try and take everything I say out of context all the time. Do you really understand Englishes? LOL. 

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, taxme said:

 "Earthlings"? What the hell is that suppose to mean?

People from Earth. You don't get out much do you?

[OftenWrong]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'm muchly supportive of principled conservatism but I fear we don't have any principles in Ford's government, and your cheerleading confirms his supporters are on board.

A bit early to decide yet, isn't it? I'm in favour of wait and see. To heck with some opinion panel full of outraged liberals.

[Centerpiece]

Ford's doing the right thing. The timing and execution remain to be seen. Toronto Council at "work" reminds me what Stephen Harper said to an aide in his consulting firm. He said "You're not in government anymore where it takes forever to accomplish nothing". If you've watched Council over the last 25 years or so, that's what's been going on. It's so blatantly obvious that the current setup does not work. Other big cities get by - and thrive - with smaller councils. If it doesn't run up against interminable injunctions - I agree - throw a grenade in there and get Council back to their basic roles and responsibilities - not pet projects. I'm looking forward to a refreshed and renewed council - hopefully with term limits for councilors.

[Michael Hardner]

4 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

A bit early to decide yet, isn't it? 

No.  F*cking up Canada's largest city without any consultation pretty much ends the wait-and-see period for me.  I'll compare it to the event that ended your J. Trudeau honeymoon any time.

[OftenWrong]

16 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

F*cking up Canada's largest city without any consultation pretty much ends the wait-and-see period for me.

Did he not win the Premiership on a platform of cutting government?

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, OftenWrong said:

Did he not win the Premiership on a platform of cutting government?

It's not his business to cut Toronto's government.  He quit the mayor's race, to run for premier not to be John Tory's boss.  

Also, Mike Harris amalgamated Toronto and threw it into chaos to save money also.  What happened to that idea ?  Oh yes, it didn't work.  Also, since Ford it Ontario's first people's government I guess Harris' government wasn't a peoples' government anyway, which is why Ford doesn't have to actually consult or do any god damned planning or thinking before f*cking up Canada's biggest city.

Running a photocopying store doesn't qualify somebody to restructure Toronto, even if the voters did make him premier.  He's not king and he should pick his battles more carefully.

[OftenWrong]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

Running a photocopying store doesn't qualify somebody to restructure Toronto, even if the voters did make him premier.  He's not king and he should pick his battles more carefully.

He didn't just win, he won by majority, and as far as I know has the legal authority to do what he's doing.

Personally I was shocked when he won, and I mocked the process and voters who put him in power. They gave him total power, with nary an idea of what he was going to do. All that mattered was to remove the Liberals/ Wynne. The thing that is bothering you is bigger than just Doug Ford, and may yet get worse. Best you relax and have a drink.

[Michael Hardner]

8 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

1. He didn't just win, he won by majority, and as far as I know has the legal authority to do what he's doing.

2. Personally I was shocked when he won,

3. and I mocked the process and voters who put him in power.  They gave him total power, with nary an idea of what he was going to do. 

4. All that mattered was to remove the Liberals/ Wynne.

5. The thing that is bothering you is bigger than just Doug Ford, and may yet get worse. Best you relax and have a drink.

1. Perhaps, but I will bet that it is tested.  That also leaves aside the moral authority and the political cost of acting this way.

2. WTF ?  WHY ?  Do you not look at the news ?  He was far ahead in every poll.

3. He does not have total power.  His powers are limited by the federal courts, provincial courts and federal government (to an extent).  His own party can also keep him in check.

4. I agree.

5. What bothers me is that so much of the province (and all of North American jurisdictions are the same) is made up of people who have no idea, and have no interest in how things work.  Furthermore, the system itself is so complicated that it defies a rational democratic system to run it.  So much of it is run on trust, and now we have an open communication system with agents fomenting distrust.  I don't think Ford is going to wreck Ontario but he will sow disunity.  The thing about disunity is that when the other guys get in power they will go even farther than the last guy with their anti-Democratic ways.

 

 

 

[bush_cheney2004]

I think it is fun to watch from another nation in "North America".   Canada smugly scoffed at the ideas of Donald Trump...then Ontario elected its own version in a landslide while sending the hated Liberals to minor party purgatory.

This is what democracy looks like.

[Michael Hardner]

18 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

1. Canada smugly scoffed at the ideas of Donald Trump... 

2. This is what democracy looks like.

1. Mea culpa.  Although once he had the nomination, I checked my notes and realized that nothing is for certain, and pollsters' overconfidence is a well-known problem.  

2. To be determined.  It's what democracy looks like today, but I believe it is different from the past.  This is what history looks like, I'd say.  Whether democracy continues as it has is an open question.

[bush_cheney2004]

18 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Mea culpa.  Although once he had the nomination, I checked my notes and realized that nothing is for certain, and pollsters' overconfidence is a well-known problem.  

2. To be determined.  It's what democracy looks like today, but I believe it is different from the past.  This is what history looks like, I'd say.  Whether democracy continues as it has is an open question.

 

1) Trump faced far more barriers to office...some were even self inflicted...but Ford cruised to easy victory on very short notice.   Ontario knew what it wanted...and what it would no longer tolerate.

2) The basics of "democracy" aren't suddenly different just because it coughs up an unexpected result.  Doug Ford has mandated power, and it looks like he damn well intends to use it.    Remember another democratically elected Canadian's words, "Just watch me."

Edited July 29, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[Michael Hardner]

6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

1) Trump faced far more barriers to office...some were even self inflicted...but Ford cruised to easy victory on very short notice.   Ontario knew what it wanted.

2) The basics of "democracy" aren't suddenly different just because it coughs up an unexpected result.   

1) Agreed, again.

2) Agreed.

I ask without forethought of an answer: How would we know if democracy had indeed changed ?  What were the changes/challenges to democracy in the past ?  These questions don't need an answer btw.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I ask without forethought of an answer: How would we know if democracy had indeed changed ?  What were the changes/challenges to democracy in the past ?  These questions don't need an answer btw.

 

I don't think democracy has ever changed....it is mob rule regulated by constitutional framework(s).   So election outcomes manifest themselves in different ways depending on prevailing factors.   Ontario was ripe for a sea change election.    And it can works both ways....NDP now has power in Alberta.

Voters often use their power to strike back at the past instead of contemplating the future....democracy all the same.

[Michael Hardner]

11 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

1. I don't think democracy has ever changed....it is mob rule regulated by constitutional framework(s).   

2. Voters often use their power to strike back at the past instead of contemplating the future....democracy all the same.

1. Semantic discussion.  Obviously there have been *some* changes but if you are saying it hasn't changed substantially then ok.

2. I would say voting is more of a reactive decision process than a forward thinking one but that's just a guess.

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Semantic discussion.  Obviously there have been *some* changes but if you are saying it hasn't changed substantially then ok.

2. I would say voting is more of a reactive decision process than a forward thinking one but that's just a guess.

 

1)  There have been social and political changes for who gets to vote, but the underlying concepts/principals remain the same.

2) It can be, but many eligible voters remain disengaged by choice...they just don't care.   The majority of voters will not make cheesy signs and join in protest marches or political campaigns.    Voting day is just another circle on the calendar.

[taxme]

On 7/28/2018 at 2:49 PM, eyeball said:

People from Earth. You don't get out much do you?

I pretty much can see now as to who the earthlings are that you really support alright and they are foreigners. But why you cannot just admit it is beyond me. It's no wonder Canada is on the downward slope into the swamp. And I do get out a lot. I don't just listen to the CBC for my news. CBC is an anti white racist news network anyway. Just saying.   

Edited July 30, 2018 by taxme

[taxme]

On 7/28/2018 at 5:49 PM, Centerpiece said:

Ford's doing the right thing. The timing and execution remain to be seen. Toronto Council at "work" reminds me what Stephen Harper said to an aide in his consulting firm. He said "You're not in government anymore where it takes forever to accomplish nothing". If you've watched Council over the last 25 years or so, that's what's been going on. It's so blatantly obvious that the current setup does not work. Other big cities get by - and thrive - with smaller councils. If it doesn't run up against interminable injunctions - I agree - throw a grenade in there and get Council back to their basic roles and responsibilities - not pet projects. I'm looking forward to a refreshed and renewed council - hopefully with term limits for councilors.

Every time the conservatives try to make Canada great again, it is the liberals and the socialist NDP that keep lobing the grenades into all government institutions and councils to screw things up. What Ford needs to do if he could would be to throw the whole Toronto city council out on the street and start over. That council is full of leftists liberal/socialists, red Tories and communists and they all should be sent to some socialist/communist country for a year and hopefully then they will see just how stunned and dumb downed they have become ever since old man Trudeau and his liberal/socialist/communist agendas and programs has been brainwashing their politically correct brain dead minds for several decades now.. Capitalism works, socialism does not. Ford is doing the right thing for Ontario but when it comes to some here he is armageddon. Some people's kids. LOL. 

[taxme]

On 7/28/2018 at 9:25 PM, Michael Hardner said:

It's not his business to cut Toronto's government.  He quit the mayor's race, to run for premier not to be John Tory's boss.  

Also, Mike Harris amalgamated Toronto and threw it into chaos to save money also.  What happened to that idea ?  Oh yes, it didn't work.  Also, since Ford it Ontario's first people's government I guess Harris' government wasn't a peoples' government anyway, which is why Ford doesn't have to actually consult or do any god damned planning or thinking before f*cking up Canada's biggest city.

Running a photocopying store doesn't qualify somebody to restructure Toronto, even if the voters did make him premier.  He's not king and he should pick his battles more carefully.

Have you ever heard the words "Red Tories"? I am pretty sure that there are plenty of liberals in Canada wearing conservative clothing. Mulroney was one of them. He could not make it in the liberal party so he joined the conservative party. I just have to wonder as to how many liberals are in the conservative party today because the past few conservative party's pretty much went along with the lines of liberalism. Other than Kellie Leitch the rest of them appear to be liberals in conservative garb. I hope that I am wrong and that they are not all just a bunch of politically correct liberals and just another dam liberal party. 

You should take a wait and see approach rather than try and make Ford out to be leading Ontario into Armageddon. The problem with liberals and socialists in this country is that they have been allowed to run and ruin this great country and be able to get away with their bull chit of doing nothing for Canada or Canadians but just gave us all plenty of f'n it all up. 

Maybe you can enlighten tell me as to what liberalism has done for Canada for all these several decades. I sure would like to know because I cannot find out anywhere where they have done something good for Canada or Canadians except made homosexuality and same sex marriage legal and in Ontario allowing boys to use girls washrooms. Well? 

[taxme]

On 7/28/2018 at 9:37 PM, OftenWrong said:

He didn't just win, he won by majority, and as far as I know has the legal authority to do what he's doing.

Personally I was shocked when he won, and I mocked the process and voters who put him in power. They gave him total power, with nary an idea of what he was going to do. All that mattered was to remove the Liberals/ Wynne. The thing that is bothering you is bigger than just Doug Ford, and may yet get worse. Best you relax and have a drink.

I don't think that most of the Ontario people knew what they were getting into either when they voted in Wynne as premier. I do not believe that Wynne told the Ontario citizen's as to what she had in mind for them. As they say let's wait and see. I mean come on can Ford do any worse as to what Wynne has done to Ontario? I can only see Ford making Ontario great again and not worse. It's best that we all just relax and have a drink. Gawd only knows that I need a drink after dealing with some members here. Cheers. LOL. 

[taxme]

On 7/29/2018 at 6:03 AM, Michael Hardner said:

1. Perhaps, but I will bet that it is tested.  That also leaves aside the moral authority and the political cost of acting this way.

2. WTF ?  WHY ?  Do you not look at the news ?  He was far ahead in every poll.

3. He does not have total power.  His powers are limited by the federal courts, provincial courts and federal government (to an extent).  His own party can also keep him in check.

4. I agree.

5. What bothers me is that so much of the province (and all of North American jurisdictions are the same) is made up of people who have no idea, and have no interest in how things work.  Furthermore, the system itself is so complicated that it defies a rational democratic system to run it.  So much of it is run on trust, and now we have an open communication system with agents fomenting distrust.  I don't think Ford is going to wreck Ontario but he will sow disunity.  The thing about disunity is that when the other guys get in power they will go even farther than the last guy with their anti-Democratic ways.

 

 

 

5. True. The only time people get involved in politics is on election day. After that it is back to business as usual until the next election. The political system is complicated because politicians make it and like to keep it that way. Keep the masses confused and divided. They have you and me always at each others throats. That is not good for Canada. Ford will not be sowing any kind of disunity. The ones that will start to sow the seeds of disunity will be the leftist liberals/socialists and the leftist liberal media who will now be on the warpath and out to try and get Ford scalped at all costs. We see that happening in America with the leftist liberal/democrats constantly attacking and mocking Trump every day. Ford will have to mind his P's and Q's if he wants to avoid being harassed every day by those snowflake leftist liberal losers. They will always be crybaby sore losers who will never accept defeat. A sad lot indeed. 

[taxme]

On 7/29/2018 at 7:52 AM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

1) Trump faced far more barriers to office...some were even self inflicted...but Ford cruised to easy victory on very short notice.   Ontario knew what it wanted...and what it would no longer tolerate.

2) The basics of "democracy" aren't suddenly different just because it coughs up an unexpected result.  Doug Ford has mandated power, and it looks like he damn well intends to use it.    Remember another democratically elected Canadian's words, "Just watch me."

The people of Ontario have decided that they had enough of leftist liberalism and socialism and wanted to try democracy and capitalism for a change. It is working in America with Trump as President and hopefully conservatism will work here in Ontario for Ford. Now if Canada can elect a federal government that will believe in more democracy and capitalism and less liberalism and socialism Canada could be made great again just like it was before papa Trudeau came along and pretty much destroyed this once great nation. 

[eyeball]

11 hours ago, taxme said:

I pretty much can see now as to who the earthlings are that you really support alright and they are foreigners. But why you cannot just admit it is beyond me.

Earthlings are not foreign to this planet. Admit it, you just can't acknowledge this can you?

[Centerpiece]

Toronto Council voted 24-17 to try to find ways to contest Ford's edict to cut Councilors from 47 to 25. I'm pleasantly surprised that 17 councilors were in favour of just accepting the decision and moving on. The Star, in an editorial entitled "The Man who Would be King" had this to say:

In response, Toronto council voted overwhelmingly to dispatch the city legal department to try and find some constitutional or legal grounds to challenge Ford's legislation. 

And this: Giorgio Mammoliti, one of a handful of Toronto councilors on Ford's side.......

I regret I do not have free access to the editorial section so I can't provide a link.

Here's an amusing side story - The Star - in the same edition - published YES/NO columns in answer to the question "Should Doug Ford Cut City Council". The "NO" column implied that it MIGHT be OK but the timing is wrong and consultation is needed. The "Yes" column fully supported the move with some interesting reasoning.

Quote

 

Here's an excerpt from the "NO" column...

Let’s get something out of the way here, premier: You like to say you haven’t met anyone who wants to see the size of Toronto City Council increased. Fair enough. In fact, there seem to be very few people who want the status quo preserved at all costs....................

The people who are saying “Let’s talk about this” are not necessarily opposed to the idea of reducing the size of council — including Mayor Tory. We’re just baffled by the timing. It’s like shaking someone awake at 6 a.m. and telling them to blow out the candles on a birthday cake two months before their actual birthday. It’s not that they don’t like birthdays, premier, it’s just that your timing is way off.

 

Link: https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/thebigdebate/2018/07/31/should-doug-ford-cut-city-council-in-half-right-now-no.html

Quote

 

Here's an excerpt from the "YES" column - I've only included a point which I really like - but there's much more to read (on both the YES and NO)

Finally, democracy would be improved if the municipal wards mirrored the federal and provincial boundaries. Many Torontonians don’t even know who their local councillor is, let alone which ward they live in. And the proliferation of candidates and wards makes it even harder for voters to make informed decisions.

Studies have shown that low information among voters leads to higher incumbency rates and makes it harder for voters to track their councillors’ actions and hold them accountable.

Mirroring the federal and provincial boundaries will make following municipal political developments easier and less confusing for voters, improving the democratic process.

 

Link: https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/thebigdebate/2018/07/31/should-doug-ford-cut-city-council-in-half-right-now-yes.html

[taxme]

13 hours ago, eyeball said:

Earthlings are not foreign to this planet. Admit it, you just can't acknowledge this can you?

I am an "earthling" conservative and not an "earthling" liberal and therefore I cannot be stupid but only very smart.   You still refuse to acknowledge as to whether Canadians or foreigners come first with you. It is very sad indeed when the rest of the world is more important to you than Canada or Canadians. Deplorable.