Has Trump made it necessary to disband NATO?

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, taxme said:

FYI, Trump just reduced the debt from 900 billion to 500 billion since he became President. Not bad, eh? So, just how much did Trudeau reduce our debt by lately?  

Trump’s greatest failure was refusing to support the Paris Accord, but that’s a story for historians to write 50 years from now when the coastline of Florida and the Eastern Seaboard are under water.  

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

Trump’s greatest failure was refusing to support the Paris Accord, but that’s a story for historians to write 50 years from now when the coastline of Florida and the Eastern Seaboard are under water.  

 

Balderdash....it was Trump's finest hour....so far.    Make promise.....keep promise.   

[Zeitgeist]

58 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Balderdash....it was Trump's finest hour....so far.    Make promise.....keep promise.   

Corrupt from the beginning.  

[bush_cheney2004]

34 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Corrupt from the beginning.  

 

Agreed...the Paris Climate Agreement has been corrupt from the very beginning...and still is.

[Zeitgeist]

9 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Agreed...the Paris Climate Agreement has been corrupt from the very beginning...and still is.

Just hope that Gaia doesn't completely turn on humanity in your lifetime, so that you can live to regret that statement.

[taxme]

18 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Trump’s greatest failure was refusing to support the Paris Accord, but that’s a story for historians to write 50 years from now when the coastline of Florida and the Eastern Seaboard are under water.  

Why should Trump have signed on to the Paris Accord?  Quit with the drama. Florida and the Eastern Seaboard will not be under water in 50 years and if it is by chance all under water well that would not be due to Trump not signing the Accord. Blame it all on nature.  And by then you and me will probably be pushing up daisies. 

Now why don't you point out some of the good things that Trump has done already? Everything posted here by everyone is always negative.  Need help? Ask me. 

[Argus]

On 9/2/2018 at 1:22 PM, Zeitgeist said:

I think China will be a necessary counter to US and Russian polarities.  

China is not in any way even remotely close to being a fair trader. They are a hundred times worse than Trump's America.

Edited September 7, 2018 by Argus

[Zeitgeist]

20 hours ago, Argus said:

China is not in any way even remotely close to being a fair trader. They are a hundred times worse than Trump's America.

I think that if Trump is serious about scrapping NATO and expanding Russia and China’s sphere of influence, we might as well see what China has to offer.  Think of all the US made messes that NATO has had to clean up.  Even though NATO partners stood up to defend the US after 911, it’s clear that Trump doesn’t want the US to reciprocate.  If killing NATO reduces US hegemony and prevents erratic US leaders from doing further damage, maybe China is worth serious consideration for a new alliance.  President Xi is more level headed and probably more trustworthy than Trump. 

[Michael Hardner]

56 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

1. I think that if Trump is serious about scrapping NATO and expanding Russia and China’s sphere of influence, we might as well see what China has to offer.  

2. Think of all the US made messes that NATO has had to clean up.  

3. Even though NATO partners stood up to defend the US after 911, it’s clear that Trump doesn’t want the US to reciprocate.  

4. If killing NATO reduces US hegemony and prevents erratic US leaders from doing further damage, maybe China is worth serious consideration for a new alliance.  President Xi is more level headed and probably more trustworthy than Trump. 

1. China is far from a natural ally to us.  "See what they have to offer" implies trust which we do not have with China.

2. 'All' ?  I can think of maybe one.

3. Agreed.  The one time NATO was called upon to defend an 'attacked' country, it was the US.  Now they seem to be losing interest again.  The only thing that talking to China might do is alert the US to the fact that we are a natural ally that borders them.

4. No, but the fact that you are even posting this reflects that others are also thinking it.

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

the fact that you are even posting this reflects that others are also thinking it.

Only commies are thinking about it... and sending their spokesmen to preach it.

[Michael Hardner]

54 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Only commies are thinking about it... and sending their spokesmen to preach it.

Hmmm.... sounds like you're saying Z is a Commie spokesman.  Or maybe Trump... not sure.

[OftenWrong]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Hmmm.... sounds like you're saying Z is a Commie spokesman.  Or maybe Trump... not sure.

I have said neither, but I do not doubt there are Marxist sympathizers among us. Why would anyone think that Trump is a communist, or wants to give support to China?
For that matter, why believe he wants to disband NATO? According to NATO president Jens  Stoltenberg, Trump's work has helped to make NATO stronger.

[bush_cheney2004]

6 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I have said neither, but I do not doubt there are Marxist sympathizers among us. Why would anyone think that Trump is a communist, or wants to give support to China?
For that matter, why believe he wants to disband NATO? According to NATO president Jens  Stoltenberg, Trump's work has helped to make NATO stronger.

 

Agreed.....Trump has just booted NATO deadbeats in the ass...same as previous presidents.   Were they "communists" too ?

[Michael Hardner]

5 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

 Why would anyone think that Trump is a communist, or wants to give support to China? For that matter, why believe he wants to disband NATO?  

These are good questions, however rhetorical.

[Argus]

On 9/8/2018 at 10:24 AM, Zeitgeist said:

I think that if Trump is serious about scrapping NATO and expanding Russia and China’s sphere of influence, we might as well see what China has to offer.  Think of all the US made messes that NATO has had to clean up.  Even though NATO partners stood up to defend the US after 911, it’s clear that Trump doesn’t want the US to reciprocate.  If killing NATO reduces US hegemony and prevents erratic US leaders from doing further damage, maybe China is worth serious consideration for a new alliance.  President Xi is more level headed and probably more trustworthy than Trump. 

China is an amoral, omnivorous economic animal that has no soul, nor human feelings of empathy. It will eat anything in its path and have no qualms whatsoever about what happens to what it's ingesting. I can see using them to play off against the Americans, but they are even less trustworthy than Trump.

[Zeitgeist]

10 minutes ago, Argus said:

China is an amoral, omnivorous economic animal that has no soul, nor human feelings of empathy. It will eat anything in its path and have no qualms whatsoever about what happens to what it's ingesting. I can see using them to play off against the Americans, but they are even less trustworthy than Trump.

I’m not convinced that the current U.S. Executive Branch is more moral than the secretariat of President Xi.  Xi is more temperate and, ironically, less dictatorial than Trump, despite the fact that the Chinese system affords him more dictator-like powers.  He supports the Paris Agreement on Climate Change and has cracked down on corruption.  Is the U.S. a better country to live in than China? Yes.  Is the U.S. currently moving in a better direction than China?  No.