Justin Trudeau wrecking Federalism

[capricorn]

Quote

Ottawa has quietly renewed the equalization formula to keep it in its current form to 2024, but the move seems to have caught those looking for changes to the sometimes contentious federal program off-guard.

Provinces such as Saskatchewan and Alberta – “have” provinces under equalization still suffering lingering economic effects as a result of a sharp downturn in oil and gas sector activity – said this week they are looking for modifications to the program.

But federal Finance Minister Bill Morneau’s office said a five-year renewal of the program, mostly in-line with the formula that exists today, will come into force in April, 2019, after the Budget Implementation Act received royal assent on Thursday. His office said Ottawa’s intention to renew the program was clearly communicated to the provinces.

--

The news could ratchet up tensions at a finance ministers meeting convened to discuss trade and global competiveness issues in Ottawa on Tuesday. But Dan Lauzon, a spokesman for Mr. Morneau, said federal officials have stayed in close contact with provincial counterparts.

“The process of renewal began long ago, and provinces and territories were consulted and kept informed every step of the way. It was on the agenda and discussed at the political level at the finance ministers meeting in December,” Mr. Lauzon said. He added there was mention of the renewal in the February federal budget, in letters to provincial finance ministers, and specifics were laid out in the Budget Implementation Act.

However, the renewal seems to have caught some western provinces unawares. Saskatchewan Premier Scott Moe announced his province’s new proposal for equalization this week, and said he wanted it discussed at the summer meeting of premiers next month in Saint Andrews, N.B.

In an interview on Wednesday, the Saskatchewan Premier did not know that Ottawa already had definitively decided the fate of the program for the 2019-2024 period.

“That would be news to me. It’s my understanding that the time for a decision for the five-year review is 2019,” he said when informed that Mr. Morneau’s office had said the equalization formula will remain as it is to 2024.

---

This year, Quebec will receive the lion’s share of equalization payments, at $11.7 billion. The “have” provinces that receive no equalization payments are British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan and Newfoundland and Labrador.

con't...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-ottawa-renews-equalization-formula-to-remain-in-current-form-to-2024/

Not surprising, Jason Kenney, leader of the United Party of Alberta, is livid. Can't blame him seeing Quebec blocked the energy east project, inflicting economic pain in Alberta. What's amazing is that Quebec, a supposed have-not province, has had balanced budgets for the last number of years and  offers a whack of social programs to its citizens. No wonder, since the have provinces are subsidizing those goodies.

Did the Liberals losing the recent by-election in Quebec factor in Trudeau's decision to ensure that Quebec continue to reap those billions in equalization. Trudeau knows his name is mud in the West so he must look to Quebec for reelection in 2019.

Quebec is laughing all the way to the bank. No wonder federalism is taking a hold in La Belle Province. They know they've got a good thing going.

[Centerpiece]

59 minutes ago, capricorn said:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-ottawa-renews-equalization-formula-to-remain-in-current-form-to-2024/

Not surprising, Jason Kenney, leader of the United Party of Alberta, is livid. Can't blame him seeing Quebec blocked the energy east project, inflicting economic pain in Alberta. What's amazing is that Quebec, a supposed have-not province, has had balanced budgets for the last number of years and  offers a whack of social programs to its citizens. No wonder, since the have provinces are subsidizing those goodies.

Did the Liberals losing the recent by-election in Quebec factor in Trudeau's decision to ensure that Quebec continue to reap those billions in equalization. Trudeau knows his name is mud in the West so he must look to Quebec for reelection in 2019.

Quebec is laughing all the way to the bank. No wonder federalism is taking a hold in La Belle Province. They know they've got a good thing going.

Absolutely amazing. Equalization usually gets a lot of play in the media - and what have we heard? Nothing....crickets. Even the provinces seem unaware. This government gets just about everything wrong - with a good dollop of arrogance added in.

[Hates politicians]

Becaus turdeau is from quebec he will always cater to them. We need to have a referendum where quebec either  joins canada as an equal english speaking partner or get rid of them for good. No special rights

[capricorn]

Quote

Quebec invests $50M to offer breakfast at schools in low-income areas

http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/quebec-invests-50m-to-offer-breakfast-at-schools-in-low-income-areas

I'm all for such initiatives that benefit kids. But isn't it remarkable that a have-not province is able to afford such programs. By all signs, Quebec is doing very well financially, yet they'll continue to reap billions annually from the federal treasury. I'm not so sure Alberta could afford this at the moment due to their economic woes, caused by those who won't let Alberta get their oil to market.

[capricorn]

2 hours ago, Centerpiece said:

Absolutely amazing. Equalization usually gets a lot of play in the media - and what have we heard? Nothing....crickets. Even the provinces seem unaware. This government gets just about everything wrong - with a good dollop of arrogance added in.

Re the media. No surprise there. Canadians are so wrapped up in the US media coverage of illegal migrants they're blind to what's going on in their own country.

[PIK]

1 hour ago, capricorn said:

http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/quebec-invests-50m-to-offer-breakfast-at-schools-in-low-income-areas

I'm all for such initiatives that benefit kids. But isn't it remarkable that a have-not province is able to afford such programs. By all signs, Quebec is doing very well financially, yet they'll continue to reap billions annually from the federal treasury. I'm not so sure Alberta could afford this at the moment due to their economic woes, caused by those who won't let Alberta get their oil to market.

I am sure they received 3/4 of all equalization money last yr.

[bush_cheney2004]

58 minutes ago, capricorn said:

Re the media. No surprise there. Canadians are so wrapped up in the US media coverage of illegal migrants they're blind to what's going on in their own country.

 

No joke....it is amazing to watch the media churn on this...in Canada !

[taxme]

6 hours ago, capricorn said:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-ottawa-renews-equalization-formula-to-remain-in-current-form-to-2024/

Not surprising, Jason Kenney, leader of the United Party of Alberta, is livid. Can't blame him seeing Quebec blocked the energy east project, inflicting economic pain in Alberta. What's amazing is that Quebec, a supposed have-not province, has had balanced budgets for the last number of years and  offers a whack of social programs to its citizens. No wonder, since the have provinces are subsidizing those goodies.

Did the Liberals losing the recent by-election in Quebec factor in Trudeau's decision to ensure that Quebec continue to reap those billions in equalization. Trudeau knows his name is mud in the West so he must look to Quebec for reelection in 2019.

Quebec is laughing all the way to the bank. No wonder federalism is taking a hold in La Belle Province. They know they've got a good thing going.

Quebec runs and rules the rest of Canada. The only province other than Quebec that are getting screwed in this country are the rest of the provinces in Canada. For Quebec to have a balanced budget while the rest do not only shows that the french are running Ottawa and Ottawa has always been looking out for Quebec and it's interests and concerns only. When Quebec says no to something there is no problem. When another province says no to something they get all kinds of flak from our dear leaders and the liberal MSM. 

I read a book many decades ago called "Bilingualism Today, French Tomorrow" and how true today as to what the writer wrote in that book that has come true. Quebec is now a french speaking province(nation)only but low and behold the rest of the country has pretty much become bilingual. The book was right on when it said that Quebec would run and rule the country one day. The majority of the employees working for the federal government in Ottawa are french. Liberal Trudeau. Pelltier and Joyal sure did pull off a coup in Ottawa just as the book said they would. Quebec is indeed running all the way to the bank of Quebec but yet the Anglophones in this country still act like all is cool no reason to become alarmed. The Anglophones don't even care or realize that they now have lost their country to the french. I guess that the french really did win the battle on the Plains of Abraham. 

[taxme]

3 hours ago, capricorn said:

Re the media. No surprise there. Canadians are so wrapped up in the US media coverage of illegal migrants they're blind to what's going on in their own country.

The question that I always keep asking myself is do Canadians really care about Canada at all? Personally, I don't see it nor think that the majority of Canadians give one hoot about what is going on in Canada today. We have well over 25000 illegal immigrants that have entered Canada illegally last and this year and there is no concern about it with them. But they sure do have a lot to say about the American immigration problem that is going on. As you said all they seem to be interested in what the American MSM is reporting about Trump and Trump is not even their President. Trudeau gets a free pass in this country with Canadians. It would appear as though we are all living in an it's all about me country.  

[capricorn]

Quote

“There is more Western Alienation right now in Alberta and Saskatchewan,” says Brad Wall, “than I have ever seen.”

Wall, the former Premier of Saskatchewan, is taking time out of his private life to discuss Justin Trudeau’s equalization move on my radio show. It’s a Friday night and like most Canadians, Wall would prefer to be kicking back. Instead he is fired up.

“Maybe it would have been hyperbole to say that a year and a half ago,” Wall said of claims that Trudeau is playing favourites. Now with the demise of Energy East, the killing of Northern Gateway, the special treatment of Energie Saguenay in Quebec and approval of a carbon spewing cement plant with no environmental assessment Wall said many in  the West now feel there are rules for Quebec and rules for the rest.

Like many, Wall believes Quebec is getting special treatment with this deal on equalization. The current formula favours Quebec and the three maritime provinces of New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and PEI.

The previous day the Trudeau Liberals announced that the equalization formula would be staying the same until 2024. That puts it not just beyond the 2019 election but beyond the election after that.

In essence, Trudeau and his team have made sure that as long as they are in government, Quebec will continue to get the bulk of the money in equalization while the other three are also rewarded handsomely. Vote Liberal and the money will keep flowing.

Equalization is mentioned in the budget a mere five times. Compare that to the word gender which is mentioned 359 times or innovation mentioned 197 times.

And yet in those five mentions, which discuss extending the program with increased finances, there is no mention that the formula must stay the same. It’s the same with the budget bill.

While Bill C-74 says it extends the fiscal plan and formula until 2024, premiers across the country had been expecting talks and negotiations on the formula in the coming year.

So while the Liberals will point to the budget plan and the bill, any reasonable person could be forgiven for thinking that this was merely extending payments and that the talks on the formula would still happen.

Current Saskatchewan Premier Scott Moe had just this week put forward a proposal on how he wanted to see the formula changed. He expected this to be a discussion at the summer meeting of the premiers.

 cont'd....

http://brianlilley.com/brad-wall-says-trudeau-playing-favourites-with-quebec-against-the-west/

When all is said and done, Trudeau's Liberals do what they want when they want, taxpayers and their representatives be damned. In order to be entitled to their entitlements, they must remain in power, whatever way they can. But...he has nice hair...and nice eyebrows.

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, capricorn said:

When all is said and done, Trudeau's Liberals do what they want when they want, taxpayers and their representatives be damned.

As usual Conservatives did absolutely nothing about adding more checks and balances to our governance when they had the chance.

And they won't do a damn thing next time they're in power too.

[Leon]

If the immigrants are illegal then they must be undocumented.

So we have no way of knowing how many there are.  Stop the rabble rousing.

[objectivist]

As a Quebec resident I assure you I am 100% opposed to transfer payments from the rest of Canada. I do not receive government payments, and I am not in a union. The transfer payments are keeping Quebec down, despite what you may think. They are killing enterprise, opportunity, and jobs. If Quebec can balance with equalization payments, they can balance without them. Normal Quebec people live a lower lifestyle, while the bureaucratic, union, and political classes are cleaning up. There are only 4 jurisdictions which are poorer than Quebec in North America. So I support Jason Kenney and anyone else 100% when they are opposed to 'equalization payments'. They should be cancelled immediately.

[capricorn]

Here we go. Trudeau belittling Ford in public after their first ever meeting since Ford's election as Premier of Ontario.

Quote

The new Ontario premier met the prime minister on home territory at Queen’s Park Thursday afternoon in a meeting that was described as “super-heated” by people who were there.

Even as the two men met, Ford’s office issued a press release saying Ottawa is “100 per cent” to blame for a housing crisis caused by migrants crossing the border illegally and should pay all the costs. A spokesman for the premier said the federal government has encouraged people to cross the border and the resultant “mess” should be cleared up by Ottawa.

Trudeau will be equally enthusiastic about using Ford as a political foil. He took 20 minutes after the meeting to think about his response before emerging to portray himself as the defender of a national vision, while presenting the new premier as an idiot in search of his own village.

“It didn’t seem to me the premier was quite as aware of our obligations … as he might have been. I spent a bit of time explaining how our asylum-seeking system works,” he said, as if he were a tomcat spraying pheromones.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/john-ivison-the-battle-of-queens-park-ford-trudeau-meeting-turns-super-heated

Trudeau the twit shows a lack of diplomacy basically calling the Premier of Ontario an idiot with regard to his knowledge of the migrant file. A great first step to addressing federal/provincial affairs.

[SpankyMcFarland]

NL is somehow still a have province despite being well on course for bankruptcy. 

[cannuck]

On 6/22/2018 at 11:08 AM, capricorn said:

http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/quebec-invests-50m-to-offer-breakfast-at-schools-in-low-income-areas

I'm all for such initiatives that benefit kids. But isn't it remarkable that a have-not province is able to afford such programs. By all signs, Quebec is doing very well financially, yet they'll continue to reap billions annually from the federal treasury. I'm not so sure Alberta could afford this at the moment due to their economic woes, caused by those who won't let Alberta get their oil to market.

In the early days of the Canadian Taxpayer's Federation it was thought that taking a good look at Quebec under transfer payment terms would be good for business.   Reality was (then) that they did not really receive out of proportion at all.   It got fairly complicated, but once it was examined as to how much federal SPENDING landed in PQ, the truth finally revealed itself.  The handouts were (and I imagine still are) staggering.   Before and since, working in several countries, I learned that pretty much the primary directive for every government department is to steer as much potential business to Quebec as possible.  This means literally plucking opportunities identified and developed by the ROC and sticking them without bid into la Belle Province.  I was so bothered by that, at one point I took the Minister of Everything (McKnight at the time) aside and started to tell him what I had seen in many countries.  He simply informed me in a manner-of-fact way "what do you think we HAVE all of those people for?  It is to pander to Quebec" (paraphrasing).  That was the day I realized that partisan politics is not the solution to our problems, it is the cause.

Edited July 22, 2018 by cannuck

[SpankyMcFarland]

Isn’t that the Harper equalization formula, then, presumably discussed at the time with the now livid Mr. Kenney? 

[Benz]

As a Quebec sovereignist, I do not like the equalization for several reasons. The principle or the idea is ok, but the way it is applied is not.

I am ok with the federal doing the administration of it, but the federal SHOULD NOT decide how the equalization works. The provinces should decide between themselves what are the rules and how it should work. Once they agree, they mandate the federal to manage. Obviously, all provinces should agree. The actual system gives the power to the federal to change the equalization to whatever it wants and make it suit its electoral decision for its own interests, at the expense of few provinces. That is dead wrong.

Some are whinning that Quebec gets more because of their social programs. Listen carefully, that is YOUR problem. Quebec will not give up their programs because you do not want to give any in your province. It is your call. You are not happy with the system, be my guest and let's change it. I am all in. You do not want to touch that? then stop whinning.

Canadian equalization is also a smoke screen federalist strategy to make Quebec looks like a loser that need the others. But although we get money from the equalization program, we lose money in many other federal programs where we do not get anything. Overall, we are not milking the system like the equalization shows. For several years, even if the equalization was giving us back money, we were losing overall. Now that the gas price is very high, I guess we get more than we contribute. It's difficult to say because we need to compute the other federal probrams in the balance.

I say if we are not capable to get along with a fair equalization program, then let's stop it. But then, it will become more obvious for Quebec how much we lose in this federalism. Why do you think so many federalist, even in english canada, want to keep it in place? Yes it is to pander Quebec. But who really win?

The provinces need to be more mature and play in bigger role in the federation. But the good old "all-gainst-Quebec" prevails and they end up giving a white card to the federal and here we go again... the whinners are blaming Quebec for that. Pathetic!

 

 

[taxme]

On 7/6/2018 at 3:45 AM, capricorn said:

Here we go. Trudeau belittling Ford in public after their first ever meeting since Ford's election as Premier of Ontario.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/john-ivison-the-battle-of-queens-park-ford-trudeau-meeting-turns-super-heated

Trudeau the twit shows a lack of diplomacy basically calling the Premier of Ontario an idiot with regard to his knowledge of the migrant file. A great first step to addressing federal/provincial affairs.

Or a great step towards dumping this fool of a prime mistake of yours in the next election. The kid has another year to dump more criminal illegals into Canada so get ready for more to come and more tax dollars to be blown on criminal illegals. These illegals are criminals but yet no doubt many will get to stay in Canada with a criminal record already on their file. Ford needs to belittle the twit rather than the twit being allowed to belittle Ford. At least Ford is talking about the refugee crisis while  the twit is off on another holiday somewhere. While Canada burns this twit has more matches to do even more burning of Canada. This fool has to go. 

[taxme]

On 7/18/2018 at 6:02 PM, SpankyMcFarland said:

NL is somehow still a have province despite being well on course for bankruptcy. 

Newfies were doing just fine in the past until the federal government made life miserable for them. Instead of leaving them be the feds got involved in their every day affairs and has just about bankrupted Newfoundlanders. They were great capitalists until the feds got in their faces and made life difficult for them to live and get by. If Newfoundland were to separate tomorrow, as their are many Newfies who want this, they would be a lot better off to leave and be on their own just like Western Canada would be better off today w/o Quebec and Ontario running and ruining our Western way of life and culture and traditions. The West does not need the rest of stinkin' Eastern Canada. They keep sucking Western Canada dry.  

[taxme]

28 minutes ago, Benz said:

As a Quebec sovereignist, I do not like the equalization for several reasons. The principle or the idea is ok, but the way it is applied is not.

I am ok with the federal doing the administration of it, but the federal SHOULD NOT decide how the equalization works. The provinces should decide between themselves what are the rules and how it should work. Once they agree, they mandate the federal to manage. Obviously, all provinces should agree. The actual system gives the power to the federal to change the equalization to whatever it wants and make it suit its electoral decision for its own interests, at the expense of few provinces. That is dead wrong.

Some are whinning that Quebec gets more because of their social programs. Listen carefully, that is YOUR problem. Quebec will not give up their programs because you do not want to give any in your province. It is your call. You are not happy with the system, be my guest and let's change it. I am all in. You do not want to touch that? then stop whinning.

Canadian equalization is also a smoke screen federalist strategy to make Quebec looks like a loser that need the others. But although we get money from the equalization program, we lose money in many other federal programs where we do not get anything. Overall, we are not milking the system like the equalization shows. For several years, even if the equalization was giving us back money, we were losing overall. Now that the gas price is very high, I guess we get more than we contribute. It's difficult to say because we need to compute the other federal probrams in the balance.

I say if we are not capable to get along with a fair equalization program, then let's stop it. But then, it will become more obvious for Quebec how much we lose in this federalism. Why do you think so many federalist, even in english canada, want to keep it in place? Yes it is to pander Quebec. But who really win?

The provinces need to be more mature and play in bigger role in the federation. But the good old "all-gainst-Quebec" prevails and they end up giving a white card to the federal and here we go again... the whinners are blaming Quebec for that. Pathetic!

 

 

Talk to Alberta about how that french man from Quebec called Pierre Trudeau who screwed around with Alberta in the past with it's money from it's oil. That francophone stole money from the people of Ontario and no doubt gave most of it to Quebec. If there is any province in Canada that should separate from the east it is Alberta. But what are Albertan's waiting for is beyond me. They could be all rich by now if they had gone along with Doug Christie who fought for decades for the West to separate from Canada. And all he got from most westerners at the time was scorn and mocked. But I guess that the people in Western Canada should just quit with their whining and crying about how hard they are being done by when they refuse to try and do anything about it. The francophones will always rule and run Canada and even laugh at the rest of Canada because it would appear as though the Anglophones love it that way and want more of it. Some people's kids.  

[Argus]

21 hours ago, Benz said:

As a Quebec sovereignist, I do not like the equalization for several reasons. The principle or the idea is ok, but the way it is applied is not.

Agreed. Quebec gets far too much.

21 hours ago, Benz said:

Some are whinning that Quebec gets more because of their social programs. Listen carefully, that is YOUR problem. Quebec will not give up their programs because you do not want to give any in your province. It is your call. You are not happy with the system, be my guest and let's change it. I am all in. You do not want to touch that? then stop whinning.

I am all for changing it. I am all for saying if province A develops its resources, say oil, while province B turns up its nose and refuses to develop those resources, then the money province A gets should not be included in considering its income. Quebec's transfer payments have tripled since 2003 because Quebec has figured out how to game the system. It spend a lot on social programs, raises taxes for that purpose, and this in turn causes its transfer payments to rise. This leaves other provinces paying Quebec so Quebec can have better social programs than they do. Which is preposterous.

If Quebec wants generous social programs it should pay for them or leave Canada. I am fine with either.