Trump-Trudeau Fall-Out

Michael Hardner · June 11, 2018

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

2) Yes, I like facts...they help to wash away obvious bias. It is a fact that Trump matters more than Trudeau.

2) Yes, I have heard that before. That's why it looks so low when Trump picks a fight with the tiniest G7 country... because they are being strong-armed by Russia.

bush_cheney2004 · June 11, 2018

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

2) Yes, I have heard that before. That's why it looks so low when Trump picks a fight with the tiniest G7 country... because they are being strong-armed by Russia.

A history lesson is appropriate here....Canada would not even be in the G7 were it not for another U.S. president (Gerald Ford). France DID NOT want Canada admitted to the G6.

bush_cheney2004 · June 11, 2018

This guy gets it...Trudeau and his minions do not:

Quote

Mr. Trudeau’s response so far has appeared to be to hunker down and hope that Americans eventually vote in a more global-minded president and Congress. When Ottawa announced it intended to retaliate, Mr. Trudeau expressed his hope that “at some point” the common sense of Americans would prevail – presumably undoing the Trump administration’s aggressive trade stance.

Don’t bet on it. Mr. Ciuriak, a former deputy chief economist at the department of Global Affairs, argues that the Trump administration’s trade policy is less of an aberration from traditional U.S. policy than many people think. For decades now, the United States has used its position as the world’s sole “hyper power” to achieve its geopolitical objectives, he says. Mr. Trump is merely extending the muscular use of national security as a rationale to get what it wants on trade.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-canada-in-the-crosshairs-as-trump-weaponizes-uncertainty-as-part-of/#c-image-0

Michael Hardner · June 11, 2018

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

A history lesson is appropriate here....Canada would not even be in the G7 were it not for another U.S. president (Gerald Ford). France DID NOT want Canada admitted to the G6.

I for one knew that but the board thanks you. Membership has its privileges, though, such as telling Trump that his Russian bosses can't get in.

bush_cheney2004 · June 11, 2018

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

I for one knew that but the board thanks you. Membership has its privileges, though, such as telling Trump that his Russian bosses can't get in.

Right, and history tells us that it was another G6 nation, France, that expressly and explicitly did not want Canada in the club.

Is that "petulant" ?

Michael Hardner · June 11, 2018

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Is that "petulant" ?

I don't know enough history around their reasons for excluding us so my first reaction is not. But that was a different era also. I am grateful that the US started the G7, and look forward to future cooperation.

bush_cheney2004 · June 11, 2018

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

I don't know enough history around their reasons for excluding us so my first reaction is not. But that was a different era also. I am grateful that the US started the G7, and look forward to future cooperation.

Ohhhhhh...it was a different era...well then, why didn't you say so !!!

In that case we can ignore all history and precedence, right ? Including comparisons to Trump today.

Michael Hardner · June 11, 2018

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

In that case we can ignore all history and precedence, right ? Including comparisons to Trump today.

I don't know that there any comparisons to Trump today. Certainly comparing a diplomatic spat from 40+ years ago is a Pommes et Oranges comparison

bush_cheney2004 · June 11, 2018

6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I don't know that there any comparisons to Trump today. Certainly comparing a diplomatic spat from 40+ years ago is a Pommes et Oranges comparison

Really ? President Trump has not been compared to previous presidential behaviour and decorum ?

No matter....I understand that ignoring history can be quite advantageous depending on the issue.

Again, Trump is just being Trump, just as Obama was Obama, and Bush was Bush, and Clinton was Clinton, and the other Bush was Bush, and Reagan was Reagan, and Carter was Carter, and Ford was Ford, and Nixon was Nixon, and LBJ was LBJ, and...well...I think you get the idea.

Nothing special or unusual about a U.S. president calling out a Canadian prime minister....Trump has certainly received far more from other world leaders.

Edited June 11, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

Centerpiece · June 11, 2018

As with anything that requires some thinking, Trudeau is coming up short again. When you cut through all the BS, we have a Prime Minister who can do nothing but repeat scripted lines. Jean Chretien was a street fighter - he might have found a way to get out ahead of Trump and find out what he really wanted for his end game - securely and privately one-on-one. Same with Stephen Harper - but with more of a substantial/strategic view. Both these former PMs would have been better prepared and pro-active - because they were smart enough to read people and understand the issues. In the end, they might have hit a wall - but they would have both added a lot of value to the process. Trudeau is incapable of adding any.

bush_cheney2004 · June 11, 2018

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

I don't know enough history around their reasons for excluding us so my first reaction is not.

Okay, but here is what happened, and France's reasons were not only spiteful (Giscard hated Pierre Trudeau...who didn't, right ?), but France considered Canada to be only an economic and political appendage of the United States...what irony, eh !?

Quote

“Not only did Giscard intensely dislike the Canadian prime minister, but the French argued that Canada was merely an economic appendage of the United States, and that therefore separate representation was unnecessary. Moreover, Paris said, if Canada were invited, Belgium and the Netherlands would then have a claim, making the summit too large.” (Robert Bothwell / Alliance and Illusion: Canada and the World, 1945-1984)

...External Affairs Minister Allan MacEachen fulminated in public, denouncing the French, but Canadian diplomats were quick to comment, in private, that the minister could not have meant what he said … Canadian protests were met with genial and unyielding indifference from the French.

http://www.cpac.ca/en/record-canada-joins-g6/

Fast forward to today...what was old is new again. The world will survive.

Edited June 11, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

Argus · June 11, 2018

This is a very good explanation of why Trump's whining about dairy subsidies is so much bullshit. Turns out the US sends us twice as much dairy products as we send them.

U.S. producers, who also benefit from subsidies and tariffs, exported about C$296 million ($227 million) in dairy goods to Canada last year, Statistics Canada data show. Canadian producers sold C$148.1 million in milk products in the opposite direction, a 2-to-1 U.S. trade surplus. It’s a trade gap the Canadian ambassador to Washington, David MacNaughton, frequently cites. “Overall, the U.S. is more restrictive,” said Peter Clark, a trade consultant and president of Ottawa-based Grey, Clark Shih & Associates, who has done research for the Dairy Farmers of Canada.

Pierre Lampron, who heads the Canadian dairy farmer lobby group, said the U.S. market is vulnerable to milk surpluses and price crashes. “President Trump isn’t going after the system of supply management as much as looking to dump surplus subsidized U.S. dairy products on the Canadian market,” Lampron said. Trudeau, meanwhile, has pledged to defend supply management.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-11/how-canada-s-sacred-cows-and-270-tariffs-set-trump-off-at-g-7

Argus · June 11, 2018

3 hours ago, WIP said:

Having a thread started by a doctrinaire conservative that reposts US conservative propaganda about this moral and intellectual failure- Donald Trump tells me that Canadian conservatives have no real loyalty to Canada.

So let me see if I can grasp your "logic" here. Federal Tory leader Andrew Scheer expresses his support for Trudeau. Newly elected PC Doug Ford of Ontario expresses his support of Trudeau in this. Alberta's conservative leader Jason Kennie expresses his support for Trudeau on this. But because someone on a small web bulletin board supports trump you use this to indict all conservatives as having no loyalty to Canada. Have I got that right?

Argus · June 11, 2018

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

I don't know

Why you keep engaging with trolls.

eyeball · June 11, 2018

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Quite to the contrary, President Trump will be doing a very presidential thing in a few hours, just as his predecessors have done.

Yes, sticking his tongue up dictators ass.

So presidential. You must be bursting with pride.

bush_cheney2004 · June 11, 2018

8 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Yes, sticking his tongue up dictators ass.

So presidential. You must be bursting with pride.

Yes....Canada calls it "close integration of North American economies", and fears it is at risk because of Trump.

Keep sticking....

-1=e^ipi · June 11, 2018

2 hours ago, Argus said:

This is a very good explanation of why Trump's whining about dairy subsidies is so much bullshit. Turns out the US sends us twice as much dairy products as we send them.

Of course we do, because we have an awful supply management system that restricts supply, in addition to 300% tariffs.

So basically, you think that the awful supply management system justifies itself...

-1=e^ipi · June 11, 2018

All hail the all powerful dairy cartel!!!!

We must at all costs protect the dairy cartel, not matter how severe of a trade war it causes. Because, as well all know, having poor people suffer from having to pay twice as much for eggs, milk and poultry is just part of Canadian values!

GostHacked · June 11, 2018

4 hours ago, betsy said:

No, he didn't say that!

here, watch the first 3 minutes....he explained!

He said that Trump signed the communique - Trump and Trudeau were close to reaching a Nafta deal in their bilateral meeting ....and then, Trudeau went on to say what he did!

Trump never had any intentions of negotiating NAFTA. Trudeau was right to tell Trump to pound sand.

GostHacked · June 11, 2018

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Yes....Canada calls it "close integration of North American economies", and fears it is at risk because of Trump.

Keep sticking....

The US is no better than the Brits being large proponents of a trade agreement then years later pulling out. The UK wanted The EU and is now doing a Brexit. And the USA was one of the 3 nations that enacted NAFTA and now they pull out.

But your economy is closer tied to China than anything else. OH and the Saudis own a good chunk of influence in the USA.. One day .. ONE day , Americans will have a say in their own government. But it's not today!

GostHacked · June 11, 2018

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Yes, sticking his tongue up dictators ass.

So presidential. You must be bursting with pride.

Interesting, that this is the level of discord from 'civil' people, or what we call......

2 hours ago, Argus said:

Why you keep engaging with trolls.

Ahahahah , yep,,, THIS !!!!

Michael Hardner · June 12, 2018

3 hours ago, GostHacked said:

Trump never had any intentions of negotiating NAFTA. Trudeau was right to tell Trump to pound sand.

Of course not. The idea that they were on the verge of an agreement is absurd. When we last checked in Canada was announcing, then confirming retaliatory measures.

Michael Hardner · June 12, 2018

3 hours ago, GostHacked said:

Trump never had any intentions of negotiating NAFTA. Trudeau was right to tell Trump to pound sand.

Could we maybe see the limit of how much people cheer for Trump when he pushes for 100,000 layoffs in Ontario ?

bush_cheney2004 · June 12, 2018

Well, look at the bright side...there is a rising spark of nationalism in Trudeau's "post-national state" of Canada, but not because of Trudeau...because of...Trump.

WIP · June 12, 2018

13 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Because "loyal Canadians" would never post liberal / progressive propaganda, manifestos from American universities like Cal Berkely or Harvard, American books, American print media, American social media, or American local and state governments. Nope...that would never happen here from "loyal Canadians".

The difference is Canadian liberals, social democrats, socialists etc. don't define their political ideology through being American and expanding trade ties and US ownership of our economy! Canada's conservatives are in a jam now, because Trump and their rhetorical leaders are directly attacking this country, and they've gone quiet all of a sudden. Sun Media newspapers and other US lapdogs are trying to play down the problem as a "Trade Tiff." They're in a panic because they don't have a way to define being conservative without their usual US reference point.