SpankyMcFarland Posted May 26, 2018 Report Share Posted May 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Centerpiece said: The timeliness, if not quality of Healthcare is suffering right across Canada......and yet we have parties that want to offer "free" Pharmacare and Dental Care - and still no money to pay for either. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. I mean, who WOULDN'T want these things - but only when we can afford to pay for them. Socialist programs have to be paid for with Capitalist dollars - both are needed but they have to work in a symbiotic relationship - not an antagonistic one. Conservative and traditional Liberal parties get it. The NDP don't understand that at all - and the Trudeau/Wynne Liberals are simply an abomination. The weird thing is that the UK NHS can afford pharmacare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted May 26, 2018 Report Share Posted May 26, 2018 On 5/24/2018 at 1:29 PM, WIP said: And they're not the ones who lobby Ottawa and Queen's Park and relieve themselves of their tax burdens through creative bookkeeping and foreign tax shelters that allow capital to flow back and forth, while leaving someone else to pay for the costs of managing government, military and domestic obligations every civilized society has to deal with. So once again, I aim high before I fire/not low and shoot the ones with no power over me and may require assistance from the dwindling social safety net that's leaving more and more to fall through the cracks even without having US-style conservative government....yet! I have no idea what any of that drivel even means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted May 26, 2018 Report Share Posted May 26, 2018 On 5/25/2018 at 6:33 AM, Michael Hardner said: Yes, as they have almost 90% of all the revenue. It's a progressive tax, right. Government works to ensure that the top investors and earners do well, and makes policies to allow them, for example, to bring in minimum wage workers to overseas to make their businesses profitable. Anyway, I have refuted Auguste's point. Well, no you haven't. I've refuted your refutation. One third of tax filers paid zero income taxes. That was what he said, and that is what both cites have supported. It's not an 'old wives tale'. And we weren't discussing whether taxes are progressive or not, or the wisdom of a progressive tax, nor how progressive a tax ought to be, but the impact on voters of paying little or no taxes. Peripherally, the idea that the 'rich' should pay 'just a little more' as if they haven't already been paying for almost everything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted May 26, 2018 Report Share Posted May 26, 2018 5 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said: The weird thing is that the UK NHS can afford pharmacare. Divide it into a dozen entirely different systems and burden it with a mass of red tape and bureaucracy and see if it still can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 26, 2018 Report Share Posted May 26, 2018 15 minutes ago, Argus said: Well, no you haven't. I've refuted your refutation. One third of tax filers paid zero income taxes. That was what he said, and that is what both cites have supported. It's not an 'old wives tale'. My cite didn't support that - it said *some members* of families in the bottom 20% ... I point out progressiveness because those with the top 90% of revenue pay the top 95% of taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted May 27, 2018 Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: My cite didn't support that - it said *some members* of families in the bottom 20% ... You're reading into it what you choose to. Parsing that statement it sure does say 'some members' of families in the bottom 20% pay no taxes. But realistically, that could be 99%. Given the federal personal exemption amount is about $11,000 and the Ontario provincial personal exemption is another $10,000 or so, it's hard to imagine anyone in the bottom 20% paying any tax here. In the Atlantic provinces I understand the provinces have much lower exemptions so you might get some paying provincial income tax there.. Plus, you're ignoring that a lot of people NOT in the bottom 20% also pay no taxes due to various tax breaks, such as those for a non-working spouse and for children. Quote I point out progressiveness because those with the top 90% of revenue pay the top 95% of taxes. That's mighty white of you. Do you point out that 5% of people are responsible for 42% of income taxes? And in any event, you continue to ignore the fact the discussion is on how such income tax responsibilities or lack thereof will inevitably impact voter intentions. Edited May 27, 2018 by Argus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrypenguin Posted May 27, 2018 Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 (edited) And then there's this. 35 cents/liter on gasoline. FFS, at least it punishes everyone equally. Edited May 27, 2018 by angrypenguin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 27, 2018 Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Argus said: But realistically, that could be 99%. And how does 99% of 20% get us above 30% ? I'm starting to spring a brain leak... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) Quote Liberal Leader Kathleen Wynne is putting the spotlight on NDP rival Andrea Horwath for vowing never to use back-to-work legislation if the surging New Democrats are elected June 7. “Their plan is not workable and people need to examine that,” Wynne said Wednesday in Toronto before flying north to shore up Liberal ridings in Sudbury and Thunder Bay with two weeks until voting day. https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/05/23/horwath-and-wynne-trade-shots-over-labour-policy.html Horvath is against back-to-work legislations. I have to agree with Wynne. It's Horvath's ideology as a socialist, that's the driving force. Horvath's going to put Ontarians at the mercy of the Union(s). If we don't pay up what's demanded (no matter how ridiculous), and no settlement is reached - garbage could pile up, there'll be no transporation, or nurses and PSWs, or daycare works, teachers, etc.., How can she be so sure that she'll never have the need to use it? Does that sound like she's sensible? Edited May 28, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 A vote for the NDP is a vote for the liberals. We all need to vote doug if you like him or not. I am sick and tired of listening to well oiled politicians selling snake oil.You think people flowing across our borders is getting out of control, wait till we are a sanctuary province. Time for a government that is about us, not people on thier way. Same as the feds, look after your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) With her big plans of more spending.....taxing corporations (who'll be the ones to shoulder all the spending she's planning, she said - how many businesses will move out of Ontario?)....and her stance on back-to-legislation which will put us at the mercy of the union..... .........Horvath is our worst nightmare! Edited May 28, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, PIK said: A vote for the NDP is a vote for the liberals. We all need to vote doug if you like him or not. I am sick and tired of listening to well oiled politicians selling snake oil.You think people flowing across our borders is getting out of control, wait till we are a sanctuary province. Time for a government that is about us, not people on thier way. Same as the feds, look after your own. They'll end up supporting each other - they're basically the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 They say Amazon plans to build a warehouse in Ottawa. However......there's no confirmation from Amazon. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/amazon-ottawa-warehouse-mps-1.4677314 Will Amazon come to Ottawa if Horvath wins??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 Doug Ford immediately responded and fired a woman MP for her anti-immigrant views. However, Horvath tries to defend her own MP who'd posted a Hitler meme, and who referred to our war veterans as a "slaughtering machine." http://torontosun.com/news/provincial/pcs-allege-anti-semitism-within-ndp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 On 5/26/2018 at 5:46 PM, Argus said: I have no idea what any of that drivel even means. Okay, it means that Canada is no different than any other capitalist nation: corporations and wealthy private interests are the main cost burden for taxpayers/ not the poor and destitute! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 2 hours ago, betsy said: https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/05/23/horwath-and-wynne-trade-shots-over-labour-policy.html Horvath is against back-to-work legislations. I have to agree with Wynne. It's Horvath's ideology as a socialist, that's the driving force. Horvath's going to put Ontarians at the mercy of the Union(s). If we don't pay up what's demanded (no matter how ridiculous), and no settlement is reached - garbage could pile up, there'll be no transporation, or nurses and PSWs, or daycare works, teachers, etc.., How can she be so sure that she'll never have the need to use it? Does that sound like she's sensible? Conservatives keep bellyaching about public service unions having monopoly power to achieve their demands/ yet think nothing of the monopoly power of our privatized public assets and services! And why is the right so comfortable with police forces having unions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 1 hour ago, betsy said: They say Amazon plans to build a warehouse in Ottawa. However......there's no confirmation from Amazon. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/amazon-ottawa-warehouse-mps-1.4677314 Will Amazon come to Ottawa if Horvath wins??? Let's hope not! Amazon is now the worst of the corporate welfare bums who run miserable slave-like sweatshops that pay workers so low they qualify for public benefits. And the icing on the cake is....like Walmart, Costco., and a host of small, low-wage auto parts suppliers, they make cities bid against each other...with low...sometime NO tax guarantees, before they'll allow the local officials the privilege of having a facility with their sign on the front of the building! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, WIP said: Conservatives keep bellyaching about public service unions having monopoly power to achieve their demands/ yet think nothing of the monopoly power of our privatized public assets and services! And why is the right so comfortable with police forces having unions? That's irrelevant! Without back-to-work legislation, it means the garbage can pile up til the cows come home! In other words, the union can practice extortion! That's the gist of it: you give what we want, or else..... Horvath is handing Ontarians to the union! Edited May 28, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, WIP said: Let's hope not! Amazon is now the worst of the corporate welfare bums who run miserable slave-like sweatshops that pay workers so low they qualify for public benefits. And the icing on the cake is....like Walmart, Costco., and a host of small, low-wage auto parts suppliers, they make cities bid against each other...with low...sometime NO tax guarantees, before they'll allow the local officials the privilege of having a facility with their sign on the front of the building! What's a "low" pay in Canada? Minimum wage? Edited May 28, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrypenguin Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 20 minutes ago, WIP said: Let's hope not! Amazon is now the worst of the corporate welfare bums who run miserable slave-like sweatshops that pay workers so low they qualify for public benefits. And the icing on the cake is....like Walmart, Costco., and a host of small, low-wage auto parts suppliers, they make cities bid against each other...with low...sometime NO tax guarantees, before they'll allow the local officials the privilege of having a facility with their sign on the front of the building! So you'd rather those people not have jobs and/or benefits? Your logic is illogical to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, betsy said: What's a "low" pay in Canada? Minimum wage? Sometimes there's no pay at all, take interns for example. Our economy would probably collapse without volunteers that are willing to work for nothing. The expectation of free labour in a society that places a moral imperative on people to carry their own weight is scandalously hypocritical when you really get down to it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrypenguin Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, eyeball said: Sometimes there's no pay at all, take interns for example. Our economy would probably collapse without volunteers that are willing to work for nothing. The expectation of free labour in a society that places a moral imperative on people to carry their own weight is scandalously hypocritical when you really get down to it. Most internships are funded by the federal government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, angrypenguin said: So you'd rather those people not have jobs and/or benefits? Your logic is illogical to me. Amazon is a global corporate monopoly now that not even the US Government is able to control. But I suppose that's free enterprize according to all the koolaid drinkers out there! A corporation that pays so little in taxes and overhead costs that it's even driving Walmart out of business is the new hero of the right! Or maybe it's the excitement of watching their $120 billion owner and richest man in the world now- Jeff Bezos march steadily along on his way to becoming the world's first trillionaire! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrypenguin Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, WIP said: Amazon is a global corporate monopoly now that not even the US Government is able to control. But I suppose that's free enterprize according to all the koolaid drinkers out there! A corporation that pays so little in taxes and overhead costs that it's even driving Walmart out of business is the new hero of the right! Or maybe it's the excitement of watching their $120 billion owner and richest man in the world now- Jeff Bezos march steadily along on his way to becoming the world's first trillionaire! Amazon barely makes ANY profit, so why are you going on and on about taxes? You do know how taxation works, right? Edited May 28, 2018 by angrypenguin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 18 minutes ago, angrypenguin said: Most internships are funded by the federal government. Sounds like you're apologizing for the free loader companies that benefit from your tax dollars. Seems rather incongruous after reading your loathing for taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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