Doug Ford - leader of Ontario PCs

[taxme]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

I don't think EITHER of them are capable of being more than tv show hosts. I'm not relying on Ford to come up with any big ideas.

Wynne has pretty much bankrupted Ontario. She goes into a mosque and is pretty much told to go sit in the back of the room. You are a woman and you are a nothing.

Horwath will make Ontario a sanctuary city which of course means more criminal illegals sucking off of the taxpayer's tax dollars of that province. 

Ford cannot be any worse than those two other politically correct multicultural losers. Ontario needs a FORD more than ever now. 

There is no question as to who the voters of Ontario need to vote for unless you are a bit loose in the head. 

[angrypenguin]

15 minutes ago, taxme said:

Wynne has pretty much bankrupted Ontario. She goes into a mosque and is pretty much told to go sit in the back of the room. You are a woman and you are a nothing.

Horwath will make Ontario a sanctuary city which of course means more criminal illegals sucking off of the taxpayer's tax dollars of that province. 

Ford cannot be any worse than those two other politically correct multicultural losers. Ontario needs a FORD more than ever now. 

There is no question as to who the voters of Ontario need to vote for unless you are a bit loose in the head. 

A BIT?!

[Michael Hardner]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/brown-ford-pc-ontario-1.4681338

Patrick Brown is saying that Doug has blown the biggest lead ever.  With friends like that who needs an enemy ?  If Doug loses to the NDP that will be about the funniest day in politics ever...

[The Progressive Conservatives] have snatched defeat out of the jaws of victory before, but never with a lead this big.] 

[Argus]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) Yes when you go into 'subjective' mode, I put you on 'mute' as you are making no effort to speak in terms that others can relate to or discuss with.  Enjoy your soapbox but it's not conductive to any kind of response.

Reality offends you? You can call it 'subjective' mode or whatever other elitist intellectual bullshit you choose. It's the reality of things which have been evident in damn near every election and in every party platform through the decades. The current Ontario election is a case in point, where the Libs and NDP have fought over who can spend the most money and 'help' the most people. And neither is much concerned with the costs, any more than Trudeau or Jagmeet Singh are  federally.

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

2) So why have taxes at all according to that logic ?

This is not my logic. This is universally understood economics. Why do we have taxes is not a legitimate question. It's a smarmy sneering sort of question you don't even need an answer to.

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

3) More than Ford's is though.

So they write more fairy tales than he does? I'm supposed to give them credit for that? 

[Argus]

15 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/brown-ford-pc-ontario-1.4681338

Patrick Brown is saying that Doug has blown the biggest lead ever.  With friends like that who needs an enemy ?  If Doug loses to the NDP that will be about the funniest day in politics ever...

I disagree with him. Ford hasn't done anything to snatch defeat from victory. It is the party which allowed him to take leadership which did that. Those who switched away from the Tories didn't do so because of anything Ford has done since becoming elected leader. They switched because it's Doug Ford. In fact, Ford has done his best to pretend he isn't even leading the PC party by joining the other two parties in vote buying. The only people he's pissed off with that are conservatives like me.

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, Argus said:

1) Reality offends you? You can call it 'subjective' mode or whatever other elitist intellectual bullshit you choose. It's the reality of things which have been evident in damn near every election and in every party platform through the decades.

2) This is not my logic. This is universally understood economics. Why do we have taxes is not a legitimate question. It's a smarmy sneering sort of question you don't even need an answer to.

3) So they write more fairy tales than he does? I'm supposed to give them credit for that? 

1)  It's your perspective, not my reality.  "Subjective" is a pretty basic word, not intellectual in the least.  If I posted paragraphs about the greed of the "right" would you soak up every word and beg for more ?  No, of course not.  I am nice enough to spare you from dull partisan blather.

2) "the more you tax people the more you damage the economy," is universally understood economics ?   You are projecting your smarmy sneeriness onto me as you are the one who started with the hyperbolic statement.

3) No.  We are saying that even through no party is putting forward an basic and workable plan we should bet on the PCs because... Mike Harris.

[Michael Hardner]

5 minutes ago, Argus said:

1) I disagree with him. Ford hasn't done anything to snatch defeat from victory. It is the party which allowed him to take leadership which did that.

2) The only people he's pissed off with that are conservatives like me.

1) I suppose that is true.

2) And an NDP minority government is everybody's best chance for a redo.  

[Argus]

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1)  It's your perspective, not my reality.  "Subjective" is a pretty basic word, not intellectual in the least.  If I posted paragraphs about the greed of the "right" would you soak up every word and beg for more ?  No, of course not.  I am nice enough to spare you from dull partisan blather.

Saying that the Left's platforms and ideology is built around helping people is a partisan attack? Seriously? Stating the obvious, that they place much more emphasis on this than on reigning in budgets and spending is a partisan attack? If you disagree with what I've written suppose you tell me what you believe their primary ideological/political goals have been for the last fifty years.

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

2) "the more you tax people the more you damage the economy," is universally understood economics ? 

Yes. You will find no economists who isn't an ideological zealot of the far left who is going to tell you that higher taxes is good for the economy.  Our mixed economy is a balance between Capitalism, which creates wealth, and Socialism which redistributes it and provides various social services to those who can't afford it. But the more Socialism you have the higher the taxes have to be, which act as a brake on the economy.

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

3) No.  We are saying that even through no party is putting forward an basic and workable plan we should bet on the PCs because... Mike Harris.

No, I'm saying we should bet on the PCs because it is in their political culture to be far more fixated and concerned about balancing budgets and keeping the size of government down than it is in the political cultures of the NDP or Liberals. Those who are PC party members in particular are far and away more concerned about such things than those who are members of the other political parties.

[BubberMiley]

7 hours ago, Centerpiece said:

 The NDP ideology should tell you all you need to know. 

 

How about the NDP track record for governing in Canada? That would tell you they tend to be pragmatic and centrist when in power. In Manitoba, we've gone from Tories to NDP and back to Tories. Both parties seem to aim for the mushy middle and, for the most part, they don't seem radically different from one another.

[Michael Hardner]

6 minutes ago, Argus said:

1)  You will find no economists who isn't an ideological zealot of the far left who is going to tell you that higher taxes is good for the economy. 

 2) Those who are PC party members in particular are far and away more concerned about such things than those who are members of the other political parties.

 1) Moving the goalpost.  "Taxes damage the economy" vs. "High taxes aren't good"

 2) It's a culture thing, again. 

[Centerpiece]

6 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

How about the NDP track record for governing in Canada? That would tell you they tend to be pragmatic and centrist when in power. In Manitoba, we've gone from Tories to NDP and back to Tories. Both parties seem to aim for the mushy middle and, for the most part, they don't seem radically different from one another.

If you're from Manitoba, you should know the answer. There is virtually no Liberal presence in your province - and the NDP has filled that Centrist/Left gap.  For all intents and purposes they are a traditional Liberal party. As you said, they are pragmatic - not at all like the far left, socialist Ontario NDP - or the nouveau-Left Liberals. Rachel Notley? Similar to Manitoba, there is virtually no Liberal presence so she can tack somewhat near the center. John Horgan? Let's not go there. 

So really - there is no modern equivalent of what a far left NDP party would do to a province - or the country (other than the Bob Rae gang). And don't kid yourself - they are far Left. With Wynne's Liberals already having moved left of traditional Liberals, Horwath is clearly on the Leftist Ledge. It's not funny.

[H10]

8 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Actually, Obama kept the Bush tax cuts and stimulus spending in place, creating record deficits and debt.

Not that any of this has squat to do with a provincial election in Canada, but it is the Canadian way to gaze south for political ammunition.

And why do you think that is, how would that go over to remove republican tax cuts on the mega rich who finance the politicians?  Oh, I am sure the republicans would vote for it right?  It was the Republicans who blocked the necssary tax hikes on the elite and billionaire class, this is why Republican right wing ideology is totally destructive, once they destroy the nation, the damage cannot be undone.  You cannot undo firing 100,000 civil servants who won't be able to find jobs paying the same, and who will then have to sell their houses and have their entire lives destroyed because they chose to make a sacrifice and work for the nation.  The right wing plays dirty.

[H10]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/brown-ford-pc-ontario-1.4681338

Patrick Brown is saying that Doug has blown the biggest lead ever.  With friends like that who needs an enemy ?  If Doug loses to the NDP that will be about the funniest day in politics ever...

[The Progressive Conservatives] have snatched defeat out of the jaws of victory before, but never with a lead this big.] 

LOL, can't blame him, its like your wife ran off with a hotter, younger, richer man, and now that guy is losing his job, of course you'd take a jab at him.

[H10]

14 minutes ago, Centerpiece said:

If you're from Manitoba, you should know the answer. There is virtually no Liberal presence in your province - and the NDP has filled that Centrist/Left gap.  For all intents and purposes they are a traditional Liberal party. As you said, they are pragmatic - not at all like the far left, socialist Ontario NDP - or the nouveau-Left Liberals. Rachel Notley? Similar to Manitoba, there is virtually no Liberal presence so she can tack somewhat near the center. John Horgan? Let's not go there. 

So really - there is no modern equivalent of what a far left NDP party would do to a province - or the country (other than the Bob Rae gang). And don't kid yourself - they are far Left. With Wynne's Liberals already having moved left of traditional Liberals, Horwath is clearly on the Leftist Ledge. It's not funny.

But ONtario is a leftist province.  All of those conservative policies turned it that way.  When you pay working people crumbs, they become socialist not corporatist.

[bush_cheney2004]

13 minutes ago, H10 said:

And why do you think that is, how would that go over to remove republican tax cuts on the mega rich who finance the politicians?  Oh, I am sure the republicans would vote for it right? 

 

Democrats controlled the House and had a majority in the U.S. Senate, so Obama most certainly continued Bush era tax cuts and stimulus with or without Republicans.

Drawing parallels to the U.S. for Canadian federal/provincial elections is meaningless, and I can assure you that the Americans do not return the favour.

Edited May 29, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[bush_cheney2004]

10 minutes ago, H10 said:

But ONtario is a leftist province.  All of those conservative policies turned it that way.  When you pay working people crumbs, they become socialist not corporatist.

 

No, Ontario is a divided province, along many economic and political lines.  

[angrypenguin]

Can we please keep US politics out of this thread?

[H10]

3 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

No, Ontario is a divided province, along many economic and political lines.  

No, it isn't because the conservatives have never been more than 40% of the vote.  What you have are 60-65% of the voters who always are lft wing, and have finally gotten smart enough to coalesce around 1 left wing party.

[bush_cheney2004]

3 hours ago, angrypenguin said:

Can we please keep US politics out of this thread?

 

Great idea...but it is impossible for some to do that.   

US politics is weaponized in Canada, even when it shouldn't be.

[OftenWrong]

22 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I don’t think Ford supporters can see how repulsive he is to many other voters. He’s that ignorant loudmouth in the bar who won’t shut up. The thought of having to listen to him for an extended period of years is too awful to contemplate. 

Can you give specific examples where says something repulsive?

[Michael Hardner]

8 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Can you give specific examples where says something repulsive?

There are right of centre people who say that they can't stand the sound of Wynne speaking.  I suspect this is like that.  So I am saying: no specific example.

[OftenWrong]

19 hours ago, Argus said:

I don't think EITHER of them are capable of being more than tv show hosts. I'm not relying on Ford to come up with any big ideas.

Still, there's little doubt that the situation we re entering in is utterly, utterly perilous. At this point I blame the fools who dumped Patrick Brown at the last possible moment, which in my thinking had to be politically motivated. They knew the PC leader would be the next premier of Ontario.

[Michael Hardner]

 

 

This story (click for the full thread) illustrates why Doug is falling in the polls.  His support is wide, but only about an inch thick.  The PC brand is built on competence, which is why he was a terrible choice.  He doesn't convey seriousness - with 'Buck a Beer' high on the priority list.  I am hoping the PCs do better next time around and the best hope if for their fifth (!) loss in a row.

[WIP]

On 5/28/2018 at 12:47 PM, Michael Hardner said:

I think you didn't pick up on the irony.

The people who love Doug aren't prioritizing ...
1) Single moms
2) People in dire straits
3) Native protestors

No, I'm saying their suffering shouldn't be used as the framework for ironic comedy...which your intended audience will view as support.

[Michael Hardner]

10 minutes ago, WIP said:

No, I'm saying their suffering shouldn't be used as the framework for ironic comedy...which your intended audience will view as support.

I have my methods.  Scorn is more effective IMO.