Alberta may cut off oil to BC

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Rex Havoc said:

Farmed salmon. Oh how yummy. 

If you like the taste of crap.

I wonder how Albertans would feel if Ottawa forced them to build nuclear plants instead of oil infrastructure.  Like I've said before I really really wish Ottawa treated Alberta's oil the way it treats BC's salmon.  Maybe then Albertans would appreciate how BC feels. 

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, eyeball said:

If you like the taste of crap.

I wonder how Albertans would feel if Ottawa forced them to build nuclear plants instead of oil infrastructure.  Like I've said before I really really wish Ottawa treated Alberta's oil the way it treats BC's salmon.  Maybe then Albertans would appreciate how BC feels. 

What about BC oil and gas, or trees?  I'm sure if Alberta had salmon the rules would be the same?

[bush_cheney2004]

56 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

What about BC oil and gas, or trees?  I'm sure if Alberta had salmon the rules would be the same?

 

Sure, but Ottawa already hosed Alberta once with P. Trudeau's failed NEP...long before salmon limits for BC.

[Thinkinoutsidethebox]

On 3/16/2018 at 10:00 PM, cannuck said:

I don't think you fully appreciate the SIZE of the Athabasca Oil Sands.  At the very least (what can be produced from existing technologies) it is greater than the deposits of the Middle East.  On the other end of the calculations:  future technologies could give access to the rest of the deposit that is probably greater than all of the hydrocarbon reserves of the rest of the planet.

Yep, the oil sands hold a lot of crude, your statement is more than I've ever heard though. It seems they are discovering new sources of oil that are larger than any current sources on the planet at least once a year. Anybody recall the claims the US had reached peak oil and was all downhill from then? Happened three times in my life that I can remember and now they are the are the biggest producers on the the planet, go figure...

On 3/16/2018 at 10:00 PM, cannuck said:

Reality is: the end of cheap oil is just around the corner, but hardly the end of petroleum.  While energy sources will likely shift to renewables and alternatives (which pisses me off instead of simply learning how to reduce consumption - we are just looking for other ways to continue wasting energy at an ever increasing rate).  While we still have a carbon economy (and make no  mistake, that is exactly what we have and will have for a very long time to come) Alberta might as well cash in on the shift to expensive oil - that is exactly what the Oil Sands is - plays right into its economic hand.  What NEEDS to be done, though, is limit exports to synthetic crude, not dilbit.

Our need to waste energy by shipping goods around in circles, lighting every square inch of space, heating huge areas we rarely use and encouraging travel just for the hell of it is going to wipe us out...

I don't think the human being is capable of reducing waste and overconsumption of resources, Cape Town  South Africa is a good example with their water crisis. We are going to ruin this planet if we operating the way we are. The human being is truly a cancer on this planet, if you need proof just look at the time lapse photos of the night side of the planet and you can see how we are growing and spreading. 

It's interesting that the very technology that's supposed to make life easier less stressful and more productive seems to haven't changed our lives at all. We are forever on this treadmill of how we can waste more and more energy, I read some article last night that stated human energy consumption is going to double by the end of the century, at the rate we are converting to "clean" energy it's going over four hundred years.

Did you know Bitcoin, the total digital currency now uses vast amounts of energy? It's called Bitcoin mining, a perfect example of how we absolutely have to find ways to waste. 

[Rex Havoc]

3 hours ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said:

Yep, the oil sands hold a lot of crude, your statement is more than I've ever heard though. It seems they are discovering new sources of oil that are larger than any current sources on the planet at least once a year. Anybody recall the claims the US had reached peak oil and was all downhill from then? Happened three times in my life that I can remember and now they are the are the biggest producers on the the planet, go figure...

Our need to waste energy by shipping goods around in circles, lighting every square inch of space, heating huge areas we rarely use and encouraging travel just for the hell of it is going to wipe us out...

I don't think the human being is capable of reducing waste and overconsumption of resources, Cape Town  South Africa is a good example with their water crisis. We are going to ruin this planet if we operating the way we are. The human being is truly a cancer on this planet, if you need proof just look at the time lapse photos of the night side of the planet and you can see how we are growing and spreading. 

It's interesting that the very technology that's supposed to make life easier less stressful and more productive seems to haven't changed our lives at all. We are forever on this treadmill of how we can waste more and more energy, I read some article last night that stated human energy consumption is going to double by the end of the century, at the rate we are converting to "clean" energy it's going over four hundred years.

Did you know Bitcoin, the total digital currency now uses vast amounts of energy? It's called Bitcoin mining, a perfect example of how we absolutely have to find ways to waste. 

Do you feel we are all going to die from global warming?

Are you one of those?

[Thinkinoutsidethebox]

2 hours ago, Rex Havoc said:

Do you feel we are all going to die from global warming?

Are you one of those?

Actually no, the planet seems to be warming and I believe mankind is contributing to it but I don't believe it's our carbon output as much as the shear heat we are releasing from all forms of energy derived from underground as well as from what we are absorbing and releasing into the lower atmosphere from the sun (heat that's normally reflected back into space). 

I also don't believe the weather is any worse today than it's ever been, we just have a better ability to record it now. There are thousands of stories in the past of extreme weather (Noah's ark for instance). Weather events affect populated areas the most and as we continue expanding, paving and changing the landscape to our purposes natural flows of water and air are effected. Although we consider weather events for the immediate area we are not building for weather events over larger areas, upstream and downstream of our current projects. People also don't realize that the atmosphere is fluid and weather events can move, grow, collapse completely unpredictably, it will be a long while yet before we will be able to collect and process enough data to forecast weather with  any degree of accuracy. Scientists claiming the world is going to end because of climate change is the same as me predicting the world is going to turn into a tropical paradise due to climate change, neither one of us have a clue. 

That being said I believe warming will actually contribute to stabilizing the atmosphere (CO2 is supposed to be an insulator and I think increased water vapor would also help to stabilize temperatures over the planet). Warming should make more of the planet habitable.

Climate change has been happening since the beginning of climate so mankind has never "caused" it. Mankind is definitely contributing, there is no question there.   

[cannuck]

9 hours ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said:

Yep, the oil sands hold a lot of crude, your statement is more than I've ever heard though. It seems they are discovering new sources of oil that are larger than any current sources on the planet at least once a year. Anybody recall the claims the US had reached peak oil and was all downhill from then? Happened three times in my life that I can remember and now they are the are the biggest producers on the the planet, go figure...

Our need to waste energy by shipping goods around in circles, lighting every square inch of space, heating huge areas we rarely use and encouraging travel just for the hell of it is going to wipe us out...

I don't think the human being is capable of reducing waste and overconsumption of resources, Cape Town  South Africa is a good example with their water crisis. We are going to ruin this planet if we operating the way we are. The human being is truly a cancer on this planet, if you need proof just look at the time lapse photos of the night side of the planet and you can see how we are growing and spreading. 

It's interesting that the very technology that's supposed to make life easier less stressful and more productive seems to haven't changed our lives at all. We are forever on this treadmill of how we can waste more and more energy, I read some article last night that stated human energy consumption is going to double by the end of the century, at the rate we are converting to "clean" energy it's going over four hundred years.

Did you know Bitcoin, the total digital currency now uses vast amounts of energy? It's called Bitcoin mining, a perfect example of how we absolutely have to find ways to waste. 

You are preaching to the choir.  NOTHING makes me more upset that driving down a US interstate and seeing exactly the same load going one way as the other.   Then one starts to think:  all of this trucking is going on because we can't be bothered to manufacture diddly squat on a local basis, where only some raw materials need to be moved in bulk, but we let the cheap labour in another country take resources shipped often from here, to there, made into a lot of garbage quality products and just load up our landfills much faster.  The displaced workers get to be greeters at WalMart to watch what was once their jobs go out of the door all day long.  Sorry, waste really gets me wound up.

Two comments, though:  One of the problems with the anti-carbon and alternative fuels business is that we expend massive amounts of resources to figure out how we can continue to waste even more energy doing the stupid things we do now to a greater extent.  Seems impossible to get the human animal look at the real problems and do something about it.   Which brings me to the second:  this is a really nice 1Bn or so planet.   How does anyone expect our species to be sustainable when we are closing in on 8Bn and reproducing like rabbits?

[Thinkinoutsidethebox]

I don't know Cannuck, somehow how we made it this far, so far the earth is absorbing our waste but it seems each day we are creating new ways to exterminate ourselves (and possibly destroy the planet). Every day I read about new technologies that will fix the human condition and/or the planet.

Can we go on as recklessly as we have? Do we honestly care about future generations? Will making a few individuals and corporations super wealthy and powerful fix things? Will creating supercomputers smarter than all of mankind fix things? Will making some humans immortal fix things? 

Maybe we are all like Notley, save the environment until  the looming election when suddenly we can't pump the oil fast enough...

[bush_cheney2004]

Is it official now....an economic and constitutional crisis over the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion ?

Will the BC tree huggers prevail ?  

Trans Mountain is now an economic and constitutional disaster

 

 

[eyeball]

Maybe Alberta should borrow a page from British Petroleum to convince BC.

Coastal towns would enjoy an economic boon from a massive oil spill...

Yeah, that's the ticket.

[bush_cheney2004]

Now it is just getting bizarre....Alberta's premier is now proposing that the government buy the Trans Mountain pipeline to remove opposition over its current ownership (Kinder Morgan Canada, Ltd. is owned by those evil Americans....in Texas of all places !).

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-notley-says-alberta-government-would-consider-buying-trans-mountain/

 

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Now it is just getting bizarre....Alberta's premier is now proposing that the government buy the Trans Mountain pipeline...

Ah...so Alberta is now proposing a national program...that's in line with increasing references to Canadian oil and Canadian's interests.

Bizarre indeed.

Quote

...to remove opposition over its current ownership (Kinder Morgan Canada, Ltd. is owned by those evil Americans....in Texas of all places !).

If I was in charge of Alberta's oil I'd hire Norway to manage it. 

[Accountability Now]

11 hours ago, eyeball said:

Ah...so Alberta is now proposing a national program...

No. It’s a provincial program that will benefit the nation. Last time I checked, Ottawa wasn’t kicking in any funds

 

11 hours ago, eyeball said:

If I was in charge of Alberta's oil I'd hire Norway to manage it. 

Again, you struggle with the fact that Alberta is not a country. But then again I’m surprised to hear you even talking like this as I thought we were all earthlings??

[eyeball]

46 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

No. It’s a provincial program that will benefit the nation. Last time I checked, Ottawa wasn’t kicking in any funds

Fair enough, however lets wait and see how long Ottawa's exclusion lasts.  Should this actually go ahead I doubt it will take long before Alberta goes shopping for partners.

Quote

Again, you struggle with the fact that Alberta is not a country. But then again I’m surprised to hear you even talking like this as I thought we were all earthlings??

You mean the way Alberta struggled with Canada to the point of threatening to build a firewall around itself and separate?   But then again I'm not surprised to see you overlook that while implying we're all in or should be in this together.

Speaking of which...one of my main reasons for not wanting oil to come to tidewater in BC is that doing so will almost ensure this oil ends up fuelling the growth and ambitions of the biggest dictatorship on the planet, a dictatorship that's shown a lot less regard for the environment or the Earthlings that depend on it than we have.  As for my selfishness with regard to BC - I'm someone who's livelihood depends on a healthy functioning environment and no mega-project like a pipeline has ever been built without disturbing BC's ecosystems to the extent that they always end up killing a bunch of BC's, excuse me, Canada's salmon.  Again, you never seem to struggle with the contradictions of a misbegotten confederation that both pulls Canada together while also pushing it apart.  I guess it all just depends on who is doing the pushing or pulling and when and why.

Edited April 11, 2018 by eyeball

[bush_cheney2004]

36 minutes ago, eyeball said:

...  I guess it all just depends on who is doing the pushing or pulling and when and why.

 

Indeed, because we both know that commercial fishing (especially trawling) has done far more to damage BC fisheries and marine environments than oil pipelines, loading terminals, and crude carriers.

[eyeball]

28 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Indeed, because we both know that commercial fishing (especially trawling) has done far more to damage BC fisheries and marine environments than oil pipelines, loading terminals, and crude carriers.

No we don't know that at all.

In any case the other side of the coin that says over-fishing in BC says bad-management from Ottawa, something that most people who depend on fishing on the west coast are all too aware of.  Of course trolls like you will nay say any mention of moving management of BC's fisheries out to the coast where it should be.

Like I said it all depends on who is doing the pushing or pulling and when and why and as far as you're concerned that's simply to stir up shit for the sake of stirring it up.

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

...Like I said it all depends on who is doing the pushing or pulling and when and why and as far as you're concerned that's simply to stir up shit for the sake of stirring it up.

 

Agreed...and you don't like it when it is stirred in the other direction.  

Typical...expected....all is well.

[eyeball]

7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Agreed...and you don't like it when it is stirred in the other direction.  

Except I'm not the troll here.  AN's and my stakes are obvious enough in this but what's your's and why should it matter?

Edited April 11, 2018 by eyeball

[bush_cheney2004]

9 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Except I'm not the troll here.  AN's and my stakes are obvious enough in this but what's your's and why should it matter?

 

Relax....don't dish it out if you can't take it.

My stakes are obvious....the "North American" hydrocarbon economy (natural gas, oil, bitumen, distillates, etc.)....besides, I am also an "earthling".

Fish...not so much.

Unceded BC land has been stolen, occupied, and raped for generations....so NOW pipelines are a problem ?    That's laughable.

Edited April 11, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[Accountability Now]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

Fair enough, however lets wait and see how long Ottawa's exclusion lasts.  Should this actually go ahead I doubt it will take long before Alberta goes shopping for partners.

It doesn't need Ottawa's money. If anything it may attract other private partnership but not federal. 

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

You mean the way Alberta struggled with Canada to the point of threatening to build a firewall around itself and separate?   

I love your revamped idea of history but there has never been a threat from the Alberta government to separate. There has been talk of separation, just like there has been in every province including BC or should I say Cascadia, however the highest interest garnered by such a movement was during the Trudeau Sr era. And even that movement wasn't an Alberta separation, it was a Western Canada separation. Most people in Alberta now realize that having BC in any future separation plans makes it a null point. 

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

But then again I'm not surprised to see you overlook that while implying we're all in or should be in this together.

This is ironic coming from a British Colombian resident as the pipeline has been deemed to be in Canada's interest by the federal government yet its BC shouting the individualistic claims. All in this together until its something we don't want....is that BC's provincial slogan?

 

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

Speaking of which...one of my main reasons for not wanting oil to come to tidewater in BC is that doing so will almost ensure this oil ends up fuelling the growth and ambitions of the biggest dictatorship on the planet, a dictatorship that's shown a lot less regard for the environment or the Earthlings that depend on it than we have.  

But I'm sure you have no problem buying products from this said dictatorship. Or more importantly do you have a problem with this said dictatorship largely fueling the Real Estate market in your province...which by the way is your largest industry by GDP. 

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

As for my selfishness with regard to BC - I'm someone who's livelihood depends on a healthy functioning environment and no mega-project like a pipeline has ever been built without disturbing BC's ecosystems to the extent that they always end up killing a bunch of BC's, excuse me, Canada's salmon.  

So will I see you protesting all the new LNG pipelines that BC is going after. Surely those will affect your salmon...no? Or will you look the other way because its not Alberta's pipeline?

 

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

  Again, you never seem to struggle with the contradictions of a misbegotten confederation that both pulls Canada together while also pushing it apart.  I guess it all just depends on who is doing the pushing or pulling and when and why.

The irony is staggering again on this. Alberta lost the Northern Gateway and Energy East because Canada determined it wasn't in our best interests. Canada has since stepped in and shown that TransMountain is in the best interest and has ruled as such, yet it is now BC throwing the tantrum. Yet you have the gall to claim its Alberta who doesn't understand Confederation?? Priceless. 

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Relax....don't dish it out if you can't take it.

You miss the point, which is that I like most people in the ha’wiih ha-houlth-ee I live in don't want to take it, from you, Alberta or Ottawa.  Virtue trumps the economy around here...doen't like that? Too bad so sad.  More to the point we don't need to take it if enough of us stand up to it.

If Canada is really bent on fuelling up the hydro-carbon economy of distant dictatorships it'll have to get dictatorial here at home first.

Edited April 11, 2018 by eyeball

[bush_cheney2004]

9 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You miss the point, which is that I like most people in the ha’wiih ha-houlth-ee I live in don't want to take it, from you, Alberta or Ottawa.  Virtue trumps the economy around here...doen't like that? Too bad so sad.  More to the point we don't need to take it if enough of us stand up to it.

 

Nonsense....virtue is all show and no go in BC too.   Biggest exports for coal in North America.

 

Quote

If Canada is really bent on fuelling up the hydro-carbon economy of distant dictatorships it'll have to get dictatorial here at home first.

 

Canada already begs for pipelines and more exports "south of the border"...has done so with foreign capital for decades.....because foreign capital is right at home in Canada.

Edited April 11, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[eyeball]

39 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

It doesn't need Ottawa's money. If anything it may attract other private partnership but not federal. 

I love your revamped idea of history but there has never been a threat from the Alberta government to separate. There has been talk of separation, just like there has been in every province including BC or should I say Cascadia, however the highest interest garnered by such a movement was during the Trudeau Sr era. And even that movement wasn't an Alberta separation, it was a Western Canada separation. Most people in Alberta now realize that having BC in any future separation plans makes it a null point. 

Excuse me but Alberta's Firewall or Agenda which had a Canadian PM's signature on it no less, had the intent to stop unwanted intrusion from outside of Alberta, and specifically Canada. Alberta can go freeze along with the rest of the eastern bastards as far as we're concerned and for the very same reasonj.

 

Quote

But I'm sure you have no problem buying products from this said dictatorship. Or more importantly do you have a problem with this said dictatorship largely fueling the Real Estate market in your province...which by the way is your largest industry by GDP.

I'm buying things made by other human beings, not the government of China, and as a matter fact I do have a problem with speculators skewing our real estate market, especially if they are people who made money by exploiting human beings and the environment.  These are not 'values' I want to see immigrating to Canada, your man Trudeau might but not me. 

Quote

So will I see you protesting all the new LNG pipelines that BC is going after. Surely those will affect your salmon...no? Or will you look the other way because its not Alberta's pipeline?

You'll definitely see me protesting this for the same reasons. especially if the intent is to sell it China.  I'd just as soon separate Vancouver Island from Victoria for the very same reason I'd separate BC from Ottawa. 

Quote

The irony is staggering again on this. Alberta lost the Northern Gateway and Energy East because Canada determined it wasn't in our best interests. Canada has since stepped in and shown that TransMountain is in the best interest and has ruled as such, yet it is now BC throwing the tantrum. Yet you have the gall to claim its Alberta who doesn't understand Confederation?? Priceless.

Washington State, along with a lot of other Earthlings are against Trans Mountain too don't forget.  I'd say Alberta understands Confederation all to well  given how Canada lost Energy East because Ottawa is too afraid of ramming it thru 4 or 5 provinces.   Ganging up on one province instead is so very Canadian wouldn't you say? You should given Alberta's experience when it happened to you.  There's more than enough gall to go around in this alright.

Edited April 11, 2018 by eyeball

[eyeball]

18 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Nonsense....virtue is all show and no go in BC too.   Biggest exports for coal in North America.

Your mistake is in assuming everyone in BC is with Victoria.

Quote

Canada already begs for pipelines and more exports "south of the border"...has done so with foreign capital for decades.....because foreign capital is right at home in Canada.

Figures you'd double down on the same mistake.  Governments seem to be doing most of the begging. Not differentiating between governments and the governed so you can lump them all together and make everyone guilty by extension is typical of the mugs game you like to play. 

[PIK]

Time for the government to tell all environmentalists to STFU and start building. I am tired of fringe/minority groups standing in the way of what this country needs. And BC needs to be punished in a way they will never forget.