The most powerful militaries in the world

[Goddess]

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Canadian business has a history of being lazy.

Agreed.  Some of our potential trade partners don't want to get involved with us because we dawdle at everything.  Like the pipeline.

[cannuck]

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I find it embarrassing to have Canada asking to be exempt from US trade policies. We are not entitled to American charity and it is unseemly to beg for it. We need to get some back bone and, if we are unsatisfied with US policy, get out and beat the bushes for business partners in Europe and Asia. Canadian business has a history of being lazy. Trade with the Americans is low hanging fruit. President Trump is responsible to the US electorate and if they want to alter their trading arrangements, that is their right. I know that seems self-evident, but there are many Canadians who don't seem to understand this.

We share culture, language, border, transportation and economic systems with the US - thus why it make all of the sense in the world to prefer trading there.  For example:  Euroweenies drive cars, Canadians drive pickups, SUVs and other slovenly pigs made and driven by the US.  We sell parts to make those things from here, and buy the value added end product.  We don't share technical standards with Europe or Asia, and South America is too socialist and Africa is too screwed up to have any money, so why would we want to trade there??

Our problem in business is not too much trade with the US, it is not nearly enough.  Try to manufacture anything here, and you will quickly learn that you can buy the same inputs South of the 49th for half the price.

[Queenmandy85]

24 minutes ago, cannuck said:

 Yes, Hellyer was indeed one of the Red Torries under that nitwit Pearson,

Hellyer was a slick grit, not a Tory. After he was crushed in the grit leadership convention in 1968, he disappeared until emerging as a grit in blue clothing to run for the Conservative leadership. Humiliated there, he even tried to start his own party. He was a fat head.

[bush_cheney2004]

10 minutes ago, cannuck said:

We share culture, language, border, transportation and economic systems with the US -

 

Share ?   More like...dominated.

[Queenmandy85]

10 minutes ago, cannuck said:

Our problem in business is not too much trade with the US, it is not nearly enough.

Lets hope the United States wants to continue the present level of trade, or even increase it but there are signals that may not be the case. 

[bush_cheney2004]

9 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Lets hope the United States wants to continue the present level of trade, or even increase it but there are signals that may not be the case. 

 

I sure hope not....too many Canadian, Mexican, and other legals/illegals taking American jobs and driving wages down in the past.

Why can't they find work back home ?

75% exports to one nation (Canada => USA) looks like DUMPING.

[cannuck]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

I sure hope not....too many Canadian, Mexican, and other legals/illegals taking American jobs and driving wages down in the past.

Why can't they find work back home ?

75% exports to one nation (Canada => USA) looks like DUMPING.

When Americans learn to invest their money on Main Street, where it can create wealth and jobs instead of throwing it all at Wall Street where the Casino Capitalists add no value at all, create no wealth, and create no jobs, maybe things will change.  While Yanks are so busy rolling the dice at the casino, waiting for their lottery win or trying to sue their neighbour - while consuming vast quanities of scrips, OTC and recreational drugs, it is left for the productive part of the world to meet the consumer and business demands of the USA.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, cannuck said:

... while consuming vast quanities of scrips, OTC and recreational drugs, it is left for the productive part of the world to meet the consumer and business demands of the USA.

 

Sure...because nobody would ever use drugs in Canada or Mexico.

Better to dig tunnels to the USA and make lots 'mo money !

[Queenmandy85]

6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

75% exports to one nation (Canada => USA) looks like DUMPING.

Looks like trade. Do American citizens not have the right to buy what they choose or would you rather have a socialist solution?

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Looks like trade. Do American citizens not have the right to buy what they choose or would you rather have a socialist solution?

 

Canada imposed tariffs on U.S. gypsum board (drywall) first...payback is a bitch !

Do Canadian citizens not have the right to buy what they choose (e.g. dairy, drywall,) ?    No !

 

[?Impact]

20 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

75% exports to one nation (Canada => USA) looks like DUMPING.

Canada buys more from the US than the other way around, Canada is the largest customer for the US.

[cannuck]

2 hours ago, ?Impact said:

Canada buys more from the US than the other way around, Canada is the largest customer for the US.

That is probably true for value added (manufactured) goods, but I suspect our resource exports knock that out of the ballpark.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 hours ago, ?Impact said:

Canada buys more from the US than the other way around, Canada is the largest customer for the US.

 

The United States does not send 75% of exports to Canada....only about 16 %

[Argus]

18 hours ago, cannuck said:

That is probably true for value added (manufactured) goods, but I suspect our resource exports knock that out of the ballpark.

Nope. The US consistently has a trade surplus with us. Everyone agrees on this, including the US government. Everyone but Trump, of course who has his own reality.

[Argus]

18 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

The United States does not send 75% of exports to Canada....only about 16 %

Yes. True. But almost all of that is manufactured goods. It's way easier to find a market for the oil, gas, wood, food and other resources we ship to the US than it is for the US to find more markets for their manufactured goods. A trade war would at least cause public opinion to force through more pipelines to the coasts as well as the LNG plant BC was going to have built. It would be short term pain for long term gain. On the US side it would be short term pain for long term pain, as there is no conceivable way they would gain from it. On the political side it would likely force greater trade cooperation between Canada and China, which would not be in the US's benefit either.

[bush_cheney2004]

7 hours ago, Argus said:

Yes. True. But almost all of that is manufactured goods. It's way easier to find a market for the oil, gas, wood, food and other resources we ship to the US than it is for the US to find more markets for their manufactured goods. A trade war would at least cause public opinion to force through more pipelines to the coasts as well as the LNG plant BC was going to have built.

 

No other OECD nation is so dependent on exports to and capital investment from a single nation as is Canada dependent on the United States.   Economically, the U.S. is an existential threat to Canada because of this lopsided relationship.  

Canada should have built east-west pipeline and other infrastructure long ago, ignoring petty provincial politics and tree huggers.  Trump is actually doing Canada a favour.

 

Quote

It would be short term pain for long term gain. On the US side it would be short term pain for long term pain, as there is no conceivable way they would gain from it. On the political side it would likely force greater trade cooperation between Canada and China, which would not be in the US's benefit either.

 

The U.S. and China have already increased trade beyond Canada/Mexico.   China is a much more important present and growth market than much smaller Canada, already dominated by American ownership.

The U.S. owes Canada nothing that does not serve U.S. interests.   Canada is not a protectorate or client state of the United States, but it sure acts like one.

 

Edited March 4, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[Argus]

48 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

No other OECD nation is so dependent on exports to and capital investment from a single nation as is Canada dependent on the United States.   Economically, the U.S. is an existential threat to Canada because of this lopsided relationship.  

Canada should have built east-west pipeline and other infrastructure long ago, ignoring petty provincial politics and tree huggers.  Trump is actually doing Canada a favour.

 

 

The U.S. and China have already increased trade beyond Canada/Mexico.   China is a much more important present and growth market than much smaller Canada, already dominated by American ownership.

The U.S. owes Canada nothing that does not serve U.S. interests.   Canada is not a protectorate or client state of the United States, but it sure acts like one.

 

I couldn't help noticing that you didn't actually make any attempt to address what I said and discuss this like an adult. Instead you just want to wag your tiny wiener around and continue with your trollish USA! USA! attitude, which frankly is boring as shit. So back into my ignore folder for you. You're just a waste of time.

[bush_cheney2004]

7 minutes ago, Argus said:

I couldn't help noticing that you didn't actually make any attempt to address what I said and discuss this like an adult. Instead you just want to wag your tiny wiener around and continue with your trollish USA! USA! attitude, which frankly is boring as shit. So back into my ignore folder for you. You're just a waste of time.

 

That's what you get for expecting otherwise....I am not here to kiss Canada's ass when it comes to being a NATO deadbeat and dependency on the U.S. economy.

I answered your question directly...you just don't like the answer.

Example:  LNG is already happening in the U.S....tree huggers be damned.

Ignore reality all you wish.

 

Edited March 4, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[cannuck]

What does the US owe Canada?  Simple: tit for tat in free and open access for investement and trade.  US companies own HUGE stakes in Canadian resources, which we have allowed it to do with relative freedom from restrictions and unfair taxation.  Doing so has resulted in stifling the value added production that SHOULD have happened in Canada (that's not on the US, that is what Canadians did to themselves by giving money to Wall Street and Bay Street instead of investing directly in Main Street.)

As for Canada not contributing to NATO:  Yesterday we had a parade adding theatre honours to the colours of Canada's oldest volunteer regiment - as did 64 other Canforce units for Afghanistan.   This was the longest military engagement for Canada in its entire history and was done simply because our closest ally was attacked.  It was initiated with considerable political capital at risk by a Liberal government and similarly sustained by the Conservatives. 

I also recall very well allowing American military forces to have free and complete access to Canadian territory to build the Distant Early Warning line - all on Canadian soil.  We were quite willing to paint a great big target on our chest in support of the country with which we share the longest unprotected border in the world and a fully integrated economy.

It is an insult and piss off when an American ignorant of such things cannot recognize and respect such contributions to their defense and well being.

Edited March 4, 2018 by cannuck

[bush_cheney2004]

10 minutes ago, cannuck said:

What does the US owe Canada?  Simple: tit for tat in free and open access for investement and trade.  US companies own HUGE stakes in Canadian resources, which we have allowed it to do with relative freedom from restrictions and unfair taxation.  Doing so has resulted in stifling the value added production that SHOULD have happened in Canada (that's not on the US, that is what Canadians did to themselves by giving money to Wall Street and Bay Street instead of investing directly in Main Street.)

 

OK, but the Americans have invested far more in Canada than the Canadians have invested in the U.S.   Canada has long lacked sufficient domestic capital to grow and expand its economy without foreign direct investment (FDI).

Some Canadians (e.g. Maude Barlow) fought this to prevent becoming so dependent and influenced by the Americans, but Canadian governments sold out anyway.    Britain had already cast Canada aside for its own troubles/interests, so Canada turned towards the bastard Americans and their dominant post WW2 economy.

"Damn Americans...I hate those bastards" - Carolyn Parrish

Edited March 4, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[cannuck]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

OK, but the Americans have invested far more in Canada than the Canadians have invested in the U.S.   Canada has long lacked sufficient domestic capital to grow and expand its economy without foreign direct investment (FDI).

Some Canadians (e.g. Maude Barlow) fought this to prevent becoming so dependent and influenced by the Americans, but Canadian governments sold out anyway.    Britain had already cast Canada aside for its own troubles/interests, so Canada turned toward the bastard Americans and their dominant post WW2 economy.

"Damn Americans...I hate those bastards" - Carolyn Parrish

You need to allow for the fact that Canada has 1/10th of the population of the US - thus our counter-investment is similarly proportioned.  HOWEVER:  it is the preponderence of US investment here, plus the very unfortunate charactaristic of the Canadian econmy being seconded to banking and finance (as is the case in the US) that results in very little value added processing - thus wealth creation is extremely limited to resource extraction.     Sadly, we copy the US by letting finance have our cash to play with, but since Manhattan sucks up most of that money, it goes to work South of the 49th.  The exception of course is in Ontario, where 70% of all Canada/US trade takes place in the automobile industry.

In my case, US investment (in real business, not Casino Capitalist Wall Street crap) is about the same ratio as to population - 10x more to the US side than Canada.  It remains to be seen how much China will change that picture - as that is where there are still new markets emerging that we can service.

[bush_cheney2004]

12 minutes ago, cannuck said:

You need to allow for the fact that Canada has 1/10th of the population of the US - thus our counter-investment is similarly proportioned. 

 

Understood, but some Canadians think that means equal access to the entire American market, which is also 10X the size.    Negotiations usually cap this with quotas, but these can break down when market conditions change or one side seeks an advantage.   Canada is only 8% of NA's population

Canada competes well in certain sectors on a global scale (e.g. mining),  but it lacks the capacity and capital to compete in many other sectors.   Canada has also had periods when human capital has emigrated away to better opportunities, never to return.

Ultimately, Canada will have to expand its domestic and export markets for Canadian value added products and services and compete, or remain dominated by foreign interests.

 

Edited March 4, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[cannuck]

37 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Understood, but some Canadians think that means equal access to the entire American market, which is also 10X the size.    Negotiations usually cap this with quotas, but these can break down when market conditions change or one side seeks an advantage.   Canada is only 8% of NA's population

Canada competes well in certain sectors on a global scale (e.g. mining),  but it lacks the capacity and capital to compete in many other sectors.   Canada has also had periods when human capital has emigrated away to better opportunities, never to return.

Ultimately, Canada will have to expand its domestic and export markets for Canadian value added products and services and compete, or remain dominated by foreign interests.

 

You are very correct, but none of this will happen until we (both sides of the border) realize that you can't run an economy on speculation.   Someone has to actually go to work and create wealth by adding value to a commodity or delivering a NECESSARY service in support.  Main street in the US has a ready domestic market (albeit one that must now service $20 TRILLION in debt) whereas Canada has 10% of that market, but spread over a very long distance.

To do value added processing, our habit is to imitate or branch subsidiary out to the US.  Problem is: costs up here make it impossible to do the same-same except in very limited circumstances (auto industry being prime example).  We simply don't have protection against restrictive interstate business that is written into US law and business culture.  As a result, input costs for materials, equipment, support and transportation are much, much higher.  We must learn to concentrate in things we do best that are unique to our situation - but business here is just not that sophisticated in strategic planning or thinking.   Worse yet: a significant part of the business community and pretty much 100% of academia believes that government should have some role in financing, managing, planning and even executing business ventures!!!  We tend to be technically highly competent but lack any real depth in management, finance and entrepreneurial culture.

[bush_cheney2004]

21 minutes ago, cannuck said:

You are very correct, but none of this will happen until we (both sides of the border) realize that you can't run an economy on speculation.   Someone has to actually go to work and create wealth by adding value to a commodity or delivering a NECESSARY service in support.  Main street in the US has a ready domestic market (albeit one that must now service $20 TRILLION in debt) whereas Canada has 10% of that market, but spread over a very long distance.

 

Agreed, but U.S. GDP is not nearly as dependent on exports as is Canada's.    70% of the U.S. economy depends on consumer spending, and it has the population size to do this efficiently across the continent.   Canada has been raping it's natural resources on a scale that is much larger than its population requires (for export trade)....I often think it ironic that Canada can move logs and pulp more efficiently than it can distribute the Pampers diapers that are made from them.

 

Quote

To do value added processing, our habit is to imitate or branch subsidiary out to the US.  Problem is: costs up here make it impossible to do the same-same except in very limited circumstances (auto industry being prime example).  We simply don't have protection against restrictive interstate business that is written into US law and business culture.  As a result, input costs for materials, equipment, support and transportation are much, much higher.  We must learn to concentrate in things we do best that are unique to our situation - but business here is just not that sophisticated in strategic planning or thinking.   Worse yet: a significant part of the business community and pretty much 100% of academia believes that government should have some role in financing, managing, planning and even executing business ventures!!!  We tend to be technically highly competent but lack any real depth in management, finance and entrepreneurial culture.

 

That certainly appears to be the case....trade barriers between provinces are much greater than anything to do with the USA or NAFTA.   There are people and organizations who think BIG in Canada, but they are often beaten down by competing political and commercial interests plus a lack of national drive.    Further, nationalism and pride are derided as "American style", in two official languages.

 

Edited March 4, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[cannuck]

On 3/4/2018 at 9:52 AM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Agreed, but U.S. GDP is not nearly as dependent on exports as is Canada's.    70% of the U.S. economy depends on consumer spending, and it has the population size to do this efficiently across the continent.   Canada has been raping it's natural resources on a scale that is much larger than its population requires (for export trade)....I often think it ironic that Canada can move logs and pulp more efficiently than it can distribute the Pampers diapers that are made from them.

 

This is one of the MANY places where economists screw up horribly.  Measuring that 70% of activity as consume spending alone doesn't take into consideration that the activity is simply resale and distribution costs of some things, most of which had the serious value added offshore.  Economists also measure purely speculative activity and gains and consider it part of the economy...but it really needs to be reported separately as part of the Casino Capitalist Economy.  We move logs effectively when the forest is near tidewater.  It is a bitch to move pampers cost effectively when you have a HUGE distance between shitty bums to wipe.