cannuck Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 Just now, cannuck said: Were we stupid enough to allow the US bank/finance world free access to Canadians, we would have been cleaned out by the hundreds of billions in the mortgage scam business. Damn good thing we are protecting our banking from reckless, unregulated orgy of greed. Your banks can't play by the rules. Come talk to us when you can. What was challenged in Quebec was delivery of service by private providers - not universal sick care insurance. ANYONE can buy supplementary insurance, as sick care universal coverage is for necessary medical only, not electives, dental, vision, etc. I have Blue Cross, as do most people I work with - as we travel extensively in the US and around the world. It IS all bare faced protectionism as we suffer from sharing a marketplace with a giant that has even greater levels of trade distorting protectionism in tariffs, subsidies and non-trade barriers. And, one that does not follow the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 49 minutes ago, cannuck said: Were we stupid enough to allow the US bank/finance world free access to Canadians, we would have been cleaned out by the hundreds of billions in the mortgage scam business. Damn good thing we are protecting our banking from reckless, unregulated orgy of greed. Your banks can't play by the rules. Come talk to us when you can. This is patriotic nonsense...the Canadian banks who operated in the USA also needed billions in FED bailouts. The CPP investment board has more allocations in U.S. equities, bonds, and real estate than any other nation in the world, including Canada. It is completely separate from U.S. banks operating in Canada under Canadian regulation...nice try. Quote What was challenged in Quebec was delivery of service by private providers - not universal sick care. ANYONE can buy supplementary insurance, as sick care universal coverage is for necessary medical only, not electives, dental, vision, etc. I have Blue Cross, as do most people I work with - as we travel extensively in the US and around the world. Why did the plaintiff even have to go to such measures to break the grip of the socialist monopoly ? The really funny part is that provinces have standing contracts with U.S. based providers that are funded by public and private pay insurance, making up for Canada's lack of resources and long wait times. Quote It IS all bare faced protectionism as we suffer from sharing a marketplace with a giant that has even greater levels of trade distorting protectionism in tariffs, subsidies and non-trade barriers. And, one that does not follow the rules. Why the hell would the U.S. follow stupid rules that starve Canada of capital and investment opportunities ? I sure that Venezuela follows the rules too ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said: The US is not blackmailing or bullying Canada. It is merely using it's size to persuade Canada to accept a deal that puts Canada at a disadvantage. Using your size to try to force someone smaller to do something to your advantage is the DEFINITION of bullying. Edited August 30, 2018 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, paxamericana said: No what it comes down to is does Canada want to do free trade or continue on with protectionist trade. If protectionist trade is Canada's long term goal then a trade deal with the world's largest freemarket economy will not be possible. This view of Trumpists that the US is a wonderland of free trade while every other nation is protectionist is a demented fairy tail spun by a drooling imbecile. The US has never been among the world's top free traders, and after this year is probably among the world's most protectionist states. Edited August 30, 2018 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 Canadian media is beginning to turn on Trudeau and supply management, realizing that he already caved for CETA/TPP. It's all over but the screaming: Quote Whatever we do, Canada should insist on a level playing field. The United States and its dairy farmers are no angels in this debate, but while it is often claimed that the U.S. heavily subsidizes dairy, U.S. dairy subsidization has dropped dramatically over the past decade. According to various Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development analyses, Canadian subsidization of dairy is now between 3.5 and seven times greater than in the United States. In removing supply management, we should insist on measures, on both sides, that would allow for fair competition. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-what-does-a-give-to-the-us-on-dairy-look-like/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paxamericana Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Argus said: This view of Trumpists that the US is a wonderland of free trade while every other nation is protectionist is a demented fairy tail spun by a drooling imbecile. The US has never been among the world's top free traders, and after this year is probably among the world's most protectionist states. So the fact that trump offered free-trade defined by zero tariff, zero non tariff barriers, zero subsidies make no never mind to you? If some "drooling imbecile" offered me such a great deal I'd take it. Whose the idiot, the person denying such a great offer or the person offering said offer? Tariff was a way to encourage other countries to take the carrot and not the stick. If Canada want the stick then that's Canada's prerogative. Edited August 30, 2018 by paxamericana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 23 minutes ago, paxamericana said: So the fact that trump offered free-trade defined by zero tariff, zero non tariff barriers, zero subsidies make no never mind to you? If some "drooling imbecile" offered me such a great deal I'd take it. Whose the idiot, the person denying such a great offer or the person offering said offer? Tariff was a way to encourage other countries to take the carrot and not the stick. If Canada want the stick then that's Canada's prerogative. Ya sure. Bla, Bla, Bla. US Tariff Data Base Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, paxamericana said: So the fact that trump offered free-trade defined by zero tariff, zero non tariff barriers, zero subsidies make no never mind to you? Hey, buddy, I got this nice bridge here. You wanna buy it? Cash only! Trump makes these grandiose offers which bear no relation to reality. He might be able to have his administration slap 'security' tariffs on things, but he has zero control over already establishes US tariffs which are imposed by congress for a variety of internal political reasons. Those tariffs are NOT going to be removed. Period. And everyone knows this except, apparently, Trumpists, who put zero thought into considering anything the great leader says. Zero tariffs? What would zero tariffs be like? Hmm. Remember that guy who talked about that giant sucking sound of jobs going to Mexico? No tariffs would send a massive flood of jobs into Mexico and other low wage countries, and bring a huge flood of cheap agricultural products into the US from third world countries which pay workers a dollar an hour. So it's never gonna happen. Edited August 30, 2018 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paxamericana Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Argus said: Zero tariffs? What would zero tariffs be like? Hmm. Remember that guy who talked about that giant sucking sound of jobs going to Mexico? No tariffs would send a massive flood of jobs into Mexico and other low wage countries, and bring a huge flood of cheap agricultural products into the US from third world countries which pay workers a dollar an hour. So it's never gonna happen. Zero tariffs would mean Canada gets absorbed into the US economy... Even if congress denied it, would that not shift the ball to the american side and prove Canada's point. why leave that ball in the Canadian side, worse way to conduct negotiation, if you want to prove us wrong then take the offer first! Edited August 30, 2018 by paxamericana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 Quote Then there price supports for the U.S. dairy industry under the Dairy Products Price Support Program and the national dairy market loss payments program, which doled out $403 million in 2012. The array of disaster assistance and risk management programs for farmers paid out $1.750 billion in 2012. Plus of course, the grain American farmers feed their animals is also subsidized. Corn Soybeans Of course this doesn't include the 6 billion package Trump announced for soy and grain producers that could go as high as 12 billion. Donald Trump, free trader. Total bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paxamericana Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, Wilber said: Plus of course, the grain American farmers feed their animals is also subsidized. Corn Soybeans Of course this doesn't include the 6 billion package Trump announced for soy and grain producers that could go as high as 12 billion. Donald Trump, free trader. Total bullshit. No, as I have said. The offer was made. It is Canada and the rest of the world who rejected it. If freetrade was nothing but a dream it was not America that crushed it. It was Canada and the rest of the world that destroyed hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 1 minute ago, paxamericana said: No, as I have said. The offer was made. It is Canada and the rest of the world who rejected it. If freetrade was nothing but a dream it was not America that crushed it. It was Canada and the rest of the world that destroyed hope. Trump is full of shit and the rest of the world knows it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paxamericana Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Wilber said: Trump is full of shit and the rest of the world knows it. Not according to current trade progress by the EU and mexico, if anything its indicative of the trade cheat like China and Canada 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, paxamericana said: Not according to current trade progress by the EU and mexico, if anything its indicative of the trade cheat like China and Canada True...Canada has quietly tightened down on the Chinese transshipments now that it has been busted by Trump. Game over, cheaters. Quote The biggest exporters of steel to the U.S., including Canada, Mexico, Australia, Argentina, Brazil and South Korea, have received exemptions valid until May 1 to negotiate “satisfactory alternative means,” according to the White House. Ottawa’s new measures may be part of an effort to convince Washington to grant a more long-term, or permanent, exemption to the tariffs. https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=3f3b2007-0998-46d9-975a-75f439e12cf7 Edited August 30, 2018 by bush_cheney2004 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 1 hour ago, paxamericana said: Not according to current trade progress by the EU and mexico, if anything its indicative of the trade cheat like China and Canada What about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 Canada has seen a steady decline in foreign direct investment (FDI) because of low oil prices and stupid policies by its government. Sunny ways ! https://business.financialpost.com/opinion/look-how-much-foreign-investment-has-fled-canada-since-the-liberals-took-over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 4 hours ago, paxamericana said: Zero tariffs would mean Canada gets absorbed into the US economy... Even if congress denied it, would that not shift the ball to the american side and prove Canada's point. why leave that ball in the Canadian side, worse way to conduct negotiation, if you want to prove us wrong then take the offer first! Okay. I accept it. Now remove all your tariffs. And yes, I have as much authority and power to accept as Trump does to eliminate American tariffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 2 hours ago, paxamericana said: Not according to current trade progress by the EU and mexico, if anything its indicative of the trade cheat like China and Canada Do I have to point out, yet again, that 99% of trade between Canada and the US is tariff free, or was until you started putting in tariffs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 56 minutes ago, Wilber said: What about it? He doesn't actually know anything about either of them, you know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 Does anyone know what concessions Mexico made to the US and vice versa.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: Does anyone know what concessions Mexico made to the US and vice versa.... This is not a complete accounting, but we know this much so far....which may or may not survive Canada's input this week: Mexico agrees to raise sourced parts content to a 75% vs. 62.5% of North American plants, which will have the impact of reducing Chinese and increasing U.S./Canada parts content (good for Canada); 40 to 45% of Mexican workers making vehicles must earn $16 per hour. Mexico agreed to eliminate Chapter 19 dispute process (bad for Canada) Mexico agreed to intellectual property and patent rules extension for U.S. pharma and other IP (bad for Canada) Mexico agreed to a 6 year NAFTA review cycle and 16 year cancellation if no agreement is reached Mexico will buy more U.S. ag and other products like corn to help offset the trade imbalance Mexico will raise its duty free limit to be more in line with the USA, putting pressure on Canada's paltry $20 The U.S. made some concessions based on Trump's hard-ball tariff and non-tariff threats: U.S. will review/remove steel/aluminum tariffs after NAFTA is passed U.S. will cap vehicles imported from Mexico at 2.4 million before tariffs kick in U.S. agreed to reduce Chapter 11 NAFTA challenges to only key industries https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/28/the-associated-press-details-of-the-preliminary-us-mexico-trade-deal-at-a-glance.html https://www.reuters.com/article/us-trade-nafta/u-s-mexico-reach-nafta-deal-pressure-turns-to-canada-idUSKCN1LC1E7 Edited August 31, 2018 by bush_cheney2004 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 The long knives keep coming out for Trudeau's back.....Trump telegraphed exactly what he was going to do for over a year but the Liberals still blew it: Quote For Canada, a bad NAFTA deal is better than no deal at all To accept the Canadian government's mantra that "no deal is better than a bad deal" is to misread the situation. First, that view arrogantly overstates our economic importance to the Americans. Despite having a balanced trading relationship, 75 per cent of Canada's exports are bound for the U.S., while only 15 per cent of U.S. exports are destined for Canada. Our research on the post-Sept. 11 period demonstrates that American businesses can reorient those exports away from Canada when bilateral barriers to trade increase. Second, the argument fundamentally misunderstands how the ground has shifted with Mexico since its incoming president was elected in July. President-elect Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador is anxious for NAFTA to be finalized so that he can focus on domestic matters, and both the U.S. and Mexico are using the transition period to accelerate a deal. ...In many respects, accepting a worse deal will be the price that Canada must pay for the Trudeau government's early missteps on NAFTA. From pre-emptively offering to negotiate the deal before President Trump ever asked, to ragging the puck on negotiations throughout, to criticizing Trump following his departure from the G7 meeting in Quebec: Trudeau's team placed Canada in the penalty box when it mattered most. https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/nafta-canada-1.4800838 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 Here is the United States - Mexico Trade Fact Sheet....no mention of Canada: https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-offices/press-office/press-releases/2018/august/modernizing-nafta-be-21st-century? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paxamericana Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 3 hours ago, Argus said: Do I have to point out, yet again, that 99% of trade between Canada and the US is tariff free, or was until you started putting in tariffs? So why don't you put that remaining 1 percent into the 99 percent and make it 199% free trade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paxamericana Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 3 hours ago, Argus said: Okay. I accept it. Now remove all your tariffs. And yes, I have as much authority and power to accept as Trump does to eliminate American tariffs. Great now you can elect a new leader or your self to do that in 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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