DogOnPorch Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 Just now, Wilber said: Just saying what I think If you really think I'm a Nazi or support them you really have not been paying attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: If you really think I'm a Nazi or support them you really have not been paying attention. I don't think that at all. I just don't think you treat this with the seriousness it deserves, or you are just trolling. I never know with you. Edited August 14, 2017 by Wilber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 Just now, Wilber said: I don't think that at all. I just don't think you treat this with the seriousness it deserves, or you are just trolling. I'm never know with you. Why the f--- would I care what a mob of 'Progs' and "Nazis" do to each other? Should I phone the paramedics? Would that appease you? I'd turn the fire hoses on the lot... "Look! Wet idiots!" (laughing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 Just now, DogOnPorch said: Why the f--- would I care what a mob of 'Progs' and "Nazis" do to each other? Should I phone the paramedics? Would that appease you? I'd turn the fire hoses on the lot... "Look! Wet idiots!" (laughing) So why do you bother to post on this topic if you don't give a shit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 Just now, Wilber said: So why do you bother to post on this topic if you don't give a shit? Why post anything anywhere? Do you get to decide? If not...go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 In the United States (not Canada), "brown shirts" have the constitutional right to "rally in the streets", as do "white supremacists" and "Nazis". So do their critics. Enjoy the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) Meanwhile...this is supposed to ultimately be about destroying Robert E Lee's legacy in regards to US history. Erase, erase, erase.... Edited August 14, 2017 by DogOnPorch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Why post anything anywhere? Do you get to decide? If not...go away. What was I deciding and who was I telling to go away? I'm now going with trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said: Meanwhile...this is supposed to ultimately be about destroying Robert E Lee's legacy in regards to US history. Erase, erase, erase.... No it isn't, it was about moving his statue from a park to a museum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 1 minute ago, Wilber said: What was I deciding and who was I telling to go away? I'm now going with trolling. I actually had a relative wounded at Seven Pines with the 52nd NY...what's your Civil War connection? Lee and such figure in my family history. 3 minutes ago, Wilber said: No it isn't, it was about moving his statue from a park to a museum. Right...and the forces of good will be doing likewise re: Union generals....correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Right...and the forces of good will be doing likewise re: Union generals....correct? No statue is safe now....snowflakes won't have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said: No statue is safe now....snowflakes won't have it. They can do the right thing by sending me all their $50 US bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 26 minutes ago, LonJowett said: I think the Dixie Chicks would disagree. Why? I like the Dixie Chicks. And I was never a fan of Bush. Nor am I a fan of Trump. You realize neither one is a conservative, don't you? 26 minutes ago, LonJowett said: Both the Nazis and the anti-Nazis showed up ready for a fight, but the Nazis were more heavily armed. Really? In what way? They seemed equally well armed to me. It was ironic to see, in the National Post this morning, a column decrying the white supremacist violence in Charlottesvile with a picture of a Black man using a spray can as a flame thrower aiming it at the white supremacists. 26 minutes ago, LonJowett said: If you were aware at all of the discourse before the event, you would know that a lot of the Nazis were planning on beating liberal protesters. Don't try to pretend it was one sided. It wasn't at all. I'm sure they were. They knew who was waiting them, after all! And that kind thrives on street brawling. But this traces back to Berkeley, when ANTIFA beat the crap out of Trump demonstrators. That was the last time the alt-right types showed up for one of their demos unarmed or expecting not to be attacked. The reason it was particularly violent here was the incompetence of the local police in keeping the sides apart. The fact remains that whatever you or I think of these people, they had a legal right to demonstrate, and the far left set out to stop them by violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 28 minutes ago, Wilber said: When Brown Shirts were warring in the streets with Communists and everyone else during the early thirties, I don't suppose any of them represented you either but that didn't make it irrelevant. Fewer and fewer people have a direct connection with what went on during those years, either personally or through relatives and I think we are more in danger of repeating history the more distant that connection becomes. One of the things you are forgetting about those days was that it was fear of the communists/Bolsheviks which drove a lot of otherwise mainstream people to vote in the Nazis. Just as now it is dislike for identity politics and the shrill, accusatory preachiness of the Left which drove a number of people to vote for Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 On 8/13/2017 at 10:43 AM, Argus said: I didn't really find anything wrong with Trump's statement. Here's why. The views of the white nationalists/supremacists are stupid and offensive. Tough. People are allowed to have stupid, offensive views. I don't often quote jurists but Oliver Wendel Holmes got it right. “If there is any principle of the Constitution that more imperatively calls for attachment than any other it is the principle of free thought — not free thought for those who agree with us but freedom for the thought that we hate.” We do not, in other words, have free speech to protect speech which is popular and inoffensive. That sort of speech does not require any protection. We have free speech to protect speech which is offensive, unpopular and distasteful. So this group with stupid views wanted to hold a march and a demo in a park. They got a permit. All is good. Then there was this other group from the far left. They could not disagree more strenuously with Holmes or with the concept of freedom of speech, assembly, and thought. As far as they are concerned only speech they agree with should be allowed. So they organized and set out with the well-stated goal of preventing the other group from having their march and demo. And they came equipped with clubs, chains, pepper spray, helmets, shields and body armor. That they call themselves anti-fascists yet espouse the behavior of fascists is ironic, but immaterial. They are the cause of the violence in Charlottesville. The duty of the police was to keep them away from the white supremacists. The police failed, and the white supremacists never got to hold their demo. What will probably happen next is the white supremacists will apply for another permit. The city will refuse. It will go to court. The city will lose. Hopefully the police will be better organized for the next march, perhaps arresting many of the 'anti-facist' organizers and confiscating their weaponry before the demo takes place. Now I'm not defending the white supremacists. Their views are moronic and they're a violent bunch and probably have a lot of sub-literate cretins among them - much like that idiot who drove his car into the other side. They also came equipped to fight, knowing who they'd be facing. But they have a right to their views and their demo in a free society. Again, the failure here is of the police in keeping the groups separated. I still find it odd that a permit is needed to take part in a free speech demonstration. But I guess compared to the BLM protests, were permits granted for that? Perhaps no one applied for one. If they had, wonder if the BLM protests would have turned out different/better. And I am with you, no one is defending white supremacists. That's also counter productive in my view. At least it seems that Trump is taking all extremists to task. That seems good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 9 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: I actually had a relative wounded at Seven Pines with the 52nd NY...what's your Civil War connection? Lee and such figure in my family history. Right...and the forces of good will be doing likewise re: Union generals....correct? You may have had a relative wounded at Seven Pines, other Americans had relatives who were slaves in Virginia and the rest of the South. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said: They can do the right thing by sending me all their $50 US bills. $50 bills ? We would throw pennies at the huge bronze statue of Tecumseh (from the burned USS Delaware) for good luck on exams. Tecumseh was a Shawnee warrior chief who fought against the U.S. while allied with the British. Don't tell the snowflakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, Wilber said: You may have had a relative wounded at Seven Pines, other Americans had relatives who were slaves in Virginia and the rest of the South. 52 NY Regiment = Union (German volunteers) Not Reb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 Just now, DogOnPorch said: 52 NY Regiment = Union (German volunteers) Not Reb. He was on the right side then. Good for him. Ever wonder what he would think if this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: $50 bills ? We would throw pennies at the huge bronze statue of Tecumseh (from the burned USS Delaware) for good luck on exams. Tecumseh was a Shawnee warrior chief who fought against the U.S. while allied with the British. Don't tell the snowflakes. Lee was a fine fellow. No matter what the snowflakes may think. Grant, however... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, Wilber said: You may have had a relative wounded at Seven Pines, other Americans had relatives who were slaves in Virginia and the rest of the South. My relatives actually were slaves in Virginia, but that doesn't change any American's right to free speech. Keep the "hate speech" laws in Canada and Europe, where they value peace over freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 Just now, Wilber said: He was on the right side then. Good for him. Ever wonder what he would think if this. The right side? In 1862, when Seven Pines occurred, the conflict wasn't even about 'right or wrong' re: slavery. It was still about King Cotton. Remember...Lee had already 'emancipated' his slaves before hostilities. A large number of Union generals were staunchly FOR continuing slavery. Nobody reads Bruce Catton, anymore, it would seem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Lee was a fine fellow. No matter what the snowflakes may think. Grant, however... Lee was one of the great soldiers of the 19th century and widely regarded as a real gentleman. It's unfortunate that he chose to fight for a cause that wanted to keep people as slaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 1 minute ago, Wilber said: Lee was one of the great soldiers of the 19th century and widely regarded as a real gentleman. It's unfortunate that he chose to fight for a cause that wanted to keep people as slaves. Sure...better to fight for a cause that wanted to continue "genocide" against Native Americans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonJowett Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 11 minutes ago, Argus said: Why? I like the Dixie Chicks. And I was never a fan of Bush. Nor am I a fan of Trump. You realize neither one is a conservative, don't you? Really? In what way? They seemed equally well armed to me. It was ironic to see, in the National Post this morning, a column decrying the white supremacist violence in Charlottesvile with a picture of a Black man using a spray can as a flame thrower aiming it at the white supremacists. I'm sure they were. They knew who was waiting them, after all! And that kind thrives on street brawling. But this traces back to Berkeley, when ANTIFA beat the crap out of Trump demonstrators. That was the last time the alt-right types showed up for one of their demos unarmed or expecting not to be attacked. The reason it was particularly violent here was the incompetence of the local police in keeping the sides apart. The fact remains that whatever you or I think of these people, they had a legal right to demonstrate, and the far left set out to stop them by violence. You're trying to argue it wasn't conservative people who were threatening the Dixie Chicks when they exercised their right to free speech? It was. Again, if you were aware of the lead-up to this demonstration, many of the Nazis were going specifically to engage in violence. I'm sure there were people on the left with the same intent, but we can see the Nazis were much more successful at it now that we have a body count. The fact remains that whatever you or I think of these people, the anti-racists (be they left or right wing) had a legal right to counter-protest, and the Nazis set out to beat and kill them. In simpler terms, the people getting run down in the street were not preventing the poor defenceless Nazis from exercising their right to free speech. They were just exercising their own right to the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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