Compensating Khadr

[hot enough]

On 7/20/2017 at 0:30 PM, PIK said:

That has to bee[sic] one of the dumbest post[sic] ever. I guess you are to[sic] young to know about the nazi's[sic]. The most feared of them all was the nazi youth. Mean lean killers. Trained form[sic] birth just like Omar.

You ought to consider learning history and English, PIK.

===============

 

The Secret Wars of the CIA

Excerpts from a talk by John Stockwell

 

These are the activites done by the Contras. The Contras are the people President Reagan called "freedom fighters." He said: "They are the moral equivalent of our founding fathers."

In 1960, we came up with a new term, a policy of trying to correct the problems of Central and Latin America -- the economic imbalances -- by addressing them directly. In President Kennedy's famous program he said: "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable." However, the millions and millions of dollars that we put into this program, inevitably went to the rich, and not to the ordinary people of the countries involved. While we were doing this, or trying -- saying we were trying to correct the problems of Central and Latin America -- the CIA was doing its thing too.

The CIA was, in fact, forming the police units that are, today, the death squads in El Salvador. The leaders were on the CIA's payroll, trained by the CIA in the United States. We had the public safety program going throughout Central and Latin America for twenty-six years, in which we taught them to break up subversion by interrogating people: interrogation, including torture, the way the CIA taught it.

Dan Mitrione, the exponent of these things, spent seven years in Brazil and three in Uruguay, teaching interrogation; teaching torture. He was supposed to be the master of the business: how to apply the right amount of pain, at just the right times, in order to get the response you want from the individual. They gave them crank generators -- with "U.S.A.I.D." written on the side, so the people even knew where these things came from -- and developed a wire that was strong enough to carry the current and fine enough to fit between the teeth, so you could put one wire between the teeth, and the other in or around the genitals. You could crank, and submit the individual to the greatest amount of pain, supposedly, that the human body can register.

Now, how do you teach torture? Someone can teach you about torture, but sooner or later you have to get involved. You have to lay on your hands and try it yourself. They would pick up guinea pigs off the streets: beggars, and take them in to use in these torture training classes. Of course, the horror of that is, these people wouldn't know why they were being tortured. They couldn't give up. They couldn't say: "I'm sorry! Stop the pain! I'll tell you the names of everybody involved!" All they could do was lie there and scream!

When they would collapse, they would bring in doctors who would shoot them up with Vitamin B and rest them up for the next class. And when they would die, they would mutilate the bodies and throw them out on the streets to terrify the population, so that everybody would be afraid of the police and the Government. This is what the CIA was teaching them to do.

...

There's a lesson in all this. The lesson is:
  It isn't just the Gestapo maniacs, or KGB maniacs, who do inhuman things to other people.
  It's PEOPLE who do inhuman things to other people.
And we [USA] are responsible for doing these things on a massive basis, to people of the world today. We do it in a way that gives us plausible denial to our own consciences. We create a CIA, a secret police, with a vast budget, and let them go and run these programs in our name. We pretend like we don't know what's going on, though the information is there for us to know. And we pretend like it's okay because we're fighting some vague communist threat. We're just as responsible for these ONE TO THREE MILLION PEOPLE we've slaughtered, and for all the people we've tortured and made miserable, as the Gestapo was for the people that they slaughtered and killed. Genocide is genocide !!

http://www.serendipity.li/cia/stock1.html

Edited July 22, 2017 by hot enough

[bush_cheney2004]

Another view on Trudeau's Payout 10.5:

 

Quote

 

Many years ago, the Canadian government forced thousands of Aboriginal students to go to residential schools. I'm not going to get into what this program was all about because that would take a while. But let's just say it was bad... to put it mildly.

Many of the Aboriginal students in the residential schools were routinely beaten, tortured, emotionally abused, and sexually abused. It was terrible. Like I said before, no child should ever have to go through anything like this. EVER! But they did. And, it was directly caused by the Canadian government.

Many years later, the Canadian government apologized for this atrocity and settled with the surviving Aboriginals.

What do you think the settlement was? How much do you think these Aboriginals received for the anguish caused directly by the Canadian government. You'd think it would be more than they gave Omar Khadr, given their degree of responsibility in the suffering that was created.

... If Omar Khadr received $10 million from Canada, then each and every surviving member of Canada's residential schools deserves to get $20 million. Give it to them, NOW!!!

http://www.omarkhadr.ca/

 

Edited July 22, 2017 by bush_cheney2004

[Omni]

16 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

If Omar Khadr received $10 million from Canada, then each and every surviving member of Canada's residential schools deserves to get $20 million. Give it to them, NOW!!!

So how much do you figure you owe your native people, and then let's not forget all those black slaves.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Omni said:

So how much do you figure you owe your native people, and then let's not forget all those black slaves.

 

Improper use of quoting function....try again.

Previously, you mocked tortured and dead "aboriginal" victims by posting they should have gotten better lawyers compared to little Omar.

[Omni]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Improper use of quoting function....try again.

Previously, you mocked tortured and dead "aboriginal" victims by posting they should have gotten better lawyers compared to little Omar.

Obfuscation as usual. Try again.

[bush_cheney2004]

This dear Omar cartoon has a MAD Magazine vibe....

 

https://www.thespec.com/opinion-story/7408500-editorial-cartoon-july-6/

 

[betsy]

22 hours ago, PIK said:

If you think sleep deprivation is torture,

 

We've got generation of wusses!

 

 

Quote

I hope you don't find out what real torture is.

All they gotta do is show this clip.....

 

 

 

........and they'll be singing like canaries!

 

Edited July 22, 2017 by betsy

[Omni]

10 minutes ago, betsy said:

We've got generation of wusses!

I guess the religious freaks would prefer to see him nailed to a cross.

[hot enough]

Quote

This dear Omar cartoon has a MAD Magazine vibe....

 

Are you a drag queen?

Edited July 22, 2017 by hot enough

[hot enough]

1 hour ago, betsy said:

All they gotta do is show this clip.....

All they gotta do is read the bible.

[hot enough]

13 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Previously, you mocked tortured and dead "aboriginal" victims by posting they should have gotten better lawyers

You are a really sick individual. Can you direct me to your thread on the two plus centuries US genocide of Native Americans?

[Rue]

5 hours ago, Omni said:

I guess the religious freaks would prefer to see him nailed to a cross.

You have her mixed up with the Muslim extremist terrorist beliefs of Kadr, his family and Al Quaeda. Isn't it special how you engage in a passive aggressive anti Christian insult  against Betsy while posing as a moral saint on this thread.

She's not a religious freak because she's a conservative Christian

I will say it again liberals like you are the worst of bigots. You engage in passive aggressive bigotry in your words posing as enlightened

This thread is about Kadr not her.

[Rue]

3 hours ago, hot enough said:

You are a really sick individual. Can you direct me to your thread on the two plus centuries US genocide of Native Americans?

You are  a child. Your raison d'etres is to come on this board and derail topics. Calling the US a Nazi state has nothing to do with the thread. Your technique of using the Nazi accusation reflects your ignorance. You use it instead of the word poo or kaka. Your inability to understand Nazism causes you to turn Nazi into a catch phrase to call things poo poo and ka ka.

This thread is about Kadr not your personal need to call the US poo and ka.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Rue

[Rue]

4 hours ago, hot enough said:

 

Are you a drag queen?

If you are going to try imitate my questions to Omni, at least use the reference appropriately.

Just as I think your attempts to be hee hee giggle giggle can't get any more poo poo ka ka you surprise me,

There I know you understood my last sentence.

If you have nothing to say about Kadr  run along and start another conspiracy thread and explain your science background Dr.

 

[hot enough]

31 minutes ago, Rue said:

a catch phrase to call things poo poo and ka ka.

I'm not at all surprised by your fascination with the above. It's you.

[Rue]

On ‎2017‎-‎07‎-‎21 at 0:59 PM, Omni said:

Nothing to do with the integrity of the legal system,(where did you get that idea)?, simply to do with the strength of the case at hand. That's what out of court settlements are all about.

More crap. Nuisance settlements are not about the merit of a case they are about avoiding legal costs. Trudeau tried to pass off his not referring the amount of the award to the Supreme Court not as an issue based on merit but financial savings. He said financial savings not merit. He said financial savings. You can spin it and fabricate what he said but its there for all to see. He turned it into a nuisance settlement, i.e., the argument the cost did not merit proceeding further. The need to protect the integrity of all our laws required he reference the doctrines of public morality and dirty hands to determine if they would reduce the amount to a nominal amount, because by not doing so, by not making that reference, he has now created the precedent our government will award terrorists when their Charter rights are violated without contesting the amount, but instead doing invisible back room deals. This coming from someone who got elected complaining Harper did things in secret but he would not.

 No one knows the actual amount that was given to Kadr. It could have ben 20 million for all anyone knows. The 10 million amount was an indirect leak from the Liberal government. Its not based on anything but a leak. The actual amount remains secret. That is wrong. That was public taxpayer's money. We all h ad the right to know the amount. We all had the right to expect he go to the court and ask whether the amount should be reduced to a nominal amount so all terrorists know, they can't directly profit from engaging in terrorist activities. Re abandoned his moral responsibility to do this for us or as you like to say WE. You know WE the term you use when its convenient for your partisan defence of Trudeau acting like he acts in our best interests and WE love him.

Kadr has been awarded for being a traitor. He was involved in violence and terror against our ally. That is treason.

You can spin Trudeau  didn't believe he could win a dirty hands doctrine reference but that did not happen. It could not happen because he couldn't and wouldn't receive an opinion from any lawyer it would not work to reduce the amount. There is no precedent to base a legal opinion and  Its precisely why he did not say he did not proceed because there were no merits to the dirty hands or public morality doctrines. He has no legal basis for such an opinion. The only way to know if it applies is for the court to create new law. Spin until doomsday your spin makes no legal sense. None.

Let's also respond and make it clear, while you write your inane apologies and half-assed spins for Trudeau's moral cowardice thathis current liberal government pushes a case for far more in legal fees than the Kadr case TO JUSTIFY NOT GIVING WAR VETERANS PROPER FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE on their return to Canada.  This government has no problems making Kadr a millionaire but shortchanging our war vets.

It in one breath writes off the Kadr case as a nuisance to  fight because it will cost money, but in the next breath spends out of control to bankrupt this nation and screw our vets returning from the theatre of conflict.

This government is cowardly. It has no moral values other than  what it takes to avoid controversy and engage in never ending photo ops for Trudeau. This popinjay was nowhere to be seen when the announcement was made Kadr was paid off just like he was nowhere to be seen when the refugee fiasco reared its ugly head. He hides when the going gets tough and dumps his responsibilities on Ministers only to surface for more photo ops.

This superficial coward never fails to make it to a gay pride festivity including the one in Halifax but will he stand up for all Canadians? Where was he saying it was wrong to exclude police from the Toronto parade. He hid. His silence spoke loudly. he's no leader he's a feel good photo op poser. Where was this fiscally responsible PM concerned about the cost of the Kadr reference when he spent this country into bankruptcy? You can't defend his two faced lie about being concerned about being fiscally responsible so you stick to the spin that its based on a non existent legal opinion pretending lawyers can form legal opinions on things they have no pre-existing legal precedent for. Right. 

You fool no one with your repeat spinning of what Trudeau did.

We will have to wait for another Prime Minister with integrity and leadership qualities to test this issue and respect our men and women who sacrifice in uniform and not put a terrorist on a higher moral plane that they.

. As long as Trudeau remains in power, we get what comes from moral cowards brought up with silver spoons-spineless jello-his legacy will be like Obama's-a reign of avoiding making hard decisions about moral principles and  running every time he was tested by a terrorist or corrupt bully.

Trudeau engaged in moral cowardice and has failed to lead this country in paying off Kadr without having the moral decency and integrity to reference the Charter violation remedy to the Supreme Court to determine, It was up to the Court to determine the amount NOT TRUDEAU. It was up to the Supreme Court to formulate a new legal precedent to balance public morality and the moral doctrine policies with the appropriate remedy for a Charter violation.

In fact a reference to the Supreme Court would have provided us a clear precedent to use in the future. Now we have only the results of Trudeau avoiding the courts making a ruling. We have a political coward deciding to run from the reference to cover his pathetic party's ass in the next election nd this issue is showing its going to get him thrown out. Some principles like not awarding criminals, terrorists and traitors can't be spinned.

What Kadr did burns the gut of the majority of Canadians precisely because we know what Kadr was wrong and no mistakes from our government changes that..

Edited July 22, 2017 by Rue

[hot enough]

20 minutes ago, Rue said:

More crap.

You said it, Rue. And you dumped it. Lord, you are one confused lad. 

[Rue]

30 minutes ago, hot enough said:

I'm not at all surprised by your fascination with the above. It's you.

Don't flatter yourself I am not fascinated by what comes out of you although I do question how

someone your size produces so much of it.

The movements you identify with speak for themselves.

 

 

Edited July 22, 2017 by Rue

[Rue]

10 minutes ago, hot enough said:

You said it, Rue. And you dumped it. Lord, you are one confused lad. 

You are not confusing. stop flattering yourself.

[hot enough]

8 minutes ago, Rue said:

You are not confusing. stop flattering yourself.

So desperate. Go for Rue voluble.

[Rue]

4 minutes ago, hot enough said:

So desperate. Go for Rue voluble.

I get it, poo poo ka ka, now goo goo and gaga.

Not Lady Gaga though. Hottty gaga.

On that note I am out of here, You clearly need my attention and like mosquitoes I just shut the screen door.

Bug bye buzz buzz

[Omni]

2 hours ago, Rue said:

the argument the cost did not merit proceeding further

That's the argument right there. The rest of you lengthy screed just goes in bad grammatical circles. 

[betsy]

In Nova Scotia, Trudeau had to explain again about the decision to compensate Khadr.  People are aghast, Justin!  And, rightly so.

 

I want to know how you came up with the amount:  $10.5  million!  Explain that!

 

The circumstances surrounding Khadr, isn't comparable with Arar's!

 

Quote

Maher Arar Accepts Ottawa's Apology - And $10.5 Million Compensation

 

He accepted a long awaited – and much cheaper – settlement package from the federal government Friday. He had originally been asking for $400 million. He settled for $10.5 million, along with another $1 million to cover his legal costs.

Arar was tortured for almost a year and lost his job amid a cloud of suspicion. He was eventually cleared in an inquiry conducted by Mr. Justice Dennis O’Connor and received an apology from R.C.M.P. Commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli, who would tearfully resign his post over the affair.

Both sides made reference to the large amount that taxpayers will dole out for the tragic mistake, and both insist that no amount of cash will ever be enough to undo the damage.

The engineer was preparing to fly to Montreal from Tunisia when he was held at a New York airport in 2002 and subsequently sent to Syria by U.S. authorities after they received incorrect info about alleged al-Qaida ties from the Mounties. Canadian officials brought him home more than a year later, and a judicial inquiry eventually cleared him.

 

Key dates in the Maher Arar ordeal, courtesy Canadian Press:

Sept. 18, 2006: Inquiry report blames RCMP for supplying inaccurate and unfair to Americans about Arar’s alleged terrorist leanings, likely basis for the U.S. decision to detain and deport. Says Arar has committed no crime and is no threat to Canadian security.

Sept. 28, 2006: RCMP Commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli apologizes to Arar, but says he will not resign. Receives support from government and some opposition parties.

Dec. 6, 2006: Zaccardelli resigns after acknowledging he provided erroneous information about the Arar case to a Commons committee.

 

http://www.citynews.ca/2007/01/26/maher-arar-accepts-ottawas-apology-and-10-5-million-compensation/

 

Maher Arar deserved the amount - and maybe even more -  for what he's been through.  Canada was directly responsible for the tragedy that had happened to him and his family!

 

Maher Arar asked for $400 million.  Khadr asked for $20 million.  Do you see the big difference?

And the Liberals gave both men the same amount of settlement:  $10.5!  Imagine that?  They should've just given Khadr $1 million!

 

If I were Arar right now,  I'd be demanding for more!  Why the heck do you equate me  with someone like Khadr?

Edited July 23, 2017 by betsy

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, betsy said:

In Nova Scotia, Trudeau has to explain again about the decision to compensate Khadr.  People are aghast, Justin!

 

I want to know how you came up with the amount:  $10.5  million!  Explain that!

 

The circumstances surrounding Khadr, isn't comparable with Arar!

 

http://www.citynews.ca/2007/01/26/maher-arar-accepts-ottawas-apology-and-10-5-million-compensation/

 

Maher Arar deserved to be compensated for what he's been through.  Canada was direcly responsible for the tragedy that had happened to him and his family!

 

Maher Arar asked for $400 million.  Khadr asked for $20 million.  Do you see the big difference?

And the Liberals gave both men the same amount of settlement:  $10.5!  Imagine that?  They should've just given Khadr $1 million!

 

If I were Arar right now,  I'd be demanding for more!  Why the heck do you equate me with someone like Khadr?

Well, given the Arar case Canada should have known better than to try screwing Khadr. Canada needs to be punished with a several hundred million dollar settlement.

Personally I'd send the bill to the federal Conservative and Liberal parties myself. They're the ones who've really put Canada behind this particular 8-ball.

[capricorn]

On 2017-07-21 at 8:47 PM, hot enough said:

You ought to consider learning history

You stole that line from another poster who suggested the same for you.