Compensating Khadr

[dialamah]

Just now, capricorn said:

Kid my ass. Because my loyalty lies with Canada and always will, unlike that treasonous murdering jihadist.

Geneva Convention considers anyone under 18 a child soldier.  

We have an entire legal system specially for kids under 18 or 19 because they are considered less culpable than adults.  

Generally speaking, how much influence do you expect parents would or should have over their kids between the ages of 9 and 15, for good or ill.  

Look at the pic of Khadr under a pile of rubble, two bullets in his back, and explain how he could have been throwing grenades 15 seconds earlier.

Consider the 7 different reports of that event, how they contradict each other and how 5 of the 7 do not implicate Khadr.

If you refuse to even consider any alternate information that contradicts what you think is true then again I ask you, why do you expect more from a 15-year-old than you do yourself?

 

[dialamah]

5 minutes ago, Charlie said:

 

I don't get this part. How is he a terrorist when nobody could prove it. Are we living in Somalia or Saudi Arabia or China where you could tag anyone as terrorist because you feel so. 

'Feels' are all that matters.

[Hal 9000]

5 minutes ago, Charlie said:

 

I don't get this part. How is he a terrorist when nobody could prove it. Are we living in Somalia or Saudi Arabia or China where you could tag anyone as terrorist because you feel so. 

Good Grief...really?  So, you're one of those Liberals that you talked about who don't believe he was a terrorist?  Well, tell me then, what was he?

[Hal 9000]

1 minute ago, dialamah said:

'Feels' are all that matters.

No, feeling (and flat out denial) are what you people are spewing.  Logic and common sense sides with Khadr being a terrorist.  A canadian terrorist - sure, a young terrorist - sure, but FFS, just like his mom, dad, brother and sister, he is a terrorist.

And, what's more - you women can't "save" him.   

[Charlie]

Just now, Hal 9000 said:

Good Grief...really?  So, you're one of those Liberals that you talked about who don't believe he was a terrorist?  Well, tell me then, what was he?

I really don't know. His family has ties with terrorists. His dad and mom are clearly Jihadis.  But that doesn't mean he is also a terrorist by association or he killed someone at the age of 15... It's complicated. 

[Omni]

5 minutes ago, Charlie said:

It's complicated. 

Way too complicated for some of our right wingers who can't comprehend laws such as our charter, and just want to throw him back in jail so they don't have to think about the issue.

[Hal 9000]

2 minutes ago, Charlie said:

I really don't know. His family has ties with terrorists. His dad and mom are clearly Jihadis.  But that doesn't mean he is also a terrorist by association or he killed someone at the age of 15... It's complicated. 

Lets sort this out, his entire family are admitted terrorists.  Mom and Dad sent him to terrorist school.  He is seen on video making bombs, He was caught on a battlefield in Afghanistan with another person (killed) and plenty of spent ammo.  He has admitted to killing a US solider and commented that that was the best day of his life.  In recent interviews, he nearly fesses up again that he did it.  

Now, not only does common sense dictate that he's a terrorist, your "gut feeling" should also tell you that he's a terrorist.  It's not as complicated as you make it out to be.  I'll let you in on a secret, regardless of what a court found...OJ Simpson is a murderer - that's right!  My common sense and gut feeling tell me so - a court finding him not guilty, did not complicate my belief.

My issue now, is wondering how the school system can fail so many people and render them helpless to use common sense.   

[capricorn]

30 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Look at the pic of Khadr under a pile of rubble, two bullets in his back, and explain how he could have been throwing grenades 15 seconds earlier.

It's not hard to imagine. Adrenaline alone can lead to unexpected actions. And now look at Khadr, healthy as could be thanks to Americans who saved his eyesight and his life.

[Omni]

12 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

My issue now, is wondering how the school system can fail so many people and render them helpless to use common sense.   

Blame your school if you think it's justified, but maybe they didn't actually teach law at your level.

[Hal 9000]

2 minutes ago, Omni said:

Blame your school if you think it's justified, but maybe they didn't actually teach law at your level.

Yes, the court said his rights were violated - we get it.  

That doesn't change the fact that he's a terrorist - you guy's have said that we have to separate his actions from the way Canada treated the situation.  IOW, he is a terrorist who the court said had his rights abused.  Please get a new schtick.

[Omni]

Just now, Hal 9000 said:

Yes, the court said his rights were violated - we get it.  

That doesn't change the fact that he's a terrorist - you guy's have said that we have to separate his actions from the way Canada treated the situation.  IOW, he is a terrorist who the court said had his rights abused.  Please get a new schtick.

No, he was a child soldier, not a terrorist. And you just not get that that's not necessarily my opinion, but the opinion of international and Canadian law. Please try to keep up because repeating the same facts continuously becomes laborious. 

[Charlie]

12 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

Lets sort this out, his entire family are admitted terrorists.  Mom and Dad sent him to terrorist school.  He is seen on video making bombs, He was caught on a battlefield in Afghanistan with another person (killed) and plenty of spent ammo.  He has admitted to killing a US solider and commented that that was the best day of his life.  In recent interviews, he nearly fesses up again that he did it.  

Now, not only does common sense dictate that he's a terrorist, your "gut feeling" should also tell you that he's a terrorist.  It's not as complicated as you make it out to be.  I'll let you in on a secret, regardless of what a court found...OJ Simpson is a murderer - that's right!  My common sense and gut feeling tell me so - a court finding him not guilty, did not complicate my belief.

My issue now, is wondering how the school system can fail so many people and render them helpless to use common sense.   

Another way of looking at it is that the courts had access to all the above information and much more. But they still didn't convict him. Probably because, there wasn't enough proof against him. 

A more ethical question is that should we punish a person if there is a 50% probability that he is a terrorist? What about 80% probability? What about 99% probability? Or going one step further, should we punish a person if we suspect that he might turn out to be terrorist even though he hasn't committed a crime yet? You see this is a slippery slope. 

[Hal 9000]

6 minutes ago, Omni said:

No, he was a child soldier, not a terrorist. And you just not get that that's not necessarily my opinion, but the opinion of international and Canadian law. Please try to keep up because repeating the same facts continuously becomes laborious. 

Well, again if he was a child solider, what army? 

[Omni]

1 minute ago, Hal 9000 said:

Well, again if he was a child solider, what army? 

The relevant point here is "child". Which is waht he was when the US attacked.

[cannuck]

5 hours ago, Peter F said:

So? Sgt Spears was there conducting military operations against who? why non-soldiers of course. It doesn't matter one little bit that Khadr was not a soldier. He was there. He was in a group that the US was conducting military operations against - be they solidiers or non soldiers, or legal combatants or illegal combatants.  Sgt Spear died of wounds suffered in that battle. He wasn't there by accident or happenstance. He was there because the USofA sent him there with great purpose and resolve to engage the enemy in combat and defeat them. 

Sgt. Spears, the rest of the US, Canadian, Australian, British, etc. forces were part of a UN Security Council approved effort to engage those who attacked the US in 9/11 - expressly to eliminate the foundation of terrorism that was threatening several UN countries and thus world peace and security - and they were doing so at the invitation of and co-operation with the legitimate government of Afghanistan.  The Taliban and Al Queda - for whom the Khadr's voluntarily left their adopted nation ( to go to a country NOT of their origin but one of their terrorist group's sites of invasion of another sovereign state - clearly violating their sworn Oath of Allegiance as naturalized citizens).   Any attempt to legitimize or excuse what they were doing as being "soldiers" or "defenders" is purely BS.

I might once again point out that CANADA had its citizens fighting on behalf of the alliance forces in defense of the peace and security of many other nations without the balls to stand up to the same terrorists they are now being attacked by.   The Khadrs may have killed some Americans, but they could just as easily have been attacking  Canadian forces.   Trying to hide this behind the "child soldier" defense is similarly disgusting.  The little crapbag was not forced into this situation, he went by all accounts extremely willingly and knowledgeable (and thoroughly trained) about what his purpose was.

Deportation is far too good for the surviving Khadrs, a firing squad would be far more appropriate.

[Omni]

12 minutes ago, cannuck said:

Deportation is far too good for the surviving Khadrs, a firing squad would be far more appropriate.

We stopped court murdering people 55 years ago. Don't like it, move.

Saudi Arabia might appeal to you.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Omni

[Hal 9000]

35 minutes ago, Omni said:

The relevant point here is "child". Which is waht he was when the US attacked.

No, the relevant point is "solider".  For your sake, I'll use the word child, but the question is; was he a "solider"?  If so, for whom? 

[Omni]

6 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

No, the relevant point is "solider".  For your sake, I'll use the word child, but the question is; was he a "solider"?  If so, for whom? 

No, with regard to legal matters, the relevant word is "child"

[cannuck]

34 minutes ago, Omni said:

We stopped court murdering people 55 years ago. Don't like it, move.

Saudi Arabia might appeal to you.

I happen to like KSA a great deal - mostly because crime is simply not tolerated.   When I get off of the airplane in Riyadh and i see the sign the "the penalty for dealing drugs is death", I definitely feel comfortable.   I understand that when you want to make love to terrorists you feel some sort of tug at your heartstrings, but when you have know people and families who have been at the mercy of terrorists you might actually understand why there is really no other good solution for them.

Funny:  the left fringe of society gets all upset about suggesting a fitting end for someone who has freely chosen to kill as many people as they can with the most destructive weapons they can fashion, but then has absolutely no problem with murdering innocent Canadian children before they are even borne.

Edited July 13, 2017 by cannuck

[Omni]

1 minute ago, cannuck said:

When I get off of the airplane in Riyadh and i see the sign the "the penalty for dealing drugs is death",

You are a scary man if you are comfortable with that. Have you ever been to a stoning? 

[cannuck]

1 minute ago, Omni said:

You are a scary man if you are comfortable with that. Have you ever been to a stoning? 

No, and I haven't been stoned either (in either sense).   Ever been to an abortion clinic?????

Edited July 13, 2017 by cannuck

[Hal 9000]

12 minutes ago, Omni said:

No, with regard to legal matters, the relevant word is "child"

I think what you're trying to avoid is the fact that he wasn't part of any army, which negates  the fact that he was a solider...now, if he wasn't a solider, then common sense and reason would tell us that he wasn't a child solider.  Now, if he wasn't a child solider, then he could be only one of two things...an outright terrorist or a run of the mill murderer.

[Omni]

55 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

I think what you're trying to avoid is the fact that he wasn't part of any army, which negates  the fact that he was a solider...now, if he wasn't a solider, then common sense and reason would tell us that he wasn't a child solider.  Now, if he wasn't a child solider, then he could be only one of two things...an outright terrorist or a run of the mill murderer.

All that drivel simply to try and deflect from the fact he was a child? Try a little harder.

[Omni]

1 hour ago, cannuck said:

No, and I haven't been stoned either (in either sense).   Ever been to an abortion clinic?????

So stoning is OK, abortion is not?

[Spiderfish]

5 hours ago, dialamah said:

Did not the courts find he'd been tortured?  Did they just take his word for it without evidence? 

No actually they didnt.  According to a motion to suppress ruling by military judge Patrick Parrish, various interrogation techniques were used on Khadr, but it was ruled that there was no credible evidence that Khadr had been tortured as alleged, and that his confession was gained after it was revealed that Americans had discovered a videotape of Khadr and others making IED's.