Native complaints about Canada's 150th

[Guest]

1 minute ago, jacee said:

If you want an accounting of how they use their money, check any FN website.

Doing anything to them against their wishes, without their consent, is just not going to happen.

When you say "join the rest of us", do you mean give up their traditional territories and their Aboriginal and treaty rights?

That's not happening.

No, I meant live properly and well.  Traditional territories and their Aboriginal and treaty rights don't help when you're sniffing glue.

Nobody said anything about against any wishes.  I'm for convincing, not forcing. 

It is happening.  There is no doubt whatsoever that remote native cultures will eventually die out.  The question is, how many individuals do you want to suffer and die with them.

[jacee]

20 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

And where again does the UN recognize 'cultural genocide'?

It doesn't. Genocide is genocide. 

"The drafters of the 1948 Genocide Conventionconsidered the use of the term, but later dropped it from their consideration.^[4][5][6] The legal definition of genocide is unspecific about the exact way in which genocide is committed, only stating that it is destruction with the intent to destroy a racial, religious, ethnic or national group as such.^[7]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_genocide

'Cultural' genocide is a term chosen by the TRC/churches to make it more palatable to Canadians.

Genocide is genocide. It is attempting to destroy them as groups, along with any legal and land rights they have.

[DogOnPorch]

How much native blood does one need to have to be a native?

If the answer is "ANY", then a lot of Old Stock Canadians are at least a BIT Native. The first "White Woman" didn't arrive in this neck of British Columbia until 1910. You can bet your Scottish Great Uncle Ernie knew a (few) comely Native lass(es). 

 

[Accountability Now]

9 minutes ago, jacee said:

It doesn't. Genocide is genocide. 

So if the UN sees it all as Genocide then why haven't they stated this as a genocide. Perhaps....just maybe...your side embellishes a tad? Lol.

 

13 minutes ago, jacee said:

'Cultural' genocide is a term chosen by the TRC/churches to make it more palatable to Canadians.

 Yet the UN doesn't use the term. Interesting. The TRC didn't use this term to make it more palatable, they used to to make it more severe. They also knew they would not be taken serious in the least if they went for the full genocide tag. That is why you should stop using it. At least there is opportunity for discussion when you use cultural genocide.

[Accountability Now]

10 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

How much native blood does one need to have to be a native?

My brother got his Metis card and we are like 1/64th native. Once you prove you have some lineage and are willing to identify as Metis then you are in. I haven't fully gone that route yet but may just do it if this native push continues.  Under the new court ruling, Metis are entitled to the same rights as FN.  This really pissed off the band leaders as they know there would be people like me who are now taking from their pot!

[DogOnPorch]

The product being sold today is that Edward Cornwallis was some sort of scalp hunting monster. History tells us a different tale...oddly enough. But the truth does not fit the desired narrative of evil colonial storm troopers scalping innocent Native women and children....and dogs and chickens.

So where's that eraser? 

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, Accountability Now said:

My brother got his Metis card and we are like 1/64th native. Once you prove you have some lineage and are willing to identify as Metis then you are in. I haven't fully gone that route yet but may just do it if this native push continues.  Under the new court ruling, Metis are entitled to the same rights as FN.  This really pissed off the band leaders as they know there would be people like me who are now taking from their pot!

 

Yes...not quite Native enough...some poor "half breeds".

Don't you just love Canada's overt racism?

[Argus]

9 hours ago, jacee said:

Seems pretty important to me, for the youth.

There are about 1500 people on that reserve. How many towns of that size buy zamboni machines?

Especially when the big complaint was not enough housing.

[Argus]

8 hours ago, jacee said:

You cannot forcibly move people.

There is no reason for them to be where they are. And if you build them a nice village-like housing project in the exburbs of a city they'd have a hard time whining in future if they refused and stayed on their reserves - where they complain about the water, housing and lack of jobs.

[Boges]

Imagine the carbon footprint of people that live on these remote reserves. Why aren't environmentalists speaking out against such wasteful use of natural resources. 

[Wilber]

27 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Yes...not quite Native enough...some poor "half breeds".

Don't you just love Canada's overt racism?

Being 1/64th Jewish in Nazi Germany could get you sent to a gas chamber. Same logic, different outcome.

[jacee]

2 hours ago, bcsapper said:

No, I meant live properly and well.  Traditional territories and their Aboriginal and treaty rights don't help when you're sniffing glue.

Nobody said anything about against any wishes.  I'm for convincing, not forcing. 

It is happening.  There is no doubt whatsoever that remote native cultures will eventually die out.  The question is, how many individuals do you want to suffer and die with them.

They've already endured many heinous forms of 'convincing', and persisted. You and others must stop saying that as it sounds like forced relocation again.

"Traditional territories and their Aboriginal and treaty rights" do help when the government stops stalling and actually settles land claims. That's how other FN communities have started businesses to become self supporting. 

[jacee]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

There are about 1500 people on that reserve. How many towns of that size buy zamboni machines?

Especially when the big complaint was not enough housing.

Mine. Lol 

In fact, all of them I expect, for decades now.

Good grief, Argus.

The rink is the only thing to do in northern communities!

It was a very smart thing to do ... for the kids.

Edited July 6, 2017 by jacee
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[jacee]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

There is no reason for them to be where they are. And if you build them a nice village-like housing project in the exburbs of a city they'd have a hard time whining in future if they refused and stayed on their reserves - where they complain about the water, housing and lack of jobs.

Good luck with that! Lol

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, jacee said:

They've already endured many heinous forms of 'convincing', and persisted. You and others must stop saying that as it sounds like forced relocation again.

"Traditional territories and their Aboriginal and treaty rights" do help when the government stops stalling and actually settles land claims. That's how other FN communities have started businesses to become self supporting. 

Sounds like does not equal.  And I'm of the firm opinion that my solution is better than yours.  I still don't see what the government could have done to make 21st century kids want to stay in Davis Inlet or Appawatiskat.

And in the end, they are going extinct as a culture anyway.  Better to pull a bandaid off quiickly...

[Boges]

5 minutes ago, jacee said:

Good luck with that! Lol

Yep, they should continue to be a drain on the environment and live in places that require large amounts of natural resources to keep them there. How about they live off the land like their ancestors did if those were the good old days? 

[jacee]

8 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Sounds like does not equal.  And I'm of the firm opinion that my solution is better than yours.  I still don't see what the government could have done to make 21st century kids want to stay in Davis Inlet or Appawatiskat.

And in the end, they are going extinct as a culture anyway.  Better to pull a bandaid off quiickly...

You are wrong.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, jacee said:

You are wrong.

Somebody always is.  That's what happens when opinions clash.

[Wilber]

17 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Sounds like does not equal.  And I'm of the firm opinion that my solution is better than yours.  I still don't see what the government could have done to make 21st century kids want to stay in Davis Inlet or Appawatiskat.

And in the end, they are going extinct as a culture anyway.  Better to pull a bandaid off quiickly...

History has shown many times that a culture cannot be destroyed if there is a great enough desire to see it survive. On the other hand, nothing can save a culture if that desire isn't there. A culture isn't in a place, it is in a people, wherever they are.

[jacee]

15 minutes ago, Boges said:

Yep, they should continue to be a drain on the environment and live in places that require large amounts of natural resources to keep them there. How about they live off the land like their ancestors did if those were the good old days? 

Depends if it's been contaminated by the resource industries.

Grassy Narrows, for example, with over 50 years of mercury contamination ... clearcutting, pulp mill, buried contaminants, fish with ugly growths on them.

The trees are gone, the animals are gone, the fish are sick ...

And so are the people, 20% percent of them have Minimata disease from mercury poisoning.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Wilber said:

History has shown many times that a culture cannot be destroyed if there is a great enough desire to see it survive. On the other hand, nothing can save a culture if that desire isn't there. A culture isn't in a place, it is in a people, wherever they are.

Agreed.  There have been hundreds.  They all go in the end.

[Boges]

3 minutes ago, jacee said:

Depends if it's been contaminated by the resource industries.

Grassy Narrows, for example, with over 50 years of mercury contamination ... clearcutting, pulp mill, buried contaminants, fish with ugly growths on them.

The trees are gone, the animals are gone, the fish are sick ...

And so are the people, 20% percent of them have Minimata disease from mercury poisoning.

So that small peninsula is the only place in all of Northern Ontario they can live? 

[jacee]

5 minutes ago, Boges said:

So that small peninsula is the only place in all of Northern Ontario they can live? 

So industry can just contaminate everything and people just have to move out?

How 'bout industry clean up their f'n messes instead of BURYING IT!!

 

[Boges]

1 minute ago, jacee said:

So industry can just contaminate everything and people just have to move out?

How 'bout industry clean up their f'n messes instead of BURYING IT!!

In Googling Grassy Narrows, that appears to be what's happening. But what's so special about that specific part of Northern Ontario? Could it be the economic activity that caused the contamination is the whole reason communities like this even exist? 

Like places in the Far North. If Oil and Gas companies stop exploring up there, where's the economic activity going to come from? No one wants to live up there for pure leisure. 

[jacee]

19 minutes ago, Boges said:

In Googling Grassy Narrows, that appears to be what's happening. But what's so special about that specific part of Northern Ontario? Could it be the economic activity that caused the contamination is the whole reason communities like this even exist? 

Like places in the Far North. If Oil and Gas companies stop exploring up there, where's the economic activity going to come from? No one wants to live up there for pure leisure. 

They were living up there long before the industries! That specific part of Northern Ontario is their traditional land, for thousands of years.

They seldom benefit from industry in their areas - industries bring their own workers, aren't willing to train new ones, won't accommodate cultural needs (fall hunt, mourning times, etc).

Some of that is starting to change ... slowly ... and only because the Supreme Court forced governments and industry to recognize Aboriginal rights to consultation and accommodation about any activity on their traditional lands.

 

Edited July 6, 2017 by jacee