Fire in England

[Topaz]

That was just awful about the fire in an apartment building in England and the fire nearly took over the whole building and others as I noticed that even if the building caught fire at 1am it was still STANDING unlike the WTB,   kinda makes one wonder even more that bombs brought down the WTB.

[DogOnPorch]

How about imagining a fully loaded 767 plowing into it at 300 kts. Is it still standing after that?

[hot enough]

2 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

How about imagining a fully loaded 767 plowing into it at 300 kts. Is it still standing after that?

That would be imagination because it doesn't represent the facts. You've shown that you always have a fanciful imagination. 

The twin towers were designed to take the impact of a fully loaded 707/DC8 flying at 600 mph.

And yes, both the towers withstood what they were designed to withstand. Until they were blown up with US military lab developed nanothermite, which was found in WTC dust. 

Quote

Nano Scale Chemistry Yields Better Explosives

...

At Livermore Laboratory, sol-gel chemistry-the same process used to make aerogels or "frozen smoke" (see S&TR, November/December 1995)—has been the key to creating energetic materials with improved, exceptional, or entirely new properties.
...

"Greater energy densities versus greater power—that's been the traditional trade-off," says Simpson. "With our new process, however, we're mixing at molecular scales, using grains the size of tens to hundreds of molecules. That can give us the best of both worlds-higher energy densities and high power as well."

https://str.llnl.gov/str/RSimpson.html

 

 

[scribblet]

Tenants and resident groups had raised safety concerns for years but the fact that green energy concerns were prioritized over safety tells us a lot.   So here in a nutshell you have the rush to go 'green' compromising safety with horrific results.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/hundreds-still-missing-death-toll-could-soar-following-london-high-rise-fire

"Fears were raised that green energy concerns were prioritized ahead of safety as it emerged that cladding used to make the building more sustainable could have accelerated the fire."

Edited June 15, 2017 by scribblet

[Goddess]

3 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Tenants and resident groups had raised safety concerns for years but the fact that green energy concerns were prioritized over safety tells us a lot.   So here in a nutshell you have the rush to go 'green' compromising safety with horrific results.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/hundreds-still-missing-death-toll-could-soar-following-london-high-rise-fire

"Fears were raised that green energy concerns were prioritized ahead of safety as it emerged that cladding used to make the building more sustainable could have accelerated the fire."

I heard this on the news today, too.  It was similar with the Fort Mac fire - for years, fire safety people were recommending fire-breaks around the town, but Greenpeace stepped in and made a stink about cutting down any trees, so very few fire-breaks.  It'sa miracle that there were no deaths.

This fire - equally horrific.

[eyeball]

Ah, blame the left...I suppose it was only a matter of time.

[SpankyMcFarland]

Theresa May's problems just got a whole lot bigger. There have been concerns about such fires for a long time:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/mar/28/lakanal-house-fire-deaths-prevented

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/14/key-questions-about-the-grenfell-tower-fire

 

 

Edited June 15, 2017 by SpankyMcFarland

[scribblet]

15 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Ah, blame the left...I suppose it was only a matter of time.

Who mentioned the left, only you

[Goddess]

12 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Ah, blame the left...I suppose it was only a matter of time.

It's probably a combination of circumstances.  I think it's good to look at these events and determine how better to handle future ones.

The Fort Mac Fire analysis came out and said that a lack of communication contributed to the late evacuations.  I know someone who worked with the Emergency Response teams up there for the entire time before and after the fires and he said that the day the fires hit the town, May 3, was the day jurisdiction for the fire changed from Provincial to Federal, so ther were no eyes on the ground at the time.  The fire was already burning the Beacon Hill neighborhood before anyone even knew it.

I imagine they will tighten up those loopholes now.

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, scribblet said:

Who mentioned the left, only you

I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were talking about right-wing green concerns.

If that's the case, I'd be looking for causes like government austerity cuts to safety inspections, installation of safety equipment...especially in poorer neighbourhoods.

[DBlow]

In the PR battle May has definitely hurt herself by reportedly visiting Grenfell without talking to any of the victims - a stark contrast to Corbyn's visit.

Labour are proposing requisition of nearby vacant properties (owned as holiday homes by the wealthy) for the victims. 

Edited June 15, 2017 by DBlow

[DogOnPorch]

2 minutes ago, DBlow said:

In the PR battle May has definitely hurt herself by reportedly visiting Grenfell without talking to any of the victims - a stark contrast to Corbyn's visit.

Also senior Labour figures are supporting requisition of nearby vacant properties (owned as holiday homes by the wealthy) for the victims. 

 

Poor old Doctor Zhivago...

[hot enough]

2 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Poor ol

You get caught describing a falsehood, you are corrected on it and you slink off. Do you consider that to be dishonest, Dop.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, hot enough said:

You get caught describing a falsehood, you are corrected on it and you slink off. Do you consider that to be dishonest, Dop.

 

That's right. You've never had a chance to see Doctor Zhivago in your country. I'm sure it's easily found online...book or movie.

[hot enough]

11 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

That's right.

Why won't you address your dishonesty, Dop?

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, hot enough said:

Why won't you address your dishonesty, Dop?

 

I swear I've seen Doctor Zhivago many times.

[hot enough]

4 hours ago, Goddess said:

 It was similar with the Fort Mac fire - for years, fire safety people were recommending fire-breaks around the town, but Greenpeace stepped in and made a stink about cutting down any trees, so very few fire-breaks.

Do you have a source for this, Goddess?

[overthere]

4 hours ago, Goddess said:

I heard this on the news today, too.  It was similar with the Fort Mac fire - for years, fire safety people were recommending fire-breaks around the town, but Greenpeace stepped in and made a stink about cutting down any trees, so very few fire-breaks.  It'sa miracle that there were no deaths.

This fire - equally horrific.

Greenpeace has nothing to do with it.  It would have made no difference at all, unless the fire breaks meant stripping every piece for vegetation or flammable material for perhaps 5 km or so.

 

The FM fire jumped a river valley that is about 2km wide easily.

 

Have you ever witnessed a major fire?  It is pretty shocking how little human efforts can do to influence the fire, much less control it.

[Goddess]

8 minutes ago, overthere said:

Greenpeace has nothing to do with it.  It would have made no difference at all, unless the fire breaks meant stripping every piece for vegetation or flammable material for perhaps 5 km or so.

I think it could be a contributing factor.  Many others up there have mentioned the same thing.  The lack of proper fire-breaks was discussed amongst the emergency crews as a factor.  As I said before, it's probably a combination of factors.

 

8 minutes ago, overthere said:

The FM fire jumped a river valley that is about 2km wide easily.

Yes, I know.  I lived there.

 

8 minutes ago, overthere said:

Have you ever witnessed a major fire?  It is pretty shocking how little human efforts can do to influence the fire, much less control it.

Yes.  I lost my house and my dog in the Fort Mac fire.  My ex was Chief of one of the Emergency Departments before, during and after the fire.

Edited June 15, 2017 by Goddess

[betsy]

This is so harrowing to watch - a video from inside the building on the 23rd floor.   My prayers go to all these folks.....

 

 

 

 

[hot enough]

Here is a good compilation of the fire.

Grenfell Tower: Massive Building Fire In London! - (Compilation)

 

[hot enough]

34 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I think it could be a contributing factor.  Many others up there have mentioned the same thing.  The lack of proper fire-breaks was discussed amongst the emergency crews as a factor.  As I said before, it's probably a combination of factors.

So I guess that means your source is hearsay, Goddess. Good to know. 

[Goddess]

25 minutes ago, hot enough said:

So I guess that means your source is hearsay, Goddess. Good to know. 

I stated these were conversations people in Fort Mac were having, talking about why the fire went so fast.

Do you have links for all of your verbal conversations and experiences?  You'll have to show me how to do that.  Must be some amazing technology.

[hot enough]

7 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I stated these were conversations people in Fort Mac were having, talking about why the fire went so fast.

Do you have links for all of your verbal conversations and experiences?  You'll have to show me how to do that.  Must be some amazing technology.

That's what I asked about, what were your sources for your Green Peace remark. Was it just hearsay? Do you know what hearsay is?

[Goddess]

Greenpeace protests up there all the time, over everything.  Cutting down trees for fire-breaks is just one of the things they protested.  Not all their protests end up on the news - it's an every day occurance in the sands.

I just know  people who work for Syncrude chasing them off the sites.

I'm not sure what your ish is......you dont' believe Greenpeace protests up there?  You don't believe lack of fire-breaks was a factor?  You don't like people discussing possible factors in events?  I didn't mention nanothermite in my comment and you don't like that?  You're just being an arse?