These So-Called "Contradictions" In The Bible.

[betsy]

1 hour ago, marcus said:

Galatians 3:28 ESV / 646 

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

He's talking about Christians!  

[betsy]

1 hour ago, marcus said:

Deuteronomy 32:8 ESV / 609 

When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.

 

There you go - nations have their own borders!

It's not globalization!

Edited September 3, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

1 hour ago, marcus said:

Ruth 1:16-17 ESV / 604 

But Ruth said, “Do not urge me to leave you or to return from following you. For where you go I will go, and where you lodge I will lodge.

Your people shall be my people, and your God my God.

Where you die I will die, and there will I be buried. May the Lord do so to me and more also if anything but death parts me from you.”

 

 

Ruth is an example of a perfect immigrant!  Ruth not only assimilated - she even converted!

She was blessed by the Lord - Ruth's story is a wonderful love story!

Edited September 3, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

1 hour ago, marcus said:

Matthew 25:1-46 ESV / 586 

“Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom. Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps. As the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and slept. ...

 

EHHHH?   What's this got to do with socialism?

 

 

 

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Titus 3:1 ESV / 583 

Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,

 

See that?  Good work.  Not evil work.  We have to be led by our conscience. 

As an example - doctors shouldn't be forced to murder the unborn, or perform euthanasia!

 

 

 

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2 Chronicles 36:1-23 ESV / 573 

The people of the land took Jehoahaz the son of Josiah and made him king in his father's place in Jerusalem. Jehoahaz was twenty-three years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months in Jerusalem. Then the king of Egypt deposed him in Jerusalem and laid on the land a tribute of a hundred talents of silver and a talent of gold. And the king of Egypt made Eliakim his brother king over Judah and Jerusalem, and changed his name to Jehoiakim. But Neco took Jehoahaz his brother and carried him to Egypt. Jehoiakim was twenty-five years old when he began to reign, and he reigned eleven years in Jerusalem. He did what was evil in the sight of the Lord his God. ...

 

EHHHH???  What's this got to do with socialism?

 

 

 

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Genesis 46:28-34 ESV / 572

He had sent Judah ahead of him to Joseph to show the way before him in Goshen, and they came into the land of Goshen. Then Joseph prepared his chariot and went up to meet Israel his father in Goshen. He presented himself to him and fell on his neck and wept on his neck a good while. Israel said to Joseph, “Now let me die, since I have seen your face and know that you are still alive.” Joseph said to his brothers and to his father's household, “I will go up and tell Pharaoh and will say to him, ‘My brothers and my father's household, who were in the land of Canaan, have come to me. And the men are shepherds, for they have been keepers of livestock, and they have brought their flocks and their herds and all that they have.’ ...

 

Ehhhh?  This is irrelevant too!

 

Edited September 3, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

1 hour ago, marcus said:

Here is Jesus on socialism:

Matthew 6:2-4 ESV / 251 helpful votes

“Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others.

Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

 

That's why we shouldn't brag, or talk about the charitable things we do.    People aren't supposed to be forced to give, either! 

Giving must be voluntary!

 

This is the best proof that Christ is not a socialist!

 

2 Corinthians 9

The Cheerful Giver

 

⁶ The point is this: whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully^[a] will also reap bountifully.

 

⁷ Each one must give as he has decided in his heart,

not reluctantly or under compulsion,             

  for God loves a cheerful giver.

Edited September 3, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

2 hours ago, marcus said:

Here is Jesus on socialism:

 

2 Thessalonians 3:10 ESV / 107 helpful votes

For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.

 

No welfare checks to those who aren't willing to work.  Let them starve! You call that socialism? 

Edited September 3, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

2 hours ago, marcus said:

Here is Jesus on socialism:

 

Acts 2:44-45 ESV / 102 helpful votes

And all who believed were together and had all things in common. And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need.

 

Galatians 6:2 ESV / 42 helpful votes

Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

 

2 Corinthians 8:13-15 ESV / 76 helpful votes

For I do not mean that others should be eased and you burdened, but that as a matter of fairness your abundance at the present time should supply their need, so that their abundance may supply your need, that there may be fairness. As it is written, “Whoever gathered much had nothing left over, and whoever gathered little had no lack.”

Acts 4:32-35 ESV / 38 helpful votes

Now the full number of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things that belonged to him was his own, but they had everything in common. And with great power the apostles were giving their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold and laid it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need.

 

They're Christians.....and it's VOLUNTARY!

 

 

 

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Ephesians 4:28 ESV / 54 helpful votes

Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need.

 

Free-loading is not Biblical!

 

 

 

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Matthew 19:21 ESV / 32 helpful votes

Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”

 

That's taken out of context.  Here is the full scenario:

 

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¹⁶ And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

¹⁷ And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

¹⁸ He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

¹⁹ Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

²⁰ The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21 Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”

 

Christ already answered him saying,

"but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."

Jesus didn't say the man has to sell his possessions to enter Heaven.  He has to keep the Commandments.

 

But the man said he'd kept them already, and persisted to ask what more should he do. So Jesus told him that if he would be perfect, to sell his possession and follow Him. 

No one is perfect!  Jesus knew that.  We're not expected to be perfect!

 

 

Socialism is fueled by covetousness, which is against the commandments.

Exodus 20

“You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s.”
 

 

Land-grabbing and confiscating property - wealth distribution - is practically stealing!

 

Exodus 20

“You shall not steal.
 

 

You don't force people into giving! 

The principles of socialism goes against the Scriptures.

 

 

Edited September 3, 2017 by betsy

[marcus]

That was a lot of reaching.

  Quote

 

Titus 3:1 ESV / 583 

Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,

 

Your response:

Quote

 

See that?  Good work.  Not evil work.  We have to be led by our conscience. 

As an example - doctors shouldn't be forced to murder the unborn, or perform euthanasia!

 

That's an amazing interpretation. 

How can a debate happen, when you have such an outrageous interpretation of a sentence, compared to how I see it? 

[betsy]

On 9/3/2017 at 3:46 AM, marcus said:

That was a lot of reaching.

  Quote

 

Titus 3:1 ESV / 583 

Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,

 

Your response:

That's an amazing interpretation. 

How can a debate happen, when you have such an outrageous interpretation of a sentence, compared to how I see it? 

 

How can mine be an outrageous interpretation?  You may be reading it - but you're not looking hard enough!

The verse didn't say, "be ready for every work."    

It says, "be ready for every GOOD work."  Obviously, that's the condition:  GOOD work!

 

How do we know what's good or bad......isn't it through our conscience?   I gave one example - the one that came to mind was about abortion and euthanasia.  Christian doctors have been fighting to reserve their religious right to follow their conscience.  Whatever justification humanists/secularists give to make murder seems right  - to a Christian, it's a grievous sin to commit murder.

 

In a nutshell:

We should help the poor......however,

Giving shouldn't be made compulsory.  That includes rich people, too.   It has to be voluntary.   It has to come from the heart.

Charitable acts should not be made public.  We give not because for the applause and compliments by people.  

We work for a living.  We don't free-load. 

Equality, and helping does not mean to finance someone so he can keep up with the Jones'.    If someone had worked to have luxuries in life - why would we resent his wealth for it?  That's translated to envy.

Do not covet.  

Do not steal.  Even if you're being Robin Hood - it's still stealing.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2017 by betsy

[eyeball]

So would Jesus advise us to listen to our conscience when our leaders and authorities arm, aid and cozy up to bloodthirsty murderous dictators? What would Jesus do? 

[betsy]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

So would Jesus advise us to listen to our conscience when our leaders and authorities arm, aid and cozy up to bloodthirsty murderous dictators? What would Jesus do? 

Conscience is our compass to what's right and wrong.  Pray for guidance.

 

Ecclesiastes 3

⁸ A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

 

Psalm 144:1

Of David. Blessed be the Lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle;

 

Proverbs 20:18

Every purpose is established by counsel: and with good advice make war.
 

Proverbs 24:6

For by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war: and in multitude of counsellers there is safety.

 

Luke 14:31
Or what king on his way to war with another king will not first sit down and consider whether he can engage with ten thousand men the one coming against him with twenty thousand?

 

John 18:36

Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”

 

 

 

[marcus]

1 hour ago, betsy said:

Conscience is our compass to what's right and wrong.  Pray for guidance.

As a Christian Zionist, what does your conscience tell you about this:

 

Edited September 3, 2017 by marcus

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, betsy said:

Conscience is our compass to what's right and wrong.  Pray for guidance.

 

 

I've known precisely what my conscience is for ever since kindergarten. Why on Earth would anyone need to pray for guidance, in the case I presented?  

Edited September 3, 2017 by eyeball

[betsy]

1 hour ago, marcus said:

As a Christian Zionist, what does your conscience tell you about this:

 

I don't know much about it. 

However, Christians are expected to stand beside Israel.

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Protecting-Israel/

 

If I'm not mistaken, the piece of  land in question was taken by Israel after the 6 - day war!   Arab nations attacked Israel....and Israel fought back.  Israel won a decisive victory after 6 days - that land is a spoil of war.  That's the consequence of that war.   It should belong now to Israel.

 

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Prior to the start of the war, attacks conducted against Israel by fledgling Palestinian guerrilla groups based in Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan had increased, leading to costly Israeli reprisals.

In response to the apparent mobilization of its Arab neighbours, early on the morning of June 5, Israel staged a sudden preemptive air assault that destroyed more than 90 percent Egypt’s air force on the tarmac. A similar air assault incapacitated the Syrian air force. Without cover from the air, the Egyptian army was left vulnerable to attack. Within three days the Israelis had achieved an overwhelming victory on the ground, capturing the Gaza Strip and all of the Sinai Peninsula up to the east bank of the Suez Canal.

 

https://www.britannica.com/event/Six-Day-War

 

 

Edited September 3, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

I've known precisely what my conscience is for ever since kindergarten. Why on Earth would anyone need to pray for guidance, in the case I presented?  

Well.....with nations, it's not all that simple.  Depends on what the alternative is, too. 

Look at Iran - they got rid of the Shah (who was said to be a puppet of the USA)....and look what replaced him!

[marcus]

1 hour ago, betsy said:

I don't know much about it. 

However, Christians are expected to stand beside Israel.

Is this unconditional? It doesn't matter what they do?

[betsy]

1 hour ago, marcus said:

Is this unconditional? It doesn't matter what they do?

Yes.

 

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Jews Can Learn From Evangelicals’ Unconditional Love For Israel

 

When one considers the worldwide movement in recent years to delegitimize Israel, one sees that the enemies of Israel are not looking for a debate. Their aim is not to engage or interact – it is to undermine and demonize. Their opposition is not open to reason or good will. In short, their hatred is unconditional.

 

That being the current geo-strategic reality challenging Israel, why should Jews be made uneasy by evangelical Christians’ unconditional love toward Israel – even if they differ with evangelicals on social issues?

 

How better to fight unconditional hatred than with unconditional love? What better weapon against the forces working to delegitimize Israel than tens of millions of passionate and committed people who unequivocally express their love of Israel?

https://christiandailyjournal.com/2017/08/08/jews-can-learn-evangelicals-unconditional-love-israel/

Edited September 3, 2017 by betsy

[marcus]

So your moral and ethical compass allows you to unconditionally support Israel's actions against the Palestinians.

Jesus would not approve. A true Christian would not condone Israel's actions.

 

[Michael Hardner]

26 minutes ago, marcus said:

So your moral and ethical compass allows you to unconditionally support Israel's actions against the Palestinians.

You're asking one person's interpretation here - please be aware of that.  One can support Israel, fully, partially, or not at all and still consider themselves Christian and many do.`

[dialamah]

2 hours ago, betsy said:

Yes.

 

https://christiandailyjournal.com/2017/08/08/jews-can-learn-evangelicals-unconditional-love-israel/

Hmmm .... I don't believe Jesus would say "support a country unconditionally".  That would seem more a politically motivated instruction than a Biblical instruction.

[marcus]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

You're asking one person's interpretation here - please be aware of that.  One can support Israel, fully, partially, or not at all and still consider themselves Christian and many do.`

Yes of course.

There are many different interpretations in all religions. Betsy does not represent all Christians just like a group like ISIS does not represent Muslims or the buddhists in Myanmar do not represent all Buddhists.

 

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, marcus said:

Yes of course.

There are many different interpretations in all religions. Betsy does not represent all Christians just like a group like ISIS does not represent Muslims or the buddhists in Myanmar do not represent all Buddhists.

 

 

....like Susan Atkins didn't represent all Manson Family members...and other apologies.

[betsy]

9 hours ago, dialamah said:

Hmmm .... I don't believe Jesus would say "support a country unconditionally".  That would seem more a politically motivated instruction than a Biblical instruction.

That's why we're supposed to pray for leaders that they may do what is righteous in the eyes of God.  A God-fearing leader (Jew/Christian) wouldn't be making any decision that he knows goes against the Scriptures.

Edited September 4, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

6 hours ago, marcus said:

Yes of course.

There are many different interpretations in all religions. Betsy does not represent all Christians just like a group like ISIS does not represent Muslims or the buddhists in Myanmar do not represent all Buddhists.

 

Well........you have a beef with Israel over settlers.  I showed you why Israel ended up with that land.  It's a spoil of war (which was started by the Arab neighbors).  Why shouldn't Israel keep it?  That's not a biased deduction.  That's just fair.

 

See? Isn't what you're saying an "unconditional support"  for Arab nations who started that war?"  You're my counterpart!

 

No, not all Christians think like me.....anymore than a lot of Christians think homosexual acts, adultery, no-fault divorce, and abortion, are now okay.   There are the relativists, and there are the fundamentalists.....same like any religion, even Islam.

  It's more of the Evangelicals that do.  It's what's in the Scriptures.

 

Edited September 4, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

10 hours ago, marcus said:

So your moral and ethical compass allows you to unconditionally support Israel's actions against the Palestinians.

Jesus would not approve. A true Christian would not condone Israel's actions.

 

Who are you to say who's a true Christian or not.....when you're not even a believer?  You don't even understand enough about the Scriptures - or Jesus' teachings - as shown by your previous posts.   How can that comment be taken as credible?  

 

Edited September 4, 2017 by betsy