Broken Justice

[Argus]

Talking about the absurd delays in our legal system, there is apparently nothing wrong with a judge taking NINE months to deliver a verdict in a sexual assault case. Although the guidelines do say they should try to get their decision in within six months (!?).

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/judge-did-not-violate-accuseds-rights-in-taking-nine-months-for-verdict-court-rules/article35355626/

Edited June 19, 2017 by Argus

[Argus]

You would think that a guy convicted for assaulting police and breaching probation in 2011 would be severely punished, but you would e wrong. And if this same guy was arrested in 2012 with an illegal hand gun and cocaine in his car you would think he would definitely spend a lot of time in jail, but you'd be wrong. You would think if the guy was convicted in 2014 of trafficking and possession of another illegal gun the courts would have lost patience with him - but you'd be wrong.

Isn't it funny how frenzied the Liberals are about gun control, and making sure everything is registered, and making it as hard as possible for people to own firearms, let alone restricted weapons like hand guns, but when actual criminals are found carrying them Liberals shrink in horror from punishing them severely. So why wouldn't they? Certainly this guy didn't see a problem with getting and carrying a hand gun even after 2014, which is why he's wanted by police for murdering two men the other day, and trying to murder another.

He could get WEEKS in jail this time!

But then, this is not just an example of a broken justice system, but also a sterling example of the positive contribution immigration makes to Canada each and every day.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/arrest-warrant-issued-for-suspect-in-double-west-end-homicides

And from the same edition of the paper we have another lovely immigrant success story. Another guy with multiple convictions for violence over multiple years now being charged with murder.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/ottawa-man-charged-with-first-degree-murder-in-march-death

Edited July 27, 2017 by Argus

[Argus]

So once again we have an example of judges making law on their own. This is a particularly ridiculous example of the left wing judicial activism infesting Canada's legal system.  In this one a judge decided that, like natives, black people need special treatment and lower sentences from the courts due to 'racism' even if no racism is demonstrated. Because he's black, the history of racism in Canada and its impact on the poor little scumbag, has to be taken into account so he gets a less severe sentence.

Never mind that 95% of blacks in Canada are not descended from slaves but from immigrant parents who only began to arrive in Canada in the 1970s. It's another example of the old liberal bigotry of low expectations.

"Aww, but he's just a darkie, boys! You can't expect him to act civilized, you know, like a white man!"

That might have been said by an extreme racist, like a member of the KKK, but instead it's the subtext of what the judge and most progressives think about Black people even as they rail against racists! It is to weep, the level of hypocrisy, stupidity and ignorance we see from the Left.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-judge-wont-declare-presumption-that-black-canadians-need-special/

[Centerpiece]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

Never mind that 95% of blacks in Canada are not descended from slaves but from immigrant parents who only began to arrive in Canada in the 1970s. It's another example of the old liberal bigotry of low expectations.

"Aww, but he's just a darkie, boys! You can't expect him to act civilized, you know, like a white man!"

That might have been said by an extreme racist, like a member of the KKK, but instead it's the subtext of what the judge and most progressives think about Black people even as they rail against racists! It is to weep, the level of hypocrisy, stupidity and ignorance we see from the Left.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-judge-wont-declare-presumption-that-black-canadians-need-special/

They call it relativism and you are right....it's back-door racism. Indians and Pakistanis are dark of skin - yet you don't see THEM in the "disproportional" pool. If the media and this judge had a backbone, they'd start addressing the problems in the Black community that are so well known, all you can do is roll your eyes.

[Thinkinoutsidethebox]

On 09/04/2017 at 6:38 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

From your opening statement, it appears the this person was charged, but not convicted. Therefore, he is innocent unless proven guilty by the court. In other words, an innocent man has spent almost five years in custody. I remember the court case of a nurse accused of murdering a number of children at Sick Childrens Hospital. We all knew she was guilty...that is until it was pointed out that she was not even in the Province at the time of at lease two of the murders. She was exonerated. I don't know about you, but should I ever be charged with a crime, I would like to be presumed innocent unless proven guilty in court.

 

"Presumed innocent till proven guilty".... If that's the case why is anyone spending time in jail before thier court date? They should just get a note or call at home stating (We presume you are innocent but there is a bunch of evidence and eyewitness stating you drove a van through a crowd of people so we request your presence at court at 9am may 5th. Thank you, have a nice day.) 

The reason they are are incarcerated is they are presumed guilty, we should stop feeding ourselves this childish crap. 

 

[Queenmandy85]

1 hour ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said:

The reason they are are incarcerated is they are presumed guilty, we should stop feeding ourselves this childish crap. 

Please make this clear to your lawyer if you are ever charged with a crime.

The presumption of innocence is a cornerstone of justice. Or would you rather live with the French system?

 

Edited May 2, 2018 by Queenmandy85

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Please make this clear to your lawyer if you are ever charged with a crime.

The presumption of innocence is a cornerstone of justice. Or would you rather live with the French system?

He's right, though, logically. If we did presume they were innocent they'd be released immediately until trial. Even 'accused' serial killers.

[Thinkinoutsidethebox]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

He's right, though, logically. If we did presume they were innocent they'd be released immediately until trial. Even 'accused' serial killers.

Exactly, call it what it is... They "presume" the crime was committed by a certain individual, that's why he/she is being held. 

A judge or jury should have no bias either way as it's their job to base their decisions on facts, evidence and the law. 

[Thinkinoutsidethebox]

4 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Please make this clear to your lawyer if you are ever charged with a crime.

The lawyer already knows that, I wouldn't be talking to him/her if it wasn't the case. 

4 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The presumption of innocence is a cornerstone of justice.

Nonsense, there would be no justice system if everybody were presumed innocent. 

4 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Or would you rather live with the French system?

The French seem to be getting along just fine, maybe... 

[Argus]

How long does it take to get through the clunky, rusting, barely turning wheels of our legal and judicial system? 

This cop was charged with criminal offenses in 2007. It took until 2012 to clear him - legally. Then he was charged and convicted of various offenses under the police act, and five years later will hear his punishment. Except, of course, he will then certainly appeal whatever he's given. During the entire 11 year period he has been collecting his full salary, now at over $100,000 a year.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/toronto-police-officer-on-paid-suspension-for-11-years-could-finally-be-fired/ar-AAycMCv?ocid=spartanntp

[Michael Hardner]

Canadians ignore basics like service costs, and service levels.   For example, we are in the middle of an Ontario election and I haven't heard a single story about 'Code Zero' (no ambulance available) in Hamilton.

Googling it I found a single reference from the Liberal (!) candidate for Hamilton mountain: https://www.thespec.com/news-story/8629187-riding-profile-hamilton-mountain/

Reasonable people from all points on the political compass need to create an online public independent of government and workers associations to advocate for users of these services: the justice system, the healthcare system should be priorities. 

 

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Canadians ignore basics like service costs, and service levels.   For example, we are in the middle of an Ontario election and I haven't heard a single story about 'Code Zero' (no ambulance available) in Hamilton.

Googling it I found a single reference from the Liberal (!) candidate for Hamilton mountain: https://www.thespec.com/news-story/8629187-riding-profile-hamilton-mountain/

We have had a number of code zeros in Ottawa. It's not even unusual anymore.  I haven't heard anything but the most generalized "We will put massive amounts of money into improving health care" sort of promises from anyone. 

Ambulance service, btw, is a municipal responsibility since the costs were downloaded from the province. Of course, municipal elections are starting too and I still haven't heard a word about it.

On the provincial level, no one is discussing the justice system or its costs or delays or how to fix it. Such big, complicated issues are not the sorts of things politicians prefer to deal with, especially during elections.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Argus

[Michael Hardner]

Thank you for the information.  

I would submit that we should force all public organizations to publish service levels and costs, and possibly create discussion pages where nonymous discussion can happen.

[Machjo]

On 4/9/2017 at 11:59 AM, Argus said:

So the courts have released a murderer because of the colossal incompetence of the judicial system in bringing him to trial. He's been waiting trial for 56 months now, four and a half years, for he brutal slaughter of his wife, but now he can walk free. Why did it take so long? Why was a man in jail for 56 damn months without getting a damn trial?

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/montreal-man-wont-be-tried-for-his-wifes-death-because-its-taken-too-long-to-bring-the-case-to-trial

And why has nobody done anything about this problem? Let me quote from myself on this subject back in 2008

The real problem which the supporters of the legal system refuse to acknowledge is that the system is already broken. It should not take a year to hold a trial for a common crime with mountains of evidence. Most simple crimes should be disposed of within days of arrest. Justice should be swift and certain. In our case it is neither. When "the rule of law" perpetrates injustice then there is something wrong and needs addressing. It isn't mere emotionalism or thirst for vengeance. The law should, at its core, address the fundamental justice of a case. Instead it addresses often ideologically based interpretations of the language in laws without regard to the justice of a finding.

We have a tremendously expensive legal process which wastes massive amounts of time on trivially important things, and is peopled by people who, often enough are rewarded for delaying things. Certainly none is punished for doing so. 

You know what two precious days of court time were being used for in Ottawa last week? For the taxpayer funded defense lawyer of a Somali kidnapper to plead a constitutional case that the phone calls he made from Somalia to a Canadian journalist's family demanding ransom should not have been listened to or recorded by the government without warrants. Seriously! He is suggesting that Somali criminals, and presumably any other criminals and terrorists around the world, should have their privacy protected by the Charter of Rights. And we're paying for this in terms of his salary, the costs of the court and its employees, and the salary of the Crown. 

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/somali-kidnapper-had-no-right-to-expect-ransom-demands-were-private-crown

Whatever happened to the presumption of innocence? He might have murdered his wife, but isn't the point of a trial to determine that very question? If you can already decide his guilt, then may I propose we stop wasting money on the Canadian judiciary. far more efficient that way, no?

[Michael Hardner]

16 minutes ago, Machjo said:

Whatever happened to the presumption of innocence? He might have murdered his wife, but isn't the point of a trial to determine that very question? If you can already decide his guilt, then may I propose we stop wasting money on the Canadian judiciary. far more efficient that way, no?

Are you actually defending what has happened here ?  Somebody waiting 56 months without trial is ok ?

[Argus]

This story caught my eye while I was reading the BBC. It's about a guy high on cocaine attacking an ice cream truck with a sword. Hardly of earth shattering importance. But novel. Why am I posting it here? Because this happened on July 1. It's now August 3. And he was sentenced yesterday to two years and eight months in jail.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-45060821

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

 And he was sentenced yesterday to two years and eight months in jail.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-45060821

Canadian complacency should be harnessed as an energy source.

[Argus]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Canadian complacency should be harnessed as an energy source.

We have  a lazy national media. Why aren't the media going into ERs in France, Germany, Sweden, Belgium, or wherever, to compare? Why aren't they talking about how long trials take in other countries? Why aren't they showing us how things work in other countries? Without a basis of comparison it's hard for Canadians to really understand how much of a problem there is.

[Michael Hardner]

Because they have zero imagination and can only compare everything to the US.

[bush_cheney2004]

Because Canadian media prefers to direct most of its attention span at the United States...to keep feeding the neurosis.

[Argus]

51 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Because they have zero imagination and can only compare everything to the US.

It's not just that. They buy video stories at a cut rate from the US networks to show instead of paying an actual reporter to report on Canadian news. As for print media, how many even have international reporters any more?

Edited August 3, 2018 by Argus

[Hates politicians]

If it was a politician he killed it would'nt have taken very long to go to trial

[Centerpiece]

On 4/9/2017 at 1:05 PM, Michael Hardner said:

If your example was a blonde Swedish guy then it would be equally ridiculous.

The way you handle problems is: you assess that there is indeed a problem, you collect information, you propose and try solutions.

Swedes and Somali have nothing to do with our justice problem... You implied that they were with your example.  

It's not my fault that you muddy your arguments by bringing your despised foreign menace into it.  Improve your communication and don't shoot the messenger.

Since this board is for opinions, I can't help but express mine. You're deflecting/ignoring the very valid point that Argus raised and the very valid example of waste that he used. You've let your personal history disliking Argus' positions on immigration (and his dislike of yours) "muddy" this serious issue. Your replies can be sanctimoniously judgmental (I used pompous it describe it previously). It can usually be taken with a grain of salt but becomes tiresome when it does nothing to advance discourse. Just my opinion of course.

[Centerpiece]

On 8/3/2018 at 12:07 PM, Argus said:

We have  a lazy national media. Why aren't the media going into ERs in France, Germany, Sweden, Belgium, or wherever, to compare? Why aren't they talking about how long trials take in other countries? Why aren't they showing us how things work in other countries? Without a basis of comparison it's hard for Canadians to really understand how much of a problem there is.

Not to incur any thread drift but I'll throw abortion in there as well. They've done zero to show how almost all western countries have had mature conversations and arrived at legislation that has put the issue to bed. Your whole post is one of my pet peeves that goes to the heart of journalistic integrity. I hope it is laziness. After all, what other possible reason could there be?  

[Penny]

On 8/3/2018 at 5:47 PM, Argus said:

This story caught my eye while I was reading the BBC. It's about a guy high on cocaine attacking an ice cream truck with a sword. Hardly of earth shattering importance. But novel. Why am I posting it here? Because this happened on July 1. It's now August 3. And he was sentenced yesterday to two years and eight months in jail.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-45060821

Interesting read, thanks!