GostHacked Posted April 17, 2017 Report Share Posted April 17, 2017 (edited) On 4/12/2017 at 7:10 PM, Michael Hardner said: Taxme, we need to take this to a relevant thread: Actually it is relevant here. The pretext to get into Iraq is the same rhetoric we are hearing today and the last few years with Syria. It's related and very important knowing the failed intelligence that got the US / NATO into Iraq in the first place. Retraction .. the Israel thing does not really have to do with this, but in a way it does. Whatever Israel wants it will get the US to do it. Edited April 17, 2017 by GostHacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted April 18, 2017 Report Share Posted April 18, 2017 17 hours ago, GostHacked said: Actually it is relevant here. The pretext to get into Iraq is the same rhetoric we are hearing today and the last few years with Syria. It's related and very important knowing the failed intelligence that got the US / NATO into Iraq in the first place. So if I understand your logic, since intelligence, which was, let's face it, twisted by politicians, was incorrect once before, we should conclude that intelligence reports are always wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted April 18, 2017 Report Share Posted April 18, 2017 On 4/7/2017 at 0:36 PM, -1=e^ipi said: How do we know Assad did the gas attack and not the 'moderate rebels'? Where is the evidence? Because the moderate rebels have no air force, or means to drop this or any type of weapon. That narrows the field of villains a lot, wouldn't you say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted April 18, 2017 Report Share Posted April 18, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Argus said: So if I understand your logic, since intelligence, which was, let's face it, twisted by politicians, was incorrect once before, we should conclude that intelligence reports are always wrong? No it means more scrutiny with regards to what they put forth because they have lied before. Remember Powell at the UN holding that little vial. Now all of what they claimed was 100% false with regards to Iraq. So if you want to give them the benefit of the doubt, that is to your detriment. Fool me once ..... Edited April 18, 2017 by GostHacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted April 18, 2017 Report Share Posted April 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Argus said: So if I understand your logic, since intelligence, which was, let's face it, twisted by politicians, was incorrect once before, we should conclude that intelligence reports are always wrong? You are not this naive. That says it all about you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted April 18, 2017 Report Share Posted April 18, 2017 1 hour ago, GostHacked said: No it means more scrutiny with regards to what they put forth because they have lied before. Remember Powell at the UN holding that little vial. Now all of what they claimed was 100% false with regards to Iraq. So if you want to give them the benefit of the doubt, that is to your detriment. Fool me once ..... So we need to do more research to determine if Bashar al Assad is slaughtering people in Iran? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted April 18, 2017 Report Share Posted April 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Argus said: So we need to do more research to determine if Bashar al Assad is slaughtering people in Iran? Don't play dumb. If a friend told you some lies, how inclined are you to believe that friend in the future? Assad is not in Iran, he is in Syria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted April 18, 2017 Report Share Posted April 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Argus said: So we need to do more research to determine if Bashar al Assad is slaughtering people in Iran? What are you talking about?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted April 18, 2017 Report Share Posted April 18, 2017 1 hour ago, GostHacked said: Don't play dumb. If a friend told you some lies, how inclined are you to believe that friend in the future? Assad is not in Iran, he is in Syria. But we were talking about Syria. You said The pretext to get into Iraq is the same rhetoric we are hearing today and the last few years with Syria Everyone tells lies, even if small white lies. Or they say things they believe which don't happen to be true. You do that a lot yourself. Does that mean you should ignore everything they say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted April 18, 2017 Report Share Posted April 18, 2017 On 4/17/2017 at 6:43 PM, hot enough said: That is laughable. It's one thing to try and lamely defend Afghanistan as not a war crime, which it is, but Iraq. For a man who claims he is all about the science, you should already know that chemical wpns are included in with the WMD's ....you can goggle that shit if you want to..... Also i have already debunked your myth about Afghanistan, or do i get your lecture on when steel melts again.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted April 18, 2017 Report Share Posted April 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, Army Guy said: For a man who claims he is all about the science, you should already know that chemical wpns are included in with the WMD's ....you can goggle that shit if you want to..... Also i have already debunked your myth about Afghanistan, or do i get your lecture on when steel melts again.... The really odd thing is, Army Guy, you know you are not being honest with me or yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 12 hours ago, overthere said: Because the moderate rebels have no air force, or means to drop this or any type of weapon. That narrows the field of villains a lot, wouldn't you say? And how do we know the weapon was dropped from a plane? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 13 hours ago, Argus said: But we were talking about Syria. You said The pretext to get into Iraq is the same rhetoric we are hearing today and the last few years with Syria Everyone tells lies, even if small white lies. Or they say things they believe which don't happen to be true. You do that a lot yourself. Does that mean you should ignore everything they say? It is the same rhetoric. Sure people tell lies, but those lies resulted in a power vacuum in Iraq along with thousands of service men and women killed in the line of 'duty' based on lies. I don't know anyone who would be happy to know their sons, daughters, monthers and fathers are dead based on total bullshit intelligence regarding Iraq. The pretext IS the same. Accusing others, gathering 'evidence' then eventually we will find out it was all bullshit. How many lies do you accept before you say ' hay this needs to stop' ....... ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 On 4/18/2017 at 11:52 PM, -1=e^ipi said: And how do we know the weapon was dropped from a plane? Do you think it was a complete coincidence that a major air strike happened at the same time all those children killed themselves with sarin? Must have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 7 minutes ago, overthere said: Do you think it was a complete coincidence that a major air strike happened at the same time all those children killed themselves with sarin? Must have been. Dealing with sarin: Japan http://static.gulfnews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1475297!/image/2945248116.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_460346/2945248116.jpg Dealing with sarin: Syria https://media.almasdarnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/1-24.jpg Impact crater from 'air strike' https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2017/04/05/18/syria-chemical-attack5.jpg That's a 2000lb JDAM in the crater...right? We're all being played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 2 hours ago, overthere said: Do you think it was a complete coincidence that a major air strike happened at the same time all those children killed themselves with sarin? Must have been. Maybe the Syrian government dropped gas. Maybe they accidentally hit a stash of gas that an Islamist group was stockpiling. Or maybe some 'rebels' decided to release gas after the air attack to frame the Syrian government in order to try to get the Americans involved. I don't know which is true and which is false. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 (edited) 48 minutes ago, -1=e^ipi said: Maybe the Syrian government dropped gas. Maybe they accidentally hit a stash of gas that an Islamist group was stockpiling. Or maybe some 'rebels' decided to release gas after the air attack to frame the Syrian government in order to try to get the Americans involved. I don't know which is true and which is false. Rockets/artillery shells tend to be the ideal critters to deploy actual sarin. The spin during the rocket's/shell's flight mixes the precursors. To me, that appears to me to be a Grad missile carcass sitting in its hole. A search for Grad missile craters should provide some convincing comparisons. But, instead, we are to believe this is the result of some air strike from a MiG or Sukhoi... But as you allude...anything can be staged. What to believe? What I do know is that Assad had the ability to make near-pure sarin before Obama and the Russians apparently removed all chemical weapons and their precursors from Syria...cha, cha, cha. Sarin can enter the body in a variety of ways...including right through one's skin. Just a tiny amount will do the trick. Yet we see rescuers with bare skin and dust filters warding off the sarin's effects (which, let's face it...few folks understand)...our own incredulity should make us ask some hard questions as to what we're actually seeing.............meh. Easier to blame Assad. Edited April 20, 2017 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 1 hour ago, -1=e^ipi said: Maybe the Syrian government dropped gas. Maybe they accidentally hit a stash of gas that an Islamist group was stockpiling. Or maybe some 'rebels' decided to release gas after the air attack to frame the Syrian government in order to try to get the Americans involved. I don't know which is true and which is false. That must be it. I bet the Joos set it all up, they are always the first suspect in these things. Or maybe that murderous bastard Assad did it, as he has in the past on several occasions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 4 hours ago, DogOnPorch said: Dealing with sarin: Japan http://static.gulfnews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1475297!/image/2945248116.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_460346/2945248116.jpg Dealing with sarin: Syria https://media.almasdarnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/1-24.jpg Because we all know that the tools and protective gear and standard hazmat procedures available in one of the world's most advanced nations is exactly the same as what's available in a third world country in a city that's been under siege for years. 4 hours ago, DogOnPorch said: Impact crater from 'air strike' https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2017/04/05/18/syria-chemical-attack5.jpg That's a 2000lb JDAM in the crater...right? Do you know what the crater from a barrel bomb looks like? Seems to me the Syrians have been using a lot of unconventional ordnance not comparable to what the US has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 2 hours ago, overthere said: Or maybe that murderous bastard Assad did it, as he has in the past on several occasions. The west doesn't seem to have a problem with Erdogan or King Salman. At least Assad doesn't behead women for shopping without a male escourt or throw gay people of buildings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 8 hours ago, Argus said: Because we all know that the tools and protective gear and standard hazmat procedures available in one of the world's most advanced nations is exactly the same as what's available in a third world country in a city that's been under siege for years. Do you know what the crater from a barrel bomb looks like? Seems to me the Syrians have been using a lot of unconventional ordnance not comparable to what the US has. Of course Japan has the right gear. You don't get the point: sarin kills. It goes right through the skin. Blasting it with water and "washing it off" with your bare hands ain't gonna work...those rescue workers would all be dead or doing the funky chicken. But they're clearly alive. Shitty sarin? At what point is it no longer a sarin attack...? Why are we upset again?? If you think that hole in the road is from a barrel bomb...well, not much I can do. Barrel bombs are really big...that's the crater the media/"rebels" have been claiming is the source of the fuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 (edited) 31 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: But they're clearly alive. Shitty sarin? At what point is it no longer a sarin attack...? Why are we upset again?? Because it is OK to kill 500,000 Syrians with firearms, IEDs, artillery shells, tank munitions, mines, rockets, bombs, missiles, grenades, Molotov cocktails, and mortars, but gosh darn it, the world will not just stand by and let Syrians kill more of each other with nasty chemical weapons....that just crosses "the line " ! It's a...ummmm....war crime !! Quote If you think that hole in the road is from a barrel bomb...well, not much I can do. Barrel bombs are really big...that's the crater the media/"rebels" have been claiming is the source of the fuss. Agreed...not a barrel bomb. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE68wf2Qimg Edited April 21, 2017 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 6 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Because it is OK to kill 500,000 Syrians with firearms, IEDs, artillery shells, tank munitions, mines, rockets, bombs, missiles, grenades, Molotov cocktails, and mortars, but gosh darn it, the world will not just stand by and let Syrians kill more of each other with nasty chemical weapons....that just crosses "the line " ! It's a...ummmm....war crime !! Agreed...not a barrel bomb. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE68wf2Qimg It's not as if Allepo was rendered unlivable for the next 200 years by VX agent. As for "shitty sarin"...why use it at all? If "punishment" was the reason for Assad apparently using the stuff....why not get really vindictive and napalm/thermite the guilty until they're all crispy fried. Sends the same message...doesn't alert the media...actually works as intended when you drop it....and it has been done numerous times already. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zocHfxnTn0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 On 4/21/2017 at 8:34 AM, DogOnPorch said: It's not as if Allepo was rendered unlivable for the next 200 years by VX agent. As for "shitty sarin"...why use it at all? If "punishment" was the reason for Assad apparently using the stuff....why not get really vindictive and napalm/thermite the guilty until they're all crispy fried. Sends the same message...doesn't alert the media...actually works as intended when you drop it....and it has been done numerous times already. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zocHfxnTn0 Assad believes that when it comes to murdering his own women and children, variety is the spice of life. And nothing demoralizes fighters like watching their kids get slaughtered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 On 4/20/2017 at 6:52 PM, -1=e^ipi said: The west doesn't seem to have a problem with Erdogan or King Salman. At least Assad doesn't behead women for shopping without a male escourt or throw gay people of buildings. The West doesn't have a problem with Erdogan??? LOL. And the Saudis have not yet been a major source of instability for their region. It is always repellent to see people conflate one horror with another. On your scale of repulsive behaviour, gassing children is better than beheadings? Oh man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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