Quran have been attacked

[hot enough]

22 minutes ago, betsy said:

and in this status update

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/profile/1432-betsy/?status=10275&type=status

you seem to be tying up the millions of death to Christians - it's not clear why you keep bringing up the 400 millions of Muslim deaths.

One does not 'tie up one to something, unless it is a post, a wagon, ... . In that status update, I pointed out a top Evangelical Christian minister's [Billy Graham] plumping for a war crime, causing the potential death of a million or so innocent Vietnamese, which is murder, which you denied was part of Evangelical Christianity.

[Altai]

17 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Thats a good question Altay......one that is complicated with the fact that Syria is being protected by Russia which means the west is restricted on it's actions.....So is the west responsible for not taking action, Sure it is....could it have done more, sure it could have.....The west is not even close to being perfect in any matter that we have talked about.....

But if we in the west are able to stand up and take some of the blame for the Syrian problem, the rest of the planet has to stand up as well.....and when i refer to the west, it includes Turkey as well....  

You can call them what ever you want, they identify themselves as muslims, they claim their actions are for their religion......They have taken your religion and perverted it into something else, Does that not make you mad ? does it not make you want to stand up and say "enough" and hunt these scumbags down....in the name of your religion.....i mean we have seen Islamic countries place death threats to others for drawing Allah, or burning the Quran.....why can you stop these people that bring shame to your religion ? ......

Russia is not a Muslim country. So my point was your "Muslims are also killing Muslims" claim. This is a disgusting attempt to justify Western murders. So  you cant get rid of the responsiblity telling "we did nothing but terrorists did". You are supporting the terrorists. You remind me a US commander who made a press conference yesterday and said "ISIS is also killing civlians" and all the journalists was shocked at his words while he was trying to defend bombing a school recently in Syria which was full of civilians.


Rest of your post have nothing with this topic and my question, we have discussed these things many times in different topics. If you want to discuss, start another topic. 

Edited March 30, 2017 by Altai

[Army Guy]

Afghanistan, conflict.....roughly 500,000 civilian cas .....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan_(2001–2014)

Iraq , 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

No where does it even come close to 4 million as you stated......even when you add both conflicts up.....

[betsy]

7 minutes ago, hot enough said:

One does not 'tie up one to something, unless it is a post, a wagon, ... . In that status update, I pointed out a top Evangelical Christian minister's [Billy Graham] plumping for a war crime, causing the potential death of a million or so innocent Vietnamese, which is murder, which you denied was part of Evangelical Christianity.

Your opinion isn't worth anything in a serious discussion.   For all I know you could've misunderstood your source - it's highly likely since we already can see you've got problems with comprehension.  Who knows, maybe you're simply into fabrication too. 

Take a lesson from Army Guy....he supported his claim.

You need something credible to support your claim.

Edited March 30, 2017 by betsy

[-1=e^ipi]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

In the last couple centuries, democratic countries adopted Constitutions which guarantee basic freedoms like freedom of expression, freedom of religion, freedom of association.    I am thankful to live in a country which still respects these fundamental freedoms.

Canada doesn't have freedom of expression. See section 1 of the charter and all of our 'hate speech' laws.

[hot enough]

10 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I wanted to pass the courses, and using Wiki was an automatic fail, so yes, I didn't use Wiki. No one did.

 

A college student, who speaks, reads and writes three languages would sit quiet while a professor told her not to use certain information. That is the antithesis of science. You bring info, you defend info. That is how science works. 

Do you think there has ever been a professor who said don't use World Book Encyclopedia, or any of the other encyclopedias?

Quote

I know it may be a stretch for you, but not everything in the world is tied to 9/11.

You can't possibly be this naive! The murder of 4 million Muslims is tied directly to 911. The illegal invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, of Ukraine, Syria, Libya, ... all are directly tied to 911.

 

[hot enough]

13 minutes ago, betsy said:

Take a lesson from Army Guy....he supported his claim.

I expect we will shortly hear from Goddess and you about how it is verboten to use Wikipedia. 

I even gave Army Guy the US based PHYSICIANS group's name. 

How have you missed that link, Betsy? Aren't Evangelical Christians honest people?

[Altai]

According to Canada Criminal Codes; 

319 (1) Every one who, by communicating statements in any public place, incites hatred against any identifiable group where such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the peace is guilty of

So according to the law above, someone is not allowed to incite hatred against Islam, such as ripping Quran. 

[betsy]

11 minutes ago, hot enough said:

I expect we will shortly hear from Goddess and you about how it is verboten to use Wikipedia. 

I even gave Army Guy the US based PHYSICIANS group's name. 

How have you missed that link, Betsy? Aren't Evangelical Christians honest people?

Does it support your claim about the 400 million murdered muslims?

[Army Guy]

4 minutes ago, Altai said:

Russia is not a Muslim country. So my point was your "Muslims are also killing Muslims" claim. This is a disgusting attempt to justify Western murders. So  you cant get rid of the responsiblity telling "we did nothing but terrorists did". You are supporting the terrorists. You remind me a US commander who made a press conference yesterday and said "ISIS is also killing civlians" and all the journalists was shocked at his words while he was trying to defend bombing a school recently in Syria which was full of civilians.


Rest of your post have nothing with this topic and my question, we have discussed these things many times in different topics. If you want to discuss, start another topic. 

Sorry i misunderstood your question.....Syria is backed by Russia, therefore it restricts what the west can do to Syria, without causing another conflict....Keep in mind that Turkey is part of the west, and it is also taking part in this conflict......

I am not justifying anything.....What i said was those 4 million killed is a lie.....not true.....If you add up all those killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, you will find that 85% of them were killed by other muslims......But that is not what we are talking about is it....we are just talking about deaths of muslims attributed to Coalition forces.....and while that number is still way to high, But we are talking about a war here , and innocent people are going to die that much is a fact.....It is not just a western thing.....it happens when there is a conflict....

I wonder how many innocent muslims your country has killed in this conflict....In war everyones hands come up bloody.....One can not just look at one side with disgust, like you have blaming the west for not controlling the dogs in Syria, this was not a western problem this was a world problem..........You talk as if your country is not part of the west......well sorry but it is, and your involved in this conflict as well.....

[hot enough]

6 minutes ago, betsy said:

Does it support your claim about the 400 million murdered muslims?

You can't even describe this simple fact in an accurate fashion. How do you expect people to think highly of evangelical christians with the parade you have been putting on here?

[Army Guy]

16 minutes ago, hot enough said:

I expect we will shortly hear from Goddess and you about how it is verboten to use Wikipedia. 

I even gave Army Guy the US based PHYSICIANS group's name. 

How have you missed that link, Betsy? Aren't Evangelical Christians honest people?

Yes you did....it links to a huge web site with hundreds of topics none of which are related to the topic at a hand.....thanks though....

[betsy]

Just now, hot enough said:

You can't even describe this simple fact in an accurate fashion. How do you expect people to think highly of evangelical christians with the parade you have been putting on here?

Well?  Does it support your claim about the 400 murdered Muslims?  Yes or no?

 

As simple as that.  Gee...it's worse than pulling teeth trying to get an answer from you.  You must have forked tongue.

[Army Guy]

2 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Yes you did....it links to a huge web site with hundreds of topics none of which are related to the topic at a hand.....thanks though....

Here is a important point from wiki ....their sources are listed at the bottom of the page....you can click on them and poof up will come up another source.....like a tofer...

[betsy]

5 minutes ago, hot enough said:

You can't even describe this simple fact in an accurate fashion. How do you expect people to think highly of evangelical christians with the parade you have been putting on here?

 

Well, here's what Army Guy says about your link:

 

Quote

Yes you did....it links to a huge web site with hundreds of topics none of which are related to the topic at a hand.....thanks though....

 

In other words, you're only proving that you're indeed, full of bull. 

Edited March 30, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

25 minutes ago, hot enough said:

I expect we will shortly hear from Goddess and you about how it is verboten to use Wikipedia. 

 

Depends on the particular article.  Some articles are backed by their resources which are listed below.

Edited March 30, 2017 by betsy

[hot enough]

20 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

....I am not justifying anything.....What i said was those 4 million killed is a lie.....not true.....

The lies have gone on for much much too long. All this murder, unbelievable misery and sadness, all because of one big lie, covered by many smaller lies, probably more lies than the numbers killed, all to hide the lies and the numbers murdered.

Quote

Unworthy victims: Western wars have killed four million Muslims since 1990

http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/unworthy-victims-western-wars-have-killed-four-million-muslims-1990-39149394

Quote

Casualty Figures after 10 Years of the “War on Terror” Iraq Afghanistan Pakistan

...

Officially ignored are casualties, injured or killed, involving enemy combatants and civilians. 4 This, of course, comes as no surprise. It is not an oversight but a deliberate omission. The U.S. authorities have kept no known records of such deaths. 5 This would have destroyed the arguments that freeing Iraq by military force from a dictatorship, removing Al-Qaeda from Afghanistan and eliminating safe-havens for terrorists in Pakistan’s tribal areas has prevented terrorism from reaching the U.S. homeland, improved global security and advanced human rights, all at “defendable” costs.6 However, facts are indeed stubborn. Governments and civil society know now that on all counts these assertions have proved to be preposterously false. Military battles have been won in Iraq and Afghanistan but at enormous costs to human security and trust among nations. One must not forget the financial costs. 7 The 21st century has seen a loss of innocent civilian life at an unprecedented scale, especially in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Nobody should even dare to ask the question whether it was worth it! As independent U.S. journalist Nir Rosen noted, “the hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis are not better off, […] the children who lost their fathers aren’t better off, […] the hundreds and thousands of refugees are not better off.”8 The IPPNW Body Count publication must be seen as a significant contribution to narrowing the gap between reliable estimates of victims of war, especially civilians in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan and tendentious, manipulated or even fraudulent accounts. These have in the past blurred the picture of the magnitude of death and destitution in these three countries. Subjective and pre-conceived reporting certainly is a serious matter. This includes the dissemination of deliberately falsified information. In the context of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, there are many examples of manipulated “facts.” The U.S. Department of Defense’s shortlived (2001/02) Office of Strategic Influence (OSI) is one stark example of government-generated mis- and dis-information meant to influence public opinion in supporting its Iraq policies. 9 With this publication the public becomes aware of how difficult it has been to grasp the real dimensions of these wars and how rare independent and nonpartisan casualty assessments have been. For governments and inter-governmental organizations, the IPPNW review represents a powerful aide mémoire of their legal and moral responsibility to hold perpetrators accountable. What is reflected in the IPPNW study is not for the history books alone, but much more significant it is a plea for justice to prevail. Without the credible information contained in the IPPNW Body Count publication it would be even more difficult to seek redress and justice. As the picture becomes clearer thanks to organizations such as IPPNW about dead, wounded, traumatized, tortured, poisoned (due to depleted uranium and white phosphorus), dislocated and impoverished civilians, accountability for the crimes committed is more and more within reach. Winning the battle over the integrity of information, it must be stressed, unequivocally constitutes a prerequisite for a dangerously overdue debate. Global leaders in governments and in the United Nations can no longer escape from an open and intensive reflection, together with civil society, on the origins of recent conflicts. The public conscience is not willing to accept further procrastination. People on every continent, especially the young who are the involuntary inheritors of conflict, insist on actions for peace. Nothing less! IPPNW’s timely Body Count publication is evidence of its unrelenting commitment to “ending war and to addressing the causes of armed conflict” and, as such, an important contribution to actions for peace. Dr. h.c. Hans-C. von Sponeck, UN Assistant Secretary General & UN Humanitarian Coordinator for Iraq (1998-2000); UN Resident Coordinator for Pakistan (1988- 94) covering also Afghanistan. 8 Nir Rosen, Following the Bloodshed of America’s Wars in th

http://www.psr.org/assets/pdfs/body-count.pdf

 

 

Edited March 30, 2017 by hot enough

[hot enough]

28 minutes ago, betsy said:

Does it support your claim about the 400 murdered Muslims?  Yes or no?

See what I mean, Betsy. [No, you probably don't.]

Edited March 30, 2017 by hot enough

[hot enough]

13 minutes ago, betsy said:

Well, here's what Army Guy says about your link:

 

Quote

Yes you did....it links to a huge web site with hundreds of topics none of which are related to the topic at a hand.....thanks though....

 

In other words, you're only proving that you're indeed, full of bull.

That only proves that his research skills are as bad as yours, Betsy. And you are getting desperate, illustrated by your resorting to more emoticons. 

The Physicians for Social Responsibility study has been quoted. The links are there for everyone to get to the full study and read it. 

[hot enough]

18 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

21 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Yes you did....it links to a huge web site with hundreds of topics none of which are related to the topic at a hand.....thanks though....

Here is a important point from wiki ....their sources are listed at the bottom of the page....you can click on them and poof up will come up another source.....like a tofer...

Who is this addressed to?

[blackbird]

17 minutes ago, Altai said:

According to Canada Criminal Codes; 

319 (1) Every one who, by communicating statements in any public place, incites hatred against any identifiable group where such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the peace is guilty of

So according to the law above, someone is not allowed to incite hatred against Islam, such as ripping Quran. 

The law you quoted does not say ripping a Quran by itself is inciting hatred against Islam.  Read the whole sentence above.  It has to cause a breach of the peace. (maybe a riot)  Since most people are not Muslims, they would not get upset.  So probably there were be no breach of the peace.  If it were done in front of a group of Muslims, then it would cause a problem.   If it were done in a Mosque, it would be different.  Then it would probably be against the law because it would probably cause a riot.  It all depends on the individual situation.  I think it would have to be done where a group of Muslims are physically located.  I doubt if somebody a hundred or thousand miles away can claim the law was broken  because they heard about it in the paper or on TV.

[hot enough]

10 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I doubt if

Is it your intention to put as much distance as possible between the truth and the viewers, bb? Your first response to 4 million Muslims murdered, the cover up of such information by the war criminals themselves, ... is a wee discussion on Canadian law. 

[Argus]

48 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Yes you did....it links to a huge web site with hundreds of topics none of which are related to the topic at a hand.....thanks though....

I can save you the bother. Basically, the report was made by several very left wing people, and says that any Muslim who has died in any kind of conflict is our fault. Regardless of who died or why they died. If they died before the violence in Iraq, then it's the fault of sanctions, and it's our fault. If he died because some other Muslim killed him, be it in Iraq or Pakistan or Afghanistan, it's the fault of the West. It's basically a sort of bleeding heart liberal view of the world, where the White people are responsible for all ills because non-White people can't be any more held responsible for their actions than children. It's a deeply racist belief, but bleeding heart liberals never engage much in self-examination. Most media dismissed it as garbage. You'll only find it on the kind of fringe left sites where they love to crow about conspiracies and how evil the West is.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Argus

[Altai]

31 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Sorry i misunderstood your question.....Syria is backed by Russia, therefore it restricts what the west can do to Syria, without causing another conflict....Keep in mind that Turkey is part of the west, and it is also taking part in this conflict......

I am not justifying anything.....What i said was those 4 million killed is a lie.....not true.....If you add up all those killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, you will find that 85% of them were killed by other muslims......But that is not what we are talking about is it....we are just talking about deaths of muslims attributed to Coalition forces.....and while that number is still way to high, But we are talking about a war here , and innocent people are going to die that much is a fact.....It is not just a western thing.....it happens when there is a conflict....

I wonder how many innocent muslims your country has killed in this conflict....In war everyones hands come up bloody.....One can not just look at one side with disgust, like you have blaming the west for not controlling the dogs in Syria, this was not a western problem this was a world problem..........You talk as if your country is not part of the west......well sorry but it is, and your involved in this conflict as well.....

You are looking at the events superficial and this is misleading you. You need to learn to ask true questions.  Below a few examples for true questions;

Why there is no conflicts between Muslims in Turkiye, in Saudi, in Qatar, in Iran ? (Despite these countries are not real Muslim countries for me, I am ust talking according to your mind.) 

Why all the conflics happen in Western involved and destabilized "Muslim" countries ? Why noone is blowing up a market place in my country ? 

Did you read the memories of ex British intelligence guys ? They admits how they are making people enemies to each other. Do you remember the British soldiers caught in Iraq with Muslim style dresses and bombs in their bags ? 


Now Muslim countries are trying to create a Muslim Union in the lead of Turkiye and Western countries are getting mad at it. Because their chance to involve in Muslim countries jobs is being put at risk. 

Muslim Turkish Army is one of the a few armies in the World has the highest level of morality. Our army will never bomb somewhere randomly. Again you are blaming others to justify your own crimes. 

[Altai]

Please back to the main topic subject. Its about ripping a religious book and its effects. 

According to Canada Laws, its a crime. Because ripping a religious book is just an act of hatred and suppressed  violence. 

According to Canada Criminal Codes; 

Public incitement of hatred

• 319 (1) Every one who, by communicating statements in any public place, incites hatred against any identifiable group where such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the peace is guilty of

  • (a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or

  • (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.
    
    
    
    http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-72.html#h-93

 

Edited March 30, 2017 by Altai