DogOnPorch Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 18 minutes ago, dialamah said: Why would I read a book described as "racism as criticism" whose "hyperventilated rhetoric tips from actual critique into Islamophobia" merely because you claim its fair? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Bawer Islam isn't a 'race'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) 27 minutes ago, dialamah said: Why would I read a book described as "racism as criticism" whose "hyperventilated rhetoric tips from actual critique into Islamophobia" merely because you claim its fair? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Bawer I wasn't telling you that you HAVE TO read it. It's just difficult to discuss a book's points (not all of which I agreed with) with someone who hasn't read it and would refuse to read anything critical of Islam. You never heard of Bruce Bawer and have never read anything of his, but you're already highly critical of him and have already branded him a racist Islamophobe. I'm always surprised when people use Wiki as a source here. When I was in college we were not allowed to use Wiki as a source on anything. Edit: Since you haven't read the book, it's mainly about which immigration policies have worked and which ones haven't and the why's and why not's of policies in many countries of Europe and in the US. How countries need to be aware of traditions and cultural ideas that would be in direct conflict with laws and regulations already in place. How these need to be changed to both accommodate acceptable traditions and yet not place it's own citizens or the immigrants themselves in danger or having 2 sets of laws - one for native born Europeans and another for immigrants. That was why I read the book. Not because it is critical of Islam. Edited March 30, 2017 by Goddess 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 hour ago, hot enough said: they think that if one yells and screams the propaganda long enough, it will take. You mean, kind of like troothers, who continually harp on 9/11 being an inside job? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Goddess said: I wasn't telling you that you HAVE TO read it. It's just difficult to discuss a book's points (not all of which I agreed with) with someone who hasn't read it and would refuse to read anything critical of Islam. You never heard of Bruce Bawer and have never read anything of his, but you're already highly critical of him and have already branded him a racist Islamophobe. I'm always surprised when people use Wiki as a source here. When I was in college we were not allowed to use Wiki as a source on anything. It is important that any criticism of Islam be called Islamophobic and racist as the only taboo in the West (which includes Europe) is racism. Islam standing on its own merits in the West is unthinkable...as there are none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, capricorn said: You mean, kind of like troothers, who continually harp on 9/11 being an inside job? You mean truthers, as in those who believe in the truth, like teachers, those who teach; employers, those who employ people; movers, those who move things; ... . This is a 3rd or 4th grade English lesson. Stupid lessons, I must note, because the kids already know these rules by the time they start school, but that's another topic. Why is this lost on you, an adult? I presume. Edited March 30, 2017 by hot enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 12 minutes ago, capricorn said: You mean, kind of like troothers, who continually harp on 9/11 being an inside job? I think we can both agree the poster in question has drank the Kool-aid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 11 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: It is important that any criticism of Islam be called Islamophobic and racist as the only taboo in the West (which includes Europe) is racism. Islam standing on its own merits in the West is unthinkable...as there are none. That's not true at all, and sadly you know this, DoP. It's racism when it is used as you use it; to disparage, to mock, to ridicule, to encourage deep resentment against a specific group. Anyone with a scintilla of common sense should see through your shtick in an instant, for all these things you do are done so poorly and in such an openly and overt racist fashion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 9 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: I think we can both agree the poster in question has drank the Kool-aid. And a terrible propagandist to boot. "Have you no sense of decency sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?" -Joseph N Welch [castigating the immoral Senator Joe McCarthy] 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, hot enough said: That's not true at all, and sadly you know this, DoP. It's racism when it is used as you use it; to disparage, to mock, to ridicule, to encourage deep resentment against a specific group. Anyone with a scintilla of common sense should see through your shtick in an instant, for all these things you do are done so poorly and in such an openly and overt racist fashion. Islam is a religion and political system. Not a race or a skin colour as you insist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, hot enough said: And a terrible propagandist to boot. "Have you no sense of decency sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?" -Joseph N Welch [castigating the immoral Senator Joe McCarthy] Have another glass... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Islam is a religion and political system. Not a race or a skin colour as you insist. More of your terrible propaganda. One would think that they would hire someone who has a grasp of the realities. ... ... I take that back. No one in these groups of racist Islamaphobes has any real grasp of reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) 1 minute ago, hot enough said: More of your terrible propaganda. One would think that they would hire someone who has a grasp of the realities. ... ... I take that back. No one in these groups of racist Islamaphobes has any real grasp of reality. Islam still isn't a race of people nor a shade of skin colour....no matter how much you insist that it is. Edited March 30, 2017 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 30 minutes ago, Goddess said: Edit: Since you haven't read the book, it's mainly about which immigration policies have worked and which ones haven't and the why's and why not's of policies in many countries of Europe and in the US. How countries need to be aware of traditions and cultural ideas that would be in direct conflict with laws and regulations already in place. How these need to be changed to both accommodate acceptable traditions and yet not place it's own citizens or the immigrants themselves in danger or having 2 sets of laws - one for native born Europeans and another for immigrants. Going back to the incident involving women's shelters, Dialamah, we've discussed this before and you have posited that we need to make Muslim women in abusive homes aware of the resources available to them. The Norwegians did this, going directly to the communities with the information. Many women showed up at the shelters and it was noticed that if 1 showed up, others from the same neighborhood did too. You have also posited that the majority of Muslims would want these resources and that is what The Norwegians thought as well. Instead they were met with protests from Muslims, wanting the law changed to suit them. Also something that you posit as something that is rarely done in the Muslim world. Now what does the Norwegian government do? Cave in to the demands? Now you have told these women there is a safe place for them, but it's not because they are shipped right back to abusive husbands. Round round we go..... Unfortunately, what you posit is not the reality. You also claim that what's happening in Europe will not be the case in Canada (I don't know why it would be different here, you've never explained why) but I think we need to pay attention to what's working and what's not working in Europe and learn from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 10 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Have another glass... Not even close to as good a propagandist as Senator Joseph McCarthy. Ole smokin' Joe drank himself into an early grave, probably sitting on his porch, with his dog, toying with his propane bar-bee-cue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 Just now, hot enough said: Not even close to as good a propagandist as Senator Joseph McCarthy. Ole smokin' Joe drank himself into an early grave, probably sitting on his porch, with his dog, toying with his propane bar-bee-cue. Non Sequitur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Non Sequitur But a very apt description of guess who. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 Just now, hot enough said: But a very apt description of guess who. You're free to hate dogs as Mohammad ordered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Goddess said: Going back to the incident involving women's shelters, Dialamah, This is all well and good, Goddess, having rational discussions about helping women around the world, doing good works, being christian, ... . But it doesn't address the 4 million Muslims murdered since 1990. It is, let me suggest, an attempt to put a window dressing/a grand facade on a drug joint or a whore house. I haven't heard you call out any of the racist Islamaphobes that post here, so frequently and so virulently. I haven't heard you say, "Well, you know if a highly respected, top US forensic engineer on building/bridge/steel structures failures says, CATEGORICALLY, that WTC7 did not come down as per the official US government story, perhaps we should give this another look. That's what we open and honest westerners do." Edited March 30, 2017 by hot enough 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, hot enough said: This is all well and good, Goddess, having rational discussions about helping women around the world, doing good works, being christian, ... . But it doesn't address the 4 million Muslims murdered since 1990. It is, let me suggest, an attempt to put a window dressing/a grand facade on a drug joint or a whore house. I haven't heard you call out any of the racist Islamaphobes that post here, so frequently and so virulently. I haven't heard you say, "Well, you know if a highly respected, top US forensic engineer on building/bridge/steel structures failures says, CATEGORICALLY, that WTC7 didn't not come down as per the official US government story, perhaps we should give this another look. That's what we open and honest westerners do." Why does your cause have to be my cause? Can't we each have our own? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 14 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: You're free to hate dogs as Mohammad ordered. And all the kind folks, the Christians, the loving westerners, who seek to help bring the Muslims "out of their ignorance" sit silent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Goddess said: Why does your cause have to be my cause? Can't we each have our own? They are inextricably intertwined. Is your cause to help Muslims/the "ignorant", "backwards" Middle Easteners? How does murdering 4 million of them help anyone, most of all them? How does murdering 4 million on a big lie help anyone. To my way of thinking, it makes us grand hypocrites, AND to be frank, much worse. Edited March 30, 2017 by hot enough 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, hot enough said: And all the kind folks, the Christians, the loving westerners, who seek to help bring the Muslims "out of their ignorance" sit silent. My favorite bit was Big Mo saying: "Kill All The Dogs!" Then some wise-acre piping-up "What about dogs used for herding??" Then Big Mo relenting slightly: "Okay...not THOSE dogs...just all the others...especially BLACK dogs." Herd Dog Owners: [collective whew] Then later...after a night's sleep where he was SUPPOSED to have a chat with the angel Gabriel...he relented again... Saying: "I was supposed to meet Gabriel in a dream but he said that he wouldn't as there was a dog and a hanging picture in my house." Well... "Kill ALL the DOGS!" once more....... #hadithsRfun. Edited March 30, 2017 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: My favorite bit was Big Mo saying: "Kill All The Dogs!" Then some wise-acre piping-up "What about dogs used for herding??" Then Big Mo relenting slightly: "Okay...not THOSE dogs...just all the others...especially BLACK dogs." Dog Owners: [collective whew] Then later...after a night's sleep where he was SUPPOSED to have a chat with the angel Gabriel...he relented again... Saying: "I was supposed to meet Gabriel in a dream but he said that he wouldn't as there was a dog and a hanging picture in my house." Well... "Kill ALL the DOGS!" once more....... #hadithsRfun. All you Christians, all you who seek to save Muslims from their "evil" ways, all you warm, loving, kind, benevolent westerners, I give you - your go to leader. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 Just now, hot enough said: All you Christians, all you who seek to save Muslims from their "evil" ways, all you warm, loving, kind, benevolent westerners, I give you - your go to leader. Atheist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 18 minutes ago, hot enough said: They are inextricably intertwined. Is your cause to help Muslims/the "ignorant", "backwards" Middle Easteners? How does murdering 4 million of them help anyone, most of all them? How does murdering 4 million on a big lie help anyone. To my way of thinking, it makes us grand hypocrites, AND to be frank, much worse. My causes are mainly women's issues. I have volunteered, fund-raised and donated clothing, housewares and money to shelters in whichever city I'm living in. I also am into animal rescues. I've had 3 rescue dogs, my kids rescue animals and I volunteer to work with various animal rescue societies. I have attended marches for various other causes and signed petitions and informed myself of many issues. I also consider myself an Ambassador for flamenco. We each do what we can to make the world a better place. What do you do for your 9/11 cause? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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