kactus Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) Trump's revised ban has nothing to do with making America safe again... I won't really care if anyone here really thinks he is doing A "great job" as a POTUS but if anyone really cared and decent enough with a bit of morality they would realise that this is not doing anything to help make US safe again but instead unnecessarily increases animosity towards the US. What do you think? Please argue rationally instead of resorting to name callings and blankets statements..... Not a single American has been killed from a terrorist act in the United States committed by nationals from the countries targeted in the so-called revised travel ban. In the case of Iranian Americans, most of whom have fled to America as the result of persecution or oppression at home, are a model immigrant community in the United States. Despite decades of acrimonious relationship between their ancestral home and their adopted country, Iranian Americans are among the most successful immigrant community in the United States. A large number of them are businessmen, doctors, lawyers and engineers. They have senior executive positions with some of the largest corporations, including Twitter, eBay, Expedia, and Google. Iranian filmmaker Asghar Farhadi who has won two academy awards and boycotted the 2017 Oscars in protest at the Trump travel ban was represented by prominent Iranian American scientist Firouz Naderi and an Iranian-American businesswoman, Anousheh Ansari, the first Iranian to go to space. Full article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trumps-travel-ban-exempting-the-next-osama-bin-laden_us_58bf617de4b0a797c1d396bc Edited March 12, 2017 by kactus removed excessive quotation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 Dude, you can't quote that much of an article. State key elements that you want to address and selectively quote portions of the article that discuss the issue you wish to discuss. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 Things are not going to get better any time soon, I'm thinking. Muslims are looking more and more like 1940s Jews in Germany, but on a worldwide scale. Our 'side' has been invading and killing Muslims in their home countries for decades, whilst we sit in our safe little living rooms and are delivered our sanitized stories about making life better for these people (and safeguarding oil). After decades of this, some Muslims start to fight back - and they're the 'bad guys'. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 I don't remember hearing about Jews in 1940s Germany blowing each other up 40 at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 1 minute ago, bcsapper said: I don't remember hearing about Jews in 1940s Germany blowing each other up 40 at a time. Perhaps if killing them had continued for decades you would have. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 Just now, dialamah said: Perhaps if killing them had continued for decades you would have. No, I don't think so. I think any comparison of today's Muslims to early 20th Century European Jews is wrong, as is any comparison between any government today and Nazi Germany. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 23 minutes ago, bcsapper said: No, I don't think so. I think any comparison of today's Muslims to early 20th Century European Jews is wrong, as is any comparison between any government today and Nazi Germany. The same themes as were used against Jews in Nazi Germany and Japanese in second world war Canada are the same ones being used against Muslims today. It's a method that is well established to marginalize a particular group of people, whether it's Nazi's against Jews, Muslims against Christians or Westerners against Muslims: They are a danger to our society; they are out to get us; they lie to us; they don't understand our values; they will rape our women and children; unless we protect ourselves, they will over-run our society, and we'll become 'them'. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 Just now, dialamah said: The same themes as were used against Jews in Nazi Germany and Japanese in second world war Canada are the same ones being used against Muslims today. It's a method that is well established to marginalize a particular group of people, whether it's Nazi's against Jews, Muslims against Christians or Westerners against Muslims: They are a danger to our society; they are out to get us; they lie to us; they don't understand our values; they will rape our women and children; unless we protect ourselves, they will over-run our society, and we'll become 'them'. I don't buy that at all. That's out and out fear mongering. If Trump burns the Capitol building, uses it as an excuse to stay in power beyond the next election, and forces Muslims to wear a yellow crescent, I'll buy it. The fact is, such fear mongering is just misdirection. It's way of ensuring that justified criticism of the more barbaric aspects of the religion are viewed as bigoted or racist, instead of the aforementioned justified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 Just now, bcsapper said: I don't buy that at all. That's out and out fear mongering. If Trump burns the Capitol building, uses it as an excuse to stay in power beyond the next election, and forces Muslims to wear a yellow crescent, I'll buy it. The fact is, such fear mongering is just misdirection. It's way of ensuring that justified criticism of the more barbaric aspects of the religion are viewed as bigoted or racist, instead of the aforementioned justified. 1 Why is the hysterical refrain of "OMG, Sharia Law is coming" because some Muslim women might want to swim without men in the pool NOT fear-mongering? How is spreading false stories about how 'Muslims demand menus change to suit them = OMG Sharia Law is coming" not fear mongering? Why is a story about a Muslim man groping women in a pool nation-wide and world-wide news, while the daily activities of non-Muslim pedophiles is ignored? Why is the severe over-reaction to a motion for study on religious intolerance NOT fear mongering? How is claiming that Muslims are inherently violent/barbaric with no redeeming qualities NOT fear-mongering? Perhaps when I see you objecting to those kinds of comments, instead of giving them credence, I will start believing your claim that you are objecting to 'both' sides of what you see as extremist statements. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, dialamah said: Things are not going to get better any time soon, I'm thinking. Muslims are looking more and more like 1940s Jews in Germany, but on a worldwide scale. Our 'side' has been invading and killing Muslims in their home countries for decades, whilst we sit in our safe little living rooms and are delivered our sanitized stories about making life better for these people (and safeguarding oil). After decades of this, some Muslims start to fight back - and they're the 'bad guys'. You are completely out of touch with reality. Check the website religionofpeace dot com Jihad report for March 4 to 10th, 2017. Attacks 30 killed 309 injured 228 suicide blasts 3 countries 12 Total number killed by terrorist attacks since 9-11: 30,446 I would guess a lot of these victims are Muslims. Edited March 12, 2017 by blackbird 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 2 hours ago, kactus said: Trump's revised ban has nothing to do with making America safe again... I won't really care if anyone here really thinks he is doing A "great job" as a POTUS but if anyone really cared and decent enough with a bit of morality they would realise that this is not doing anything to help make US safe again but instead unnecessarily increases animosity towards the US. What do you think? Please argue rationally instead of resorting to name callings and blankets statements..... Not a single American has been killed from a terrorist act in the United States committed by nationals from the countries targeted in the so-called revised travel ban..6bc An immigrant from Somalia did attack about 13 people with a knife sometime in the past year or so in one of the northern U.S. states. Fortunately nobody died. One reason I heard for putting the six countries on the ban list is because they have administrations which are unwilling or unable to properly vet travellers. Some governments in these countries are in a state of anarchy or hostile to the U.S. Trump also receives confidential security information from national security agencies that he cannot make public for national security reasons. He may have specific information which indicates there are genuine terrorist threats from groups in some of these countries. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 17 minutes ago, dialamah said: Why is the hysterical refrain of "OMG, Sharia Law is coming" because some Muslim women might want to swim without men in the pool NOT fear-mongering? How is spreading false stories about how 'Muslims demand menus change to suit them = OMG Sharia Law is coming" not fear mongering? Why is a story about a Muslim man groping women in a pool nation-wide and world-wide news, while the daily activities of non-Muslim pedophiles is ignored? Why is the severe over-reaction to a motion for study on religious intolerance NOT fear mongering? How is claiming that Muslims are inherently violent/barbaric with no redeeming qualities NOT fear-mongering? Perhaps when I see you objecting to those kinds of comments, instead of giving them credence, I will start believing your claim that you are objecting to 'both' sides of what you see as extremist statements. The objection to religious base swimming pool times is not to be compared to the possibility of camps and ovens if we are not careful when it comes to fear mongering. If, indeed, those objections exist as you described them. I do remember hearing about menu changes in the UK. Didn't really bother me, as others can deal with it. The Muslim taxi drivers in Rotherham bothered me, but not nearly as much as the liberal tossers who let them get away with it for fear of... fear mongering! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, blackbird said: administrations which are unwilling or unable to properly vet travellers While that might be true for country with very new and developing government like Somalia, how could that apply to Iran which is highly developed? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 Just now, ?Impact said: While that might be true for country with very new and developing government like Somalia, how could that apply to Iran which is highly developed? Iran is considered a country very hostile to the U.S. and Israel. They are reportedly a state-sponsor of terrorism. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, blackbird said: Iran is considered a country very hostile to the U.S. and Israel. They are reportedly a state-sponsor of terrorism. Can you give examples of citizens of Iran involved in terrorist activities in the US? Most of those from Iran that I know are high educated and fit very well into North American culture and economy. No matter if they are Muslim or not, they don't want to be in Iran because they don't support the regime there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 Just now, ?Impact said: Can you give examples of citizens of Iran involved in terrorist activities in the US? Most of those from Iran that I know are high educated and fit very well into North American culture and economy. No matter if they are Muslim or not, they don't want to be in Iran because they don't support the regime there. i never said any citizens of Iran in the U.S. are involved in terrorist activities. The problem is not with those who are in the U.S. The travel ban is not for them. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, blackbird said: i never said any citizens of Iran in the U.S. are involved in terrorist activities. The problem is not with those who are in the U.S. The travel ban is not for them. What about the many citizens of Iran in Canada, Europe and elsewhere that travel frequently to the US? There are many people in technical and management positions across many industries that travel to the US for training, sales activities, conferences, joint projects, etc. This travel ban is dumb a$$ stupid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted March 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) 38 minutes ago, blackbird said: An immigrant from Somalia did attack about 13 people with a knife sometime in the past year or so in one of the northern U.S. states. Fortunately nobody died. One reason I heard for putting the six countries on the ban list is because they have administrations which are unwilling or unable to properly vet travellers. Some governments in these countries are in a state of anarchy or hostile to the U.S. Trump also receives confidential security information from national security agencies that he cannot make public for national security reasons. He may have specific information which indicates there are genuine terrorist threats from groups in some of these countries. Read the article posted first then let's discuss. Edited March 12, 2017 by kactus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted March 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, ?Impact said: What about the many citizens of Iran in Canada, Europe and elsewhere that travel frequently to the US? There are many people in technical and management positions across many industries that travel to the US for training, sales activities, conferences, joint projects, etc. This travel ban is dumb a$$ stupid. The said travel ban has nothing to do with terrorism IMHO... Edited March 12, 2017 by kactus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 1 minute ago, kactus said: The said travel ban has nothing to do with terrorism. If you believe that, there is not much we can say. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted March 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 43 minutes ago, blackbird said: You are completely out of touch Total number killed by terrorist attacks since 9-11: 30,446 I would guess a lot of these victims are Muslims. Since you provided the stats tell me this..... How many of 9/11 attackers were of Iranian origin? I tell you the number zilch!!! Last time I checked it still showed citizens of saudi, egyptian and uae. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted March 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, blackbird said: If you believe that, there is not much we can say. Obviously not... There's not much to say to you if you think this way 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 1 hour ago, blackbird said: Iran is considered a country very hostile to the U.S. and Israel. They are reportedly a state-sponsor of terrorism. So why does the west and the EU cozy up to the Saudis? Even if you go with the fact that 9/11 was masterminded, but not really by Bin Laden but via connections from Saudi Arabia. Most of those hijackers were in fact Saudi nationals, but yet every other nation in the Middle East is paying for it by being destroyed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 "Rather than succumb to these apocalyptic “chicken little” cries of “#MuslimBan,” forcing our attention away from the real problem of Islamic extremism, I gently urge Muslims—and other well-intentioned folks—to take this unique opportunity of a new presidency to directly challenge the ideology of Islamic extremism, directing our outrage at the real enemy, the ideologues that promote Islamic extremism, defeating them and saving lives everywhere, so that we actually ban something very nefarious from this world: the ideology of Islamic extremism."-- Asra Q. Nomani (@AsraNomani) is a former Wall Street Journal reporter and the author of Standing Alone: An American Woman’s Struggle for the Soul of Islam. She is a cofounder of the Muslim Reform Movement 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted March 12, 2017 Report Share Posted March 12, 2017 2 hours ago, dialamah said: Perhaps if killing them had continued for decades you would have. Killing Jews continued for thousands of year, not just decades, in case you're unaware. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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