Trump's so called "revised ban" revisited

[OftenWrong]

7 minutes ago, kactus said:

Personal attacks is the syndrome of weakness. 

That question was rhetorical and I ignore as you are making it a personal attack on me. Hope the moderators pay attention to this.

No, the answer to what you asked was given in that one. You took it personally and missed what he's actually saying.

[kactus]

3 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Plenty of evidence available, and some was given to you. You are either not reading it or perhaps you simply refuse. Which is it?

And you have been provided with tons of evidence provided to you but you have conveniently ignored thew arguments put forth...This is why this conversation is a non starter...

Get back to me once you have unlocked the 9/11, Osama Bin Ladin and ISIS connections.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, kactus said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

 

Payback is a bitch, eh ?   No more Mr. Nice Guy for Iran...this is war.

Ban all Iranian travel to the USA as long as is necessary....so that's forever.

Also, give Israel whatever it needs to defend itself from the Evil Iranian Satan.

Israelis are welcomed to travel to the USA...not Iranians.

[kactus]

2 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

No, the answer to what you asked was given in that one. You took it personally and missed what he's actually saying.

First of all it was DOP but since you are acting as his secretary asking me if I beat my wife I would say this to you. Irrelevant and non sequitur.

Hope that makes it clear for you.

[kactus]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Payback is a bitch, eh ?   No more Mr. Nice Guy for Iran...this is war.

Ban all Iranian travel to the USA as long as is necessary....so that's forever.

Also, give Israel whatever it needs to defend itself from the Evil Iranian Satan.

Israelis are welcomed to travel to the USA...not Iranians.

Whatever dude. You have won if that makes you feel better...

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Payback is a bitch, eh ?   No more Mr. Nice Guy for Iran...this is war.

Ban all Iranian travel to the USA as long as is necessary....so that's forever.

Also, give Israel whatever it needs to defend itself from the Evil Iranian Satan.

Israelis are welcomed to travel to the USA...not Iranians.

 

There are plenty of lovely Iranians...and I'm sure some live in Iran. But those that now call Israel and America home generally left Iran soon after the Islamic Revolution...

Anything coming out of that terror state now is going to need EXTREME VETTING.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, kactus said:

Whatever dude. You have won if that makes you feel better...

 

There are many other countries in the world for Iranian travel and emigration.

Why are they so eager to go to the USA anyway if Iran is so great ?

 

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

There are plenty of lovely Iranians...and I'm sure some live in Iran....

 

Good...'cause they can stay there instead of crashing the USA as far as I'm concerned.

Why doesn't Iran have great tourism numbers ?  

[DogOnPorch]

6 minutes ago, kactus said:

First of all it was DOP but since you are acting as his secretary asking me if I beat my wife I would say this to you. Irrelevant and non sequitur.

Hope that makes it clear for you.

 

It's like me asking: So why do you hate all Jews?

I doubt you really hate ALL Jews...

It's a logical fallacy...like non-sequitur is a logical fallacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question

 

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Good...'cause they can stay there instead of crashing the USA as far as I'm concerned.

Why doesn't Iran have great tourism numbers ?  

I'm pretty sure those that wanted out generally got out...but perhaps there some who would still like to flee the Iranian terror state.

Not our problem, mind-you.

[OftenWrong]

14 minutes ago, kactus said:

First of all it was DOP but since you are acting as his secretary asking me if I beat my wife I would say this to you. Irrelevant and non sequitur.

Hope that makes it clear for you.

I know who it was, I can read and comprehend. His response was an answer to your question, and not actually about you.

Let me help you a little...

The nature of domestic violence (in Iran) is complicated by both a national culture and authoritative state that support control, oppression and violence against women.

Domestic Violence in Iran

It's the same patriarchy that exists, culturally and legally, across the whole Middle East. You have tried to disassociate the two, and by this post are proven to have utterly failed. There is no disconnect between a culture and a law.

[bush_cheney2004]

8 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

...I'm pretty sure those that wanted out generally got out...but perhaps there some who would still like to flee the Iranian terror state.

Not our problem, mind-you.

 

Sorry...the drawbridge is up.   Iranians who do not espouse terrorism against Israel or other western states can stay home and fix their government the old fashioned way.  

Quote

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

 

[DogOnPorch]

Not our problem, mind-you.

[Cum Laude]

14 hours ago, kactus said:

 

Kactus, you might be thinking about our good friend on this forum. He also says subliminally the Deep State isn’t a monolith.

I agree with you both, that there’s contending factions. But I think there’s also enough consensus that the basic institutions, endure, as you say. For them life goes on. Whether government bureaucracies act in accordance with their stated mandate or whether they act for their own benefit, to the great disadvantage of people they are meant to serve, well, that’s another thing.

We’ll see how far the Deep State consensus goes, especially with large, over-arching issues like so-called globalization. Let’s not forget that the military is also part of the Deep State and that these guys have guns, are highly trained and have a command, control and communication structure. So, tell me, who’s the tail and who’s the dog? Do the rest of the Deep State rule at the sufferance of the military?

I’ll bet that given that so much of the military comes from working class whites – the Deplorables – that have gotten so hammered economically, there’s a fair degree of discontent within the military over the lot of the folk back home.

The question, what are we fighting for? To what end? For whose benefit? These men have eyes and ears and active minds. They aren’t automatons no matter that they’re trained to take orders.

And if enough of these Deplorables make it high enough into the officer corp, then there could very well be a problem for the Oligarchs in whose interest the military is meant to serve.

The Oligarchs are the part of the Deep State we tend to forget (or maybe I should speak for myself). For if the Deep State isn’t about protecting and nurturing Oligarch interests, then what is it for? The Billionarios have done preposterously well these last few decades, and they did it with the complicity of Deep State organs and with military enforcement. And arguably to the great detriment of the geo-political position of the US and to the great disadvantage of so many ordinary Americans.

By all appearances the soldier boys have been behaving themselves, taking orders from their civilian masters. How long does this last given the on-going gong show in Washington? Not only that but given the economic dismemberment of so much of the country where so many of the soldier boys come from? When do the generals stop taking orders from civilians and start giving them?

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[kactus]

21 hours ago, Cum Laude said:

Kactus, you might be thinking about our good friend on this forum. He also says subliminally the Deep State isn’t a monolith.

I agree with you both, that there’s contending factions. But I think there’s also enough consensus that the basic institutions, endure, as you say. For them life goes on. Whether government bureaucracies act in accordance with their stated mandate or whether they act for their own benefit, to the great disadvantage of people they are meant to serve, well, that’s another thing.

We’ll see how far the Deep State consensus goes, especially with large, over-arching issues like so-called globalization. Let’s not forget that the military is also part of the Deep State and that these guys have guns, are highly trained and have a command, control and communication structure. So, tell me, who’s the tail and who’s the dog? Do the rest of the Deep State rule at the sufferance of the military?

I’ll bet that given that so much of the military comes from working class whites – the Deplorables – that have gotten so hammered economically, there’s a fair degree of discontent within the military over the lot of the folk back home.

The question, what are we fighting for? To what end? For whose benefit? These men have eyes and ears and active minds. They aren’t automatons no matter that they’re trained to take orders.

And if enough of these Deplorables make it high enough into the officer corp, then there could very well be a problem for the Oligarchs in whose interest the military is meant to serve.

The Oligarchs are the part of the Deep State we tend to forget (or maybe I should speak for myself). For if the Deep State isn’t about protecting and nurturing Oligarch interests, then what is it for? The Billionarios have done preposterously well these last few decades, and they did it with the complicity of Deep State organs and with military enforcement. And arguably to the great detriment of the geo-political position of the US and to the great disadvantage of so many ordinary Americans.

By all appearances the soldier boys have been behaving themselves, taking orders from their civilian masters. How long does this last given the on-going gong show in Washington? Not only that but given the economic dismemberment of so much of the country where so many of the soldier boys come from? When do the generals stop taking orders from civilians and start giving them?

Log in to Reply

Logged in and have no idea what you are on about....

I have given you a comprehensive answer here:

That would be a good starting point.

Edited March 20, 2017 by kactus
adding extra comment

[kactus]

On 18/03/2017 at 3:06 PM, OftenWrong said:

I know who it was, I can read and comprehend. His response was an answer to your question, and not actually about you.

Let me help you a little...

The nature of domestic violence (in Iran) is complicated by both a national culture and authoritative state that support control, oppression and violence against women.

Domestic Violence in Iran

It's the same patriarchy that exists, culturally and legally, across the whole Middle East. You have tried to disassociate the two, and by this post are proven to have utterly failed. There is no disconnect between a culture and a law.

The conversation here is either lost in translation or purposely being ignored. Either way it's up to you how you want to interpret this...

This topic has been discussed to a great detail and I have already explained several times to you and the rest of the gang to provide prove me that Iranians in Canada are not assimilating with the culture and you keep searching the internet to validate your point on the basis that because Iranian government is adhering to certain strict codes on their citizens inside Iran! All I hear is baseless commentaries that Iranians in US or Canada cannot assimilate to the society of western culture....Once again what evidence can you present here that shows Iranians in Canada or US are not assimilating with the society they live in?  

What is even more ridiculous is some members who could not previously differentiate between Iranians and Arabs are now all of a sudden a keyboard expert on Iranians as if the colour of skin is the barometer for assimilation into Canadian culture and society. I have never come across such bigoted/ silly observations across any forum. It just proves lack of knowledge and bigotry to the unknown levels...

Until you can answer that question I am not gonna even bother reading your posts.     

 

Edited March 20, 2017 by kactus

[Cum Laude]

1 hour ago, kactus said:

Logged in and have no idea what you are on about....

I have given you a comprehensive answer here:

That would be a good starting point.

Ahhhh....I thought you may be the one person here with the capability to understand the situation. I was wrong. G'day.

[kactus]

42 minutes ago, Cum Laude said:

Ahhhh....I thought you may be the one person here with the capability to understand the situation. I was wrong. G'day.

.....Pleasure is all yours from down under mate!....The irony!

 

Edited March 20, 2017 by kactus

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, kactus said:

The conversation here is either lost in translation or purposely being ignored. Either way it's up to you how you want to interpret this...

This topic has been discussed to a great detail and I have already explained several times to you and the rest of the gang to provide prove me that Iranians in Canada are not assimilating with the culture and you keep searching the internet to validate your point on the basis that because Iranian government is adhering to certain strict codes on their citizens inside Iran! All I hear is baseless commentaries that Iranians in US or Canada cannot assimilate to the society of western culture....Once again what evidence can you present here that shows Iranians in Canada or US are not assimilating with the society they live in?  

What is even more ridiculous is some members who could not previously differentiate between Iranians and Arabs are now all of a sudden a keyboard expert on Iranians as if the colour of skin is the barometer for assimilation into Canadian culture and society. I have never come across such bigoted/ silly observations across any forum. It just proves lack of knowledge and bigotry to the unknown levels...

Until you can answer that question I am not gonna even bother reading your posts.     

 

 

No one is arguing from the basis of skin colour. One should learn to read carefully, think, and discuss without getting emotional.

[blackbird]

On 2017-03-12 at 0:39 PM, ?Impact said:

What about the many citizens of Iran in Canada, Europe and elsewhere that travel frequently to the US? There are many people in technical and management positions across many industries that travel to the US for training, sales activities, conferences, joint projects, etc. This travel ban is dumb a$$ stupid. 

Hasn't the travel ban 2.0 made a lot of exceptions?

[kactus]

5 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

 

No one is arguing from the basis of skin colour. One should learn to read carefully, think, and discuss without getting emotional.

Since I assume that one has already read carefully previous posts on this topic can you discuss assimilation question put forth earlier? 

Edited March 20, 2017 by kactus

[Cum Laude]

21 hours ago, kactus said:

.....Pleasure is all yours from down under mate!....The irony!

 

The irony of a paradox is perplexing. 

[kactus]

1 hour ago, Cum Laude said:

The irony of a paradox is perplexing. 

More like the capacity to comprehend....

Edited March 21, 2017 by kactus

[OftenWrong]

17 hours ago, kactus said:

Since I assume that one has already read carefully previous posts on this topic can you discuss assimilation question put forth earlier? 

It already has been discussed. The travel ban is put in place for reasons you seem to ignore. It has not to do with the behaviour of individuals who are already living here. It has to do with the quality of security information coming from the countries in question. Thanks to the uncooperative government of Iran, and lack of proper security infrastructure in primitive tribal nations where there practically is no government to rely on, those people should not be allowed. If Iranians do not like it, they need to fix their problems back home. It is that simple... do you have any more questions?

[OftenWrong]

On 2017-03-19 at 8:13 PM, kactus said:

The conversation here is either lost in translation or purposely being ignored. Either way it's up to you how you want to interpret this...

This topic has been discussed to a great detail and I have already explained several times to you and the rest of the gang to provide prove me that Iranians in Canada are not assimilating with the culture and you keep searching the internet to validate your point on the basis that because Iranian government is adhering to certain strict codes on their citizens inside Iran! All I hear is baseless commentaries that Iranians in US or Canada cannot assimilate to the society of western culture....Once again what evidence can you present here that shows Iranians in Canada or US are not assimilating with the society they live in? 

The discussion wandered to cover many things, including the stark cultural differences between Canada and Iran. That is why those comments came up. But to answer the basic question on the US travel ban has nothing to do with those things. Other countries who have similar culture as Iran are not being banned. There is no reason to ban countries who are cooperating with/ good allies of the United States. Iran is not.

Is it reasonable to insist that people be allowed to enter a country when their security information is not up to acceptable standards? Of course not. Besides that, no one is entitled to enter a foreign country, by any means. When it comes to providing security information, one must either put up or shut up.

Personally any Iranians I have met were quite normal people. A little touchy, perhaps too easily offended.
Are we... Persian?

[kactus]

12 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

It already has been discussed. The travel ban is put in place for reasons you seem to ignore. It has not to do with the behaviour of individuals who are already living here. It has to do with the quality of security information coming from the countries in question. Thanks to the uncooperative government of Iran, and lack of proper security infrastructure in primitive tribal nations where there practically is no government to rely on, those people should not be allowed. If Iranians do not like it, they need to fix their problems back home. It is that simple... do you have any more questions?

You keep changing goal posts...Your argument was that they cannot assimilate hence the ban. Now blaming it on security issues. That is totally different argument...

Now to the point...Exactly how is refusing a PHD medical student a security issue to US? Many travel on student visas. The first travel ban even did not allow green card holders. This has now been revised and quite rightly so. Your assumptions on lack of security or lack of cooperation on the part Iranian government is subjective based on your judgement of what the US deems as a security issue at its borders. Reality is such a ban would only punish genuine people from travelling to US or who may be running away from prosecution in their country and nothing to do with them being a threat to the security IMHO in which case one would question the integrity of the travel ban and who it is aimed at....