Muslim antisemitism the cause of the Israeli conflict

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I hid some trolling posts.  Please PM me if you have questions, don't discuss moderation in the thread itself.

 

If only you could replace them with something, a frowny face perhaps, instead of just hiding them completely, I wouldn't question my memory as much. 

Edited December 29, 2016 by bcsapper

[Argus]

18 hours ago, dre said:

Christians and Atheists have killed more people than Muslims or Jews could ever hope too. Hundreds of millions

Let's see a cite for that.

Meanwhile...

Muslim historian Firishta [full name Muhammad Qasim Hindu Shah, born in 1560 and died in 1620], the author of the Tarikh-i Firishta and the Gulshan-i Ibrahim, was the first to give an idea to the medieval bloodbath that was India during Muslim rule, when he declared that over 400 million Hindus got slaughtered during the Muslim invasion and occupation of India. Survivors got enslaved and castrated. India’s population is said to have been around 600 million at the time of Muslim invasion. By the mid 1500’s the Hindu population was 200 million.

https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2015/08/31/islamic-invasion-of-india-the-greatest-genocide-in-history/

Edited December 29, 2016 by Argus

[Argus]

17 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I don't know what the cause of the conflict is, nor do I really care at the end of the day.  But I do know that what perpetuates the conflict and makes peace impossible is blame, hatred, and most especially the inability for each side to take a moment to empathize with the opposing side(s)...which leads to things like blame and hatred.  Each side needs to take time to swallow their pride and see how their actions perpetuate the conflict. 

Except as I have already demonstrated in the OP much of the acrimony is due to the hatred Muslims have for Jews. I don't see that ending any time soon.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Argus

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

Muslim historian Firishta [full name Muhammad Qasim Hindu Shah, born in 1560 and died in 1620], the author of the Tarikh-i Firishta and the Gulshan-i Ibrahim, was the first to give an idea to the medieval bloodbath that was India during Muslim rule, when he declared that over 400 million Hindus got slaughtered during the Muslim invasion and occupation of India. Survivors got enslaved and castrated. India’s population is said to have been around 600 million at the time of Muslim invasion. By the mid 1500’s the Hindu population was 200 million.

https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2015/08/31/islamic-invasion-of-india-the-greatest-genocide-in-history/

Hindu Kush doesn't translate to Muslims love Hindus.

Quite the opposite...

 

[Argus]

14 hours ago, marcus said:

Such a brilliant observation of the Israeli conflict.

It has nothing to do with the occupation and the land theft.

Nope. The western powers created any number of middle east countries, and none of the Muslims have a problem with them. Their issue is that one little space ruled by Jews. Jews aren't allowed to rule land in the Dar al-Islam Only Muslims may rule there.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Argus

[Argus]

12 hours ago, Bryan said:

As usual, you guess wrong. The Crusades were largely defensive wars. What I'm talking about predates that by many centuries.

Well, there were certainly people living there. But they weren't Muslims.

[Argus]

2 hours ago, dre said:

Arabs and Jews flat out don't like each other. I don't think either one is more racist towards the other. There's a large segment within each group that more or less consider each other sub-human.

Luckily I live in Canada and all those dirt farmers can go fvck themselves.

And yet, you are resolutely opposed to even trying to screening those 'dirt farmers' who apply to come to Canada live next to you

Edited December 29, 2016 by Argus

[DogOnPorch]

6 minutes ago, Argus said:

Well, there were certainly people living there. But they weren't Muslims.

Alexander the Great literally finished-off the Philistines whom the alt-history crowd claims ARE the current Arab population.

 

Alexander, ushering-in an extended era of Hellenization followed by Latinization in the Levant...no Islam or Arabs anywhere to be seen other than the occasional merchant out of Arabia.

 

Edited December 29, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

Except as I have already demonstrated in the OP much of the acrimony is due to the hatred Muslims have for Jews. I don't see that ending any time soon.

You hate Muslims.  I don't see that ending any time soon.  The irony, the hypocrisy.  Look at how you feel about Muslims, the resentment and anger you have towards an entire group, and now you understand how hatred begins.  Take millions of people like Argus, call them Muslims and Jews, multiply the hate by millennia, and now you have yourself a conflict.  People like you who think as you do are the reason this stuff happens.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Moonlight Graham
Edited to attack Argus' ideas rather than him personally.

[DogOnPorch]

Yeah...so take your Islam like a good boy.

[kactus]

3 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

You hate Muslims.  I don't see that ending any time soon.  The irony, the hypocrisy.  Look at how you feel about Muslims, the resentment and anger you have towards an entire group, and now you understand how hatred begins.  Take millions of people like Argus, call them Muslims and Jews, multiply the hate by millennia, and now you have yourself a conflict.  People like you are the reason this stuff happens.

Very true...Thishas been my point of contention here as always.

[Rue]

You can go to the Koran and find many passages that are very specific and literal in their criticism of Jews and Judaism, i.e., :

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islamic_Antisemitism

The following text provides ample evidence of anti-Semitic content in Islam: Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism: From Sacred Texts to Solemn History, May 30, 2008, Ibn Warraq (foreword), Andrew G. Bostom, Editor.

Anti-Semitism is prevalent in expression throughout the Muslim sharia law states of the Middle East and in Malaysia, and other Muslim nations outside the Middle East and Islamic anti-Semitism is different in origin and characteristic to European or Christian anti-Semitism.

Clearly there is a link.

What is certain is that Sharia Law and Islam at this time, mainstream , do  not accept Jews as entitled to their own nation and laws independent of the Muslim state. That is at the pith and substance of Sharia law of Islam which states Jews can not own land, can not be independent citizens or landowners or in any way consider themselces legally equal to a Muslim. Until that is changed, the conflict will continue because that is what is at the root of what fuels Abas and the PA, Hamas, Hezbollah, etc., their Islamic belief that Israel must be part of a Muslim caliphate.

That said I can point out Muslims who do not use their religion to be anti-semites:

"Some Muslim clerics, such as Sheikh Prof. Abdul Hadi Palazzi, Director of the Cultural Institute of the Italian Islamic Community,^[1][2] and Imam Dr Muhammad Al-Hussaini^[3] believe that the return of the Jews to the Holy Land, and the establishment of Israel, are in accordance with teachings of Islam.^[4][5] Some Muslim supporters of Israel consider themselves Muslim Zionists.^[6][7][8] Notable Muslims who publicly support Zionism include ex-Muslim Nemat Sadat,^[9] former radical Islamist Ed Husain, Dr. Tawfik Hamid,^[10]Tashbih Sayyed, a Pakistani-American scholar, journalist, and author,^[11]and the Bangladeshi journalist Salah Choudhury. Additional Muslim people who voiced public support for Israel included figures such as Irshad Manji, Salim Mansur, Abdurrahman Wahid, Mithal al-Alusi, Kasim Hafeez, Abdullah Saad Al-Hadlaq, Zuhdi Jasser, Khaleel Mohammed, Nadiya Al-Noor, and Noor Dahri."

source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_supporters_of_Israel

Also please look at:

http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/analysis/a-growing-trend-brave-muslim-zionists/2016/08/15/

Now I can focus on the extremist Muslims, extremist Jews, extremist Christians, and in so doing find ample excuse to hate all 3.

However I also believe one day Muslims if they don't blow each other up and the world will evolve as Christians did before them.

The sad thing is if the POA, Hamas, etc., accepted the right of Israel to be a Jewish state and gave up the notion of destroying it, Israel could pull out of the West Bank and forge a meaningful alliance with these nations.

Ironically the alliance between Egypt and Israel today against Muslim extremist terrorism is what keeps the whole damn region from imploding in spite or Morsi, Erdogan and Obama and their failed attempt at a Muslim Brotherhood revolution.

The choosing of an Exxon oil CEO as Sec. of State signals a clear signal that the US is going to ally itself with Russia and the tension is going to be between the US and China over who runs the world economic markets including oil.

China controls oil in Sudan, Mozambique, Angola,  parts of Nigeria, Iraq, Iran, but its days of controlling world oil prices and keeping these nations locked into long term discounted details will be challenged.

Oil prices not anti Semitism are going to dictate the outcome of the Middle East and all its conflicts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited December 29, 2016 by Rue

[marcus]

20 minutes ago, Argus said:

Nope. The western powers created any number of middle east countries, and none of the Muslims have a problem with them. Their issue is that one little space ruled by Jews. Jews aren't allowed to rule land in the Dar al-Islam Only Muslims may rule there.

Ridiculous comment. Jews and Muslims have lived together for centuries and they have fought for centuries. Just like any other groups. 

The situation and conflict in Palestine has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with colonization and apartheid.

Any time you start moving foreigners onto a land and lock out the inhabitants from their own homes, then treat them like shit, it's only natural to create friction and a rebellion.

[Argus]

55 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

You hate Muslims.  I don't see that ending any time soon.  The irony, the hypocrisy.  Look at how you feel about Muslims, the resentment and anger you have towards an entire group, and now you understand how hatred begins.  Take millions of people like Argus, call them Muslims and Jews, multiply the hate by millennia, and now you have yourself a conflict.  People like you are the reason this stuff happens.

I don't hate Muslims. You're simply getting all emotional and crying and whining because someone is saying something about one of your 'protected groups' and you feel all anguished and defensive over it. You ascribe an emotion to my value judgement which does not exist except in your mind. I disapprove of Muslim society and I disapprove of Muslim governments and I disapprove of and feel a measure of contempt for their ridiculous cultural beliefs. But those are judgements based on logic and evidence.

You should consider incorporating logic and evidence into your own beliefs sometime.

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, DogOnPorch said:

Yeah...so take your Islam like a good boy.

I'm not a fan of Islam generally (or most any religion, though Islam is one of my least favorites), especially the really nasty/sexist/violent parts and sick interpretations.  I don't condone Muslims who incite hate or commit violence.  But I also don't make sweeping condemnations of an entire group of people.  There are moderate Muslims who don't believe in any of the crazy stuff, I have friends like that. I have a non-hijab wearing Muslim friend not long ago where we were both walking down the street and she saw a $20 bill on the ground and picked it up and then felt guilty about it for the next hour and questioned whether she should have left it in case the person came looking for it.  Bad Muslim get out of my country!

Go befriend some Muslims before you judge all 1.6 billion of them.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Moonlight Graham

[DogOnPorch]

2 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I'm not a fan of Islam generally (or most any religion, though Islam is one of my least favorites), especially the really nasty/sexist/violent parts and sick interpretations.  I don't condone Muslims who incite hate or commit violence.  But I also don't make sweeping condemnations of an entire group of people.  There are moderate Muslims who don't believe in any of the crazy stuff, I have friends like that. I have a non-hijab wearing Muslim friend not long ago where we were both walking down the street and she saw a $20 bill on the ground and picked it up and then felt guilty about it for the next hour and questioned whether she should have left it in case the person came looking for it.  Bad Muslim get out of my country!

Go befriend some Muslims before you judge all 1.6 billion of them.

This is known as 'The Acceptable Casualties' argument. Islam will KILL so few of us unbelievers that it shouldn't even be a worry. If you're one of the unfortunate victims of Islam's violent predispositions, well, you were just UNLUCKY.

[DogOnPorch]

1 hour ago, marcus said:

Ridiculous comment. Jews and Muslims have lived together for centuries and they have fought for centuries. Just like any other groups. 

The situation and conflict in Palestine has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with colonization and apartheid.

Any time you start moving foreigners onto a land and lock out the inhabitants from their own homes, then treat them like shit, it's only natural to create friction and a rebellion.

 

What is the Jizya?

[Bryan]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

Well, there were certainly people living there. But they weren't Muslims.

Yes, as I've already said multiple times in this thread, they predate Islam by many centuries.

[Bryan]

7 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Oh really? Arabs are from Arabia.

Present day Israel and Palestine were part of pre-islamic Arabia. Those people have been there for thousands of years.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I'm not a fan of Islam generally (or most any religion, though Islam is one of my least favorites), especially the really nasty/sexist/violent parts and sick interpretations.  I don't condone Muslims who incite hate or commit violence.  But I also don't make sweeping condemnations of an entire group of people.  There are moderate Muslims who don't believe in any of the crazy stuff

Sure, so? That's largely irrelevant to the information posted in the OP.

[H10]

I'm not sure it is all one sided.  I don't think jews are the issue.  This is a political issue between political leadership.

The Israeli government is fanning flames because they know they have the American support, the American government is using Israel to dominate the region of countries who don't want to do what America wants them to do.  The problem starts when Israel was imposed onto Palestine against the wishes of the entire region. It is a political issue, not a religious conflict.

[drummindiver]

19 hours ago, taxme said:

There will never be a cure for antisemitism as long as Israeli Zionism and AIPAC sticks around. It is not only the Arabs that suffer. The rest of the world has to suffer also because of Israel. For once I have to agree with what Obama and Kerry have said about the UN resolution against Israel. Israel does not want peace. It wants war and the worlds sympathy about how the persecuted chosen ones are treated by the rest of the world. There must be a good reason as to why so many countries despise Israel, uhmm?  

Yes,  must be their fault they've been persecuted for thousands of years. Pogroms and such. Oye vei meshugah

[herples]

It seem easy to break down a conflict into simply about Jews and Muslims but it ignores other factors such as the collapse of the Ottoman empire and the British control over parts of the Middle East.

[DogOnPorch]

4 hours ago, Bryan said:

Present day Israel and Palestine were part of pre-islamic Arabia. Those people have been there for thousands of years.

 

Uhhhh...Roman Empire. Diadochi...Greeks...Macedonians...NO they haven't. Stop making stuff-up. Arabs arrived in the 7th century AD.

 

Edited December 30, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[Rue]

7 hours ago, kactus said:

Very true...Thishas been my point of contention here as always.

Spare me.  Your words on this forum show a hatred for an entire group of people. 

 

7 hours ago, marcus said:

Ridiculous comment. Jews and Muslims have lived together for centuries and they have fought for centuries. Just like any other groups. 

The situation and conflict in Palestine has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with colonization and apartheid.

Any time you start moving foreigners onto a land and lock out the inhabitants from their own homes, then treat them like shit, it's only natural to create friction and a rebellion.

The conflict is deeply rooted in the Islamic religious belief that Jews can not own land, be citizens of a Jewish nation or be legally equal to Muslims in any way.

Apartheid? Colonization. Horse crap. Jews came to Israel to escape the very colonialists who propped the puppet Arab Regimes that tried to wipe the Kews of Israel out. Jews escaped Muslim apartheid called dhimmitude.

Islam is about dhimmitude, the institutionalized apartheid of non Muslims to this day.

The conflict is and has always been one of Muslims not being able to accept Jews as equals because of their Muslim beliefs.

One day it will change. 

Your denial and attempt to conceal it by calling Jews apartheidists and colonialists is a crock.

Jews were not and were never foreigners to the Middle East-that is simply your bigotry against Jews and your refusal to accept our native roots started in the Middle East long before Muslims existed. In your world Jews are not from the Middle East because if they were, your whole theory of them being invaders would go down the toilet.

Jews did not invade Israel. They were born there, have always lived there, and now their ancestors have come back.

Get over it. They are going nowhere and neither are Palestinians.

The sooner people like you and your refusal to accept Jews as equals living side  by side you dies out the better.

Palestinians one day, if they find a way to get rid of people like you claiming to speak for them, will find peace with Jews as equals side by side.

It will happen no matter how many people like you will die never accepting it as a possibility.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2016 by Rue