Muslim antisemitism the cause of the Israeli conflict

Rue · January 12, 2017

I made another thread explaining the direct co-relation between Islam and sharia law and the belief that Jews can NOT own land, or have equal legal rights to a Muslim and therefore can not have a state and this dates back to be beginnings of Islamic religion.

The anti-semitism we see today in the Palestinian Authority, Hamas, Hezbollah, is based on that but was also fused with European anti-semitism from Britain, France and Germany that added to it and intensified its violence towards Jews all over the world.

Take for examplke The Mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin Husseini who Marcus won't acknowledge. This is someone who lived in a stolen Jewish home as a guest of Adolph Hitler throughout WW2. He broadcast daily to the Middle East urging Arabs to wipe out Jews. He in fact insisted in numerous visits to Adolph Eichman that instead of shooting Jews in pits, to speed up the process they be gassed and he orchestrated and directed the use of gas to kill Jewish children in a school bus to show its effect. This is the man who lead the Palestinian Arabs and mentored Yasir Arafat. His legacy fromthe 1920s to the 1940s, as a rabid Jew-hater who mixed Islam with European anti-Semitism is what Arafat and Now Abbas of the PA, Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Quaeda, Isil-Daesh, the Muslim Brotherhood and Iran quote.

This Mufti used the Koran, Protocols of the Elders of Zion and propaganda written for him by Josef Goebbels to broadcast the venom that is broadcast daily to this day on Iranian and Arab television, radio, in its newspapers and on its web-sites. Nothing has changed.

After WW2 thousands of Nazis moved to Egypt, Iraq and Syria, ran their military, created Gestapo called the Mukbharat in these states, and created Cultural Communications Ministries to continue broadcasting this venom. When the Nazis started to die out, the KGB took over.

The scripts haven't even changed. They are the same today as they were during WW2 when Goebbels first wrote them.

This article shows how the jihadists of today in Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Quaeda, Isil-Daesh, the Iranian Government spew the same vile anti semitic hatred as did Eichman, the Mufti of Jerusalem and Rosenberg (no he was not a Jew that's a German name) the Nazi.

http://israelseen.com/2011/08/31/how-anti-semitism-prevents-peace/

The above discussed what Marcus will not.

Rue · January 12, 2017

In this article; http://www.timesofisrael.com/the-10-most-anti-semitic-countries/

the 10 most anti semitic countries are listed. This is not ideology that is simply anti Israel its anti Jewish. No differentiation is made in this hatred.

Its not just Jews having a country that the venom is directed at, but Jews for being Jews.

Kerry is a complete and utter asshole. He can talk all he wants about Israel being either Jewish or democratic and claiming as he does that the t wo can not be one in the same, as he does, but this demonstrates his anti semitism. Its a fundamental anti-semitism based on his opinion and that of Obama and the anti Zionists that a Jew who has his own state is not democratic.What a pile of crap. Has Kerry once said to Muslim countries they can't be democratic because of their lack of separation with Islam? Never once! So why the double standard? Has he ever accused England of not being democratic because its head of state is the head of the Anglican church and is both?

Kerry showed his true colours, he's the most basic kind of liberal anti semite. The one who poses as liberal, tolerant, open minded and in fact holds Jews to a different standard than any other people.

Its why even the Arab kingdoms of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, the UAE and Kuwait had nothing to do with him. In their case he said they were not democratic and yet in the next breath he advocated on behalf of Hezbollah and Hamas calling them and the Muslim Brotherhood legitimate peace partners.

He and Obama called Iran a responsible peace partner they could trust.

He and Obama showed their true colours. Give me an out and out bigot who hates Jews any day like Taxme. They don't hide what they are and what they stand for behind Liberal words pretending they care about equality and justice.

Moonlight Graham · January 12, 2017

On 2016-12-30 at 9:07 PM, dre said:

The Jews did not steal the land that is really Israel. It is as legal a state as any other country in the world. What they stole was the Golan heights, and large swaths of the West Bank and built settlements around strategic water resources so they could "make the desert bloom", and build a huge network of pipelines and pumping stations.

The land outside of the green-line is occupied territory. Its "stolen" at least until its returned.

Here's a map of Israel at different years: http://www.grainesdeculture.be/sites/grainesdeculture.be/site/IMG/png/shrinking-map-of-palestine.png

How did Jews go from controlling a very small portion of land in 1947 to over half of the land area in 1949? Were the Arabs super nice and abandoned their homes voluntarily and gave them to the Jews? No. They stole a lot of that land from Arabs who lived on and/or owned it. Some of those Arabs fled in 1948 because of the war, while others were ethnically cleaned out of the area by the militarized Zionists. Either way, the Israelis did not allow them to return to their homes after the 1948 war. By any definition, that's stealing, as well as ethnic cleansing. By what right does the UN have to force one person to give up their house and their personal property to another person or group? Israel has yet to pay reparations to the Arabs for whose material wealth & assets they stole. Reparations have often been seen as necessary in any peace deal, and in 2000 at Camp David, Bill Clinton spoke of a number up to $20 billion, though the actual value is almost certainly much higher.

Look at the UN partition plan map in 1947 vs the post-war borders of 1949. By what authority did Israel have to take all of that extra land? The fact that the UN "legally recognizes" the 1949 borders doesn't make it "not stealing". Israel's current existence relies on a 1300 year-old land claim, where Arabs conquered the area around 650 AD. "Arabs stole our land so we're going to steal it back".

Canada stole a lot of land from aboriginals either by gun point or through broken treaties. It would be the same if aboriginals overran Canadian cities and stole the land back but kept all the houses, cars, jewelry, etc for themselves too!

Edited January 12, 2017 by Moonlight Graham

Rue · January 12, 2017

On ‎2017‎-‎01‎-‎08 at 3:36 PM, marcus said:

Land laws + Citizenship + immigration laws are examples of how Muslims in Israel do not have every right in Israel a Jew does.

Then there are systematic discrimination when it comes to how funds are dispersed in Israel when it comes to infrastructure and education. If you're in a Muslim majority neighbourhood in Israel, as compared to a Jewish majority neighbourhood, you will not be treated the same when it comes to fund disbursement.

Beyond Jewish vs Muslim discrimination, there is also discrimination against black Jews.

Zionism and its ideology, where supremacy is practiced and encouraged is the root problem of all of this. Zionism is racism.

Its time when you make your statements you back them up.

1. Which land laws, citizenship laws and immigration laws are you referring to. State them and explain how they discriminate.

2. You claim systemic discrimination as to fund allocation. Where and by who.

3. You make a sweeping statement that there is discrimination against black Jews. Show the laws of Israel that discriminate against people's skin colour, name them.

4. Delineate, show the Zionist ideology in writing that says Jews are supreme and defined as a race.

In regards to one, you have made this claim many times and never provide a law or regulation.

In regards to two, you again throw out accusations with no examples.

In regards to 3 you make no differentiation between the Israel government and its laws and regulations and cultural conflict that arises internally between different Jewish peoples.

In regards to 4, you have repeatedly accused Zionist ideology of being racist and supremacist but when asked for proof never give any.

So might I suggest you apply the following words you told me to yourself:

"You continue to repeat the above misinformation. You are frequently corrected, but you keep coming back with it. I am beginning to think that you are not interested in being honest."

Until you cite an example of what you allege and proof how it discriminates you engage in the very thing you accuse me of.

Next don't tell me you are "beginning to think" I am not interested in being honest. There's no beginning and ironically the fact you sugest you were "beginning" to think shows you are in fact dishonest. You have from the get go in each and every post called me dishonest. You haven't begun, you merely repeat with the name calling.

As for honesty, when I cite laws, regulations and sources, you have said you won't read them because they are too long, written by Zionists or liars. You can't have it both ways.

The big difference between us is when I make an allegation I back it up, you don't.

You spout accusations with zero proof.

Until you back up your accusations with cited laws and examples of how those laws discriminate you have zero credibility.

Next in past posts I have discussed tensions between different Jewish ethnic groups. I have never denied that. I have openly discussed for example that Mitzrahi-Tsfardic-Arab Jews and European-Ashkenzai Jews, have major differences. Russian Askkenazi Jews can most certainly be discriminatory against Felashie and Tsfardic Jews.

Its a fact. Its not however something the government implements in its laws. Its no different then how Musloims are racist sob's and say Saudi Arabia and Oman and Iran and the UAE hire black Muslims from Africa, or Bangladeshis, Pakistanis, Sri Lankan Muslims, Fillippin, Malaysian and Indonesian Muslims and discriminate against them/

The difference though is this. In Israel employment laws prevent the very labour practices that go on in Sharia law nations.

The very racism you accuse Israel of exists on a personal level but not systemic level. There are as many non Ahkenazi Jews elected to the Knesset as Ashkenzai Jews.

They all go to the same hospitals and serve in the military the exact same way. So you deliberately mislead. If a Russian Jew has a cultural disdain for a Felashie Jew that is a cultural germ they bring from Russia. Its not intrinsic top Judaism and its not implemented by the government as you are well aware.

You are attempting to deflect away from the fact that Islam through Sharia law in fact is anti semitic and anti Christian and anti non Muslim.

You try deflect by suggesting Israel is. Israel has many issues and conflicts between Jews no different than Muslims hate each other but to say its part of Zionism is abso;lutely and utterly false and its why you can not cite a law or for that matter writing from a Zionist that refers to Jews as a race let alone a superior one. That is an absolute and utter falsehood you repeat and can't prove.

Finally I have discussed in past posts that in Arab Israeli towns the Arab Israelis won't pay municipal taxes. As a result because taxes are not collected, there is no money for certain services. That is a cultural phenomena. Arab Israelis have never paid taxes. They are against paying any taxes municipal, federal, etc. Its a cultural habit that dates back to when the Ottoman Empire unfairly taxed Arabs. In towns where Arabs pay taxes the infrastructure is better kept up. So again its a lie to say its done by the government deliberately.

Now is there discrimination municipally at the municipal level? There can be a huge difference between roads and water pipes and electricity in Arab and Jewish towns depending on who is in charge of such municipal expenses. In Arab towns with Arab Israeli Mayors who don't collect taxes they have no money to spend on such things.

That is something Israeli Arabs have caused to themselves and in Israel they openly admit this. Its not a secret. Its a cultural tradition. They prefer to have crap roads then pay taxes for them.

Now that is far different then on the West Bank.

On the West Bank Israel does not control PA controlled areas. It has no say on how they handle their money on infrastructure.

What the PA and Hamas have done is take foreign aid money and taxes they collect and rather than build roads, hospitals. homes, schools electric grids, water systems, have wasted the money either on building tunnels and buying weapons in the case of Hamas or in the case of PA stealing the money by the PA assembly members who put it in Swiss Bank accounts.

The PA is the most corrupt political group in the world. That is saying a lot. Israel has had its share of corupt politicians including the former Prime Minister but nothing even close to what Palestinians have had to suffer from. Arafat was a corrupt pig who bloated himself at the expense of his people and the corrupt Abbas is no different

You want to deflect from Muslim bigotry against its own people and Jews and try change the subject start another thread and for once back up your accusations.

Stop trying to change the topic on this thread.

Rue · January 12, 2017

Moonlight Graham you are not responding to the thread topic. If you want to start a thread about Israel "expansionism" etc. start one.

By the way the use of the selective maps? They have been debated on this forum ad nauseum.

The attempt to deflect from the thread topic to question Israel's borders or right to exist is not the thread topic.

Rue · January 12, 2017

Here is the topic Moonlight now you and Marcus won' t address:

http://archive.adl.org/israel/arabantisemitism_oped.html

The above article stated:

" It is hard enough to overcome the political and nationalistic problems that stand in the way of Palestinian-Israeli peace. The spreading anti-Semitic incitement -- blood libel charges, conspiracy theories, comparing Israel to Hitler -- will only embitter the peoples on both sides and make good faith peace negotiations an even more distant dream.

Moreover, whether or not this surge of anti-Semitic rhetoric is deeply rooted, it is clear that this kind of barrage, if continued over time, will poison the minds of many in the Arab world so that anti-Semitism will indeed become a way of life as never before. The prospects this development would hold for greater violence against Jews, not only in the Middle East but also around the world, are too terrible to contemplate. "

Rue · January 12, 2017

Here is another article directly on point:

http://www.thetower.org/article/the-anti-semitism-we-never-talk-about/

" And for Israelis, in particular, the fact that fantastical claims about their country run rampant around the world is especially damaging. You may say what you will about the decline of anti-Semitism after the Holocaust, but today Israelis remain the only sovereign people whose very existence continues to be a delicate question, the greatest target of enlightened venom in polite Western circles, and the only country the hatred of which crosses civilizational and economic and cultural and class lines. Anti-Semitism may have morphed and modernized, but it continues to menace.

...

..Israel is not now and never was the real source of trouble around the Middle East, but that to maintain such a belief today, in the face of so much evidence to the contrary, can only be ascribed to precisely the same form of political irrationality we began with—specifically the clinical need to find a single scary cause behind everything."

Rue · January 12, 2017

The first reaction by those who will not discuss anti Semitism in the Middle East is to blame Israel for existing, having settlements on the West Bank, for controlling the US and the world, etc.

Why?

What is it the moment someone tries to discuss anti Semitism in the Middle East and how it impacts on the ability of Muslims to see Jews as equals, its reversed to blame Jews all over the world for supporting Israel and for Israel existing and being the central and sole cause of Middle East problems.

How is it for example in any discussion on Muslim anti-Semitism, settlements on the West Bank are used as a justification for it?

You won't see that discussed on this thread by anti Israelis. In their minds they are only anti Israel not anti Jewish and if Muslim leaders and their religion I s full of hatred against Jews for being Jews, that won't be discussed and instead the deflection comes to only wanting to present discussions critical of Israel's right to exist and its settlements.

I again quote from the following article:

"Yemen is not because of Palestine. Syria is not because of Palestine. Libya is not because of Palestine. The Iranian revolution, the Iran-Iraq war, the rise of Al-Qaeda, the rise of Boko Haram, the rise of ISIS—none of these would have been even slightly dampened by the absence of conflict between the Jordan and the Mediterranean. Without taking anything away from the principle of Palestinian self-determination, any historian will tell you that the Palestinian national movement was a latecomer to the Middle Eastern bloodbath, not really a big thing until the early 1960s (yes, before the Occupation), when Arab governments saw in it an eager and explicit echo of the successful removal of the French from Algeria—a bloody conflict that had nothing to do with Palestine, but which made the profound error of assuming that the Jews were like the French, foreigners who could just “get the hell out of Palestine” when in fact they were making their ultimate historical stand, a Third Act completely different from the rest of their history. Viciousness and barbarism and the permanent preference of political pride over prosperity and peace—these are the hallmarks of the Middle East, and they do not stop being so just because we are sick of hearing about people dying or are looking for new ways to blame the Jew."

marcus · January 15, 2017

On 1/11/2017 at 6:34 PM, Rue said:

Lol what a pathetic way to deflect from this thread and change the topic.

You specifically requested that I back up my statement and I backed it up with information that has been shared before.

Now that you have faced the back-up you requested, you are calling it a deflection. The laws in Israel and the systematic unfair treatment of Palestinians is right there to be seen. Your denial of them will not change that.

Here are the discriminatory laws, in Israel.

The issue in Palestine has nothing to do with previous centuries. There is a beginning to what we`re seeing today and the beginning was when a handful of countries decided that it`s okay to transfer European Jews to Palestine from Europe and then to allow the locals to be forced out of their homes. This was the trigger.

This continuous hate can be stopped, however. But that`s only after the world comes together, as they are through BDS, and force Israel to stop the racist and discriminatory treatment of Palestinians both in the occupied territories and inside Israel.

Cum Laude · January 15, 2017

3 hours ago, marcus said:

You specifically requested that I back up my statement and I backed it up with information that has been shared before.

Now that you have faced the back-up you requested, you are calling it a deflection. The laws in Israel and the systematic unfair treatment of Palestinians is right there to be seen. Your denial of them will not change that.

Here are the discriminatory laws, in Israel.

The issue in Palestine has nothing to do with previous centuries. There is a beginning to what we`re seeing today and the beginning was when a handful of countries decided that it`s okay to transfer European Jews to Palestine from Europe and then to allow the locals to be forced out of their homes. This was the trigger.

This continuous hate can be stopped, however. But that`s only after the world comes together, as they are through BDS, and force Israel to stop the racist and discriminatory treatment of Palestinians both in the occupied territories and inside Israel.

Look at the situation from the point of view of the part of US intelligence, which serves the interests of Hillary, Soros and Kagan. Trump could simply purge them up.

And it is not even necessary to unleash some political repression or a witch hunt, all Trump needs to do is to investigate the participation of certain part of the US intelligence in support of ISIS and illegal arms shipments to the Jihadists.

There is mounting evidence that the attack on Ambassador Stevens in Benghazi was to prevent Sevens from becoming a whistleblower about illegal shipments of Libyan arms to ISIS.

Many employees of US intelligence are not just facing the prospect of losing jobs, but losing freedom or even their lives (High Treason is a Capital Offence)

In order to prevent this, they are ready to propagate any fake news and accuse Trump of anything, no matter how nonsensical those charges would look.

From their point of view – it’s a win-win move. If they can blame Trump, then it is good. And if they can not, then at least any attempt to clean up the security services, they immediately could start crying that Trump purges “real American patriots from the CIA” on Putin’s personal orders.

Argus · January 15, 2017

On 1/12/2017 at 2:28 AM, Moonlight Graham said:

Here's a map of Israel at different years: http://www.grainesdeculture.be/sites/grainesdeculture.be/site/IMG/png/shrinking-map-of-palestine.png

How did Jews go from controlling a very small portion of land in 1947 to over half of the land area in 1949? Were the Arabs super nice and abandoned their homes voluntarily and gave them to the Jews? No. They stole a lot of that land from Arabs who lived on and/or owned it. Some of those Arabs fled in 1948 because of the war, while others were ethnically cleaned out of the area by the militarized Zionists.

Nice way to put it! "Because of the war" as if it's like, you know, an act of nature that had nothing to do with the Arab world attacking Israel at all! Not their fault! Hey, the war just happened! And hmm, do you think maybe Israel needed more space for the hundreds of thousands of Jews who were ethnically cleansed from the surrounding Arab countries? I know you guys don't like to talk about that, of course, even though their numbers were actually greater than the Palestinians who left Israel. Israel took in every single one of them and gave them citizenship. Meanwhile, all the Arab states just kept the Palestinians in refugee camps so they could use them as pawns for generations.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Argus

marcus · January 15, 2017

8 hours ago, Argus said:

Meanwhile, all the Arab states just kept the Palestinians in refugee camps so they could use them as pawns for generations.

Example #3242 where you post some half truth and declare it as the truth.

The reason why the Palestinians do not take citizenship in these countries is because it could jeopardize their claim to the land that was stolen from them by the Zionists.

Part of this land is the 500+ villages that were destroyed by the IDF and Jewish terrorist groups. I know why you don't talk about that. It's because you have very little knowledge of Israel and Palestine.

Edited January 16, 2017 by marcus

Argus · January 18, 2017

On 1/15/2017 at 6:29 PM, marcus said:

Example #3242 where you post some half truth and declare it as the truth.

The reason why the Palestinians do not take citizenship in these countries is because it could jeopardize their claim to the land that was stolen from them by the Zionists.

They have no legal claim and you know it. Nor do they have any chance whatsoever of returning to Israel. And all the surrounding Arab nations know that and have known that for decades. Even if there was such a right it would only cover thirty thousand odd Palestinians who left Israel decades ago, not the some 5 million people the Palestinian leadership claims are their descendants.

marcus · January 20, 2017

On 1/17/2017 at 6:52 PM, Argus said:

They have no legal claim and you know it.

You keep digging and announcing your lack of knowledge on this issue.

They have a legal claim. I'm not going to continue being your teacher. Look it up on the internet.

30,000? Oi vey.

Argus · January 20, 2017

7 hours ago, marcus said:

You keep digging and announcing your lack of knowledge on this issue.

They have a legal claim. I'm not going to continue being your teacher. Look it up on the internet.

30,000? Oi vey.

In other words, you can't support it and won't try because you know they have no claim. And as I said, there is ZERO chance of them ever returning. So insisting they stay in 'refugee' camps even generations later is nothing more than brutal, heartless geopolitics by surrounding Arab dictators.

herples · January 21, 2017

On 1/17/2017 at 6:52 PM, Argus said:

They have no legal claim and you know it. Nor do they have any chance whatsoever of returning to Israel. And all the surrounding Arab nations know that and have known that for decades. Even if there was such a right it would only cover thirty thousand odd Palestinians who left Israel decades ago, not the some 5 million people the Palestinian leadership claims are their descendants.

Well the Palestinians technically do have a claim since they also inhabited the region.

SpankyMcFarland · January 21, 2017

So if I steal a racist's car, I am not a thief? The absurdity of this thread is transparent to anyone from a country that has been colonized. It's one of many jaded arguments colonizers use to justify their theft.

Argus · January 21, 2017

14 hours ago, herples said:

Well the Palestinians technically do have a claim since they also inhabited the region.

You abandon a property seventy years ago and that's that. It's a different country now. Very few of those who were actually living within the state of Israel are still alive anyway. The vast majority of Palestinians in refugee camps are their children and grandchildren who were born there and have never seen Israel.

Argus · January 21, 2017

13 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

So if I steal a racist's car, I am not a thief? The absurdity of this thread is transparent to anyone from a country that has been colonized. It's one of many jaded arguments colonizers use to justify their theft.

It's more like if you steal a racist's car is your grandson a thief.

eyeball · January 21, 2017

Actuality no, it's more like if you steal a grandfather's home you also disposses a grandchild, not to mention creating a world of trouble in the process.

DogOnPorch · January 21, 2017

Israelis didn't steal land. The Zionist Movement bought their land well before Israel came to be. The UN Partition was a compromise agreed to by the Zionists and rejected out-of-hand by the Nazi Mufti al-Husseini.

War followed started by the Arabs who then were defeated. The same goes for 1967. Defeated in six days...nice and quick.

Losers don't get do-overs anymore.

As for the subject matter: of course Muslim Jew hatred is behind the conflict.

herples · January 21, 2017

2 hours ago, Argus said:

You abandon a property seventy years ago and that's that. It's a different country now. Very few of those who were actually living within the state of Israel are still alive anyway. The vast majority of Palestinians in refugee camps are their children and grandchildren who were born there and have never seen Israel.

Nobody abandoned property it is not unusual for populations to leave during unrest then return when peace returns.

Edited January 21, 2017 by herples

SpankyMcFarland · January 22, 2017

4 hours ago, Argus said:

It's more like if you steal a racist's car is your grandson a thief.

So if you get a generation in, you keep the loot? Does that apply to all stolen goods? Anyway, no matter what one wants to call this process or whether God has privately gifted the real estate to one side or another, it's happening right now in the West Bank - no need to bother the grandparents. The possibility of a two state solution is disappearing in front of our eyes as Bibi protests his innocence. At least Naftali Bennett is honest enough to declare his intentions.

There is a larger issue of Islam's failure to modernise but that is peripheral to the land feud in Palestine. Needless to say, both sides are bigoted. In fact, ALL humans are racist and sectarian. We all prefer our own. Some hide this better than others but that's how it is. Many of my SA Indian relatives prefer the Afrikaner approach to race relations because you know where you stand with those people. The Anglophones were full of pious lies like their kin in Canada.

DogOnPorch · January 22, 2017

Again...stolen land = lie.

SpankyMcFarland · January 22, 2017

BTW I am aware of the absurdity of a North American resident like myself lecturing anybody else on this topic. At least the Jewish People do have an ancient claim to the land of Israel which is more than can be said for my lot here. The Beothuk of Newfoundland conveniently disappeared in various ways as the Europeans encroached on the island. Were I a surviving member of that tribe, I would feel perfectly entitled to regard the foreigners with some lack of affection.