Sweden says cold war is back, starts conscription

[-1=e^ipi]

11 minutes ago, Wilber said:

Wasn't aware Russia was our ally or a member of NATO and NORAD.

I never claimed they were.

[Wilber]

9 hours ago, -1=e^ipi said:

I never claimed they were.

Well perhaps the US has valid reasons be where they are in our territory and are there with our approval. We share training and testing areas with our NATO allies.  Suffield Alberta. Shilo Manitoba, Goose Bay Labrador, Nanoose Bay Vancouver Island, just to name a few.

[cannuck]

We need a strong military for a number of reasons.   One would be aid to civil power.  Another would be to meet our NATO and UN commitments.  But, most of all, we need to bolster our flagging reserves - especially the Rangers - to establish our unquestioned presence in the Arctic.   Russia is already planning to drill in Canadian territory for oil, and I can tell you that Putin doesn't exactly let environmental issues stand in his way of raking in Billion$$ from his petro empire.  AND, I don't think he would be troubled by little things such a borders, either.

Edited December 30, 2016 by cannuck

[eyeball]

13 hours ago, cannuck said:

Russia is already planning to drill in Canadian territory for oil

Cite?

[EuroKrym]

REFERENDUM IN UKRAINE: A RETURN NUCLEAR STATUS! 

 In postwar history, annexation of a part of a sovereign 
 country's territory to aggressor state has no precedent. 

 USA TRUMP CREATED NEW EURO ARMY an INDEPENDENT FINANCIAL SYSTEM!

  http://eurokrym.ho.ua/05pr/fimb.html 

Russia's aggression against Ukraine has led to RF international isolation, 
including NATO's suspension of all practical cooperation with Russia. 

http://eurokrym.ho.ua/06al/

Annexing a neighboring country’s territory by force, Putin overturned in a 
single stroke assumptions on which post-Cold War European order has rested. 

 

 [email protected] 

 

[-TSS-]

Conscription is no longer usable method of defence policy. Modern warfare is not based on how much cannon-fodder a country can afford to sacrifice.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, -TSS- said:

Conscription is no longer usable method of defence policy. Modern warfare is not based on how much cannon-fodder a country can afford to sacrifice.

The Russians will be interested in that opinion, I'm sure.

[Wilber]

5 hours ago, -TSS- said:

Conscription is no longer usable method of defence policy. Modern warfare is not based on how much cannon-fodder a country can afford to sacrifice.

Sort of, it does give a country a pool of trained people it can draw on in a crisis rather than having to train them from scratch.. They still have to be provided with world class equipment or they will be cannon fodder.

[-TSS-]

Now it is official; Sweden will reintroduce conscription.

[Argus]

2 hours ago, -TSS- said:

Now it is official; Sweden will reintroduce conscription.

Yeah, all those people saying that the Russians are harmless and it's only evil western Capitalists causing trouble might pause to consider this - if they had functioning brain cells.

[hot enough]

On 12/19/2016 at 0:03 AM, Wilber said:

Wasn't aware Russia was our ally or a member of NATO and NORAD.

If they were there would have been a lot less support for the myriad war crimes of the US. Not that that would have stopped such a war mongering nation. 

[bush_cheney2004]

If the Cold War is back, Sweden can thank Justin Trudeau and Barack Obama.

[Guest]

Four thousand Swedish conscripts, probably in a union. I can't see the Russians doing much quaking. 

 

[-TSS-]

In many former Warsaw-pact countries people who went to university avoided conscription, which of course sent a message that if you have to go to the army it means it is because you are stupid.

Not all university-graduates avoided conscription as even the army needs smart people too but they were straight promoted as officers thugs avoiding the humiliating rookie-period.

[DogOnPorch]

4 minutes ago, -TSS- said:

In many former Warsaw-pact countries people who went to university avoided conscription, which of course sent a message that if you have to go to the army it means it is because you are stupid.

Not all university-graduates avoided conscription as even the army needs smart people too but they were straight promoted as officers thugs avoiding the humiliating rookie-period.

 

Joining the Red Army as a conscript seemed a tad like prison in most things I've seen and read.

[Argus]

12 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Four thousand Swedish conscripts, probably in a union. I can't see the Russians doing much quaking. 

As I understand it, after they serve, they are in the reserve. So that adds up year by year.

[dre]

On 12/16/2016 at 0:15 PM, Argus said:

For those who think the spat with the Russians is all a product of some nefarious US political operatives, Sweden has just ordered local municipalities to get the bunkers and sirens ready (some of which have been closed or sold), is moving troops to its borders, and getting ready to restart conscription because of Russia's belligerent actions in the neighbourhood. Meanwhile, Canada continues to let its military deteriorate in quality and shrink in size.

The dramatic call came as Sweden returns to the Total Defence Strategy it maintained during the Cold War, reconstituting its old coastal anti-ship missile system, placing an armoured division on the exposed Baltic island of Gotland, and making plans to restart compulsory conscription as early as 2018.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/cold-war-redux-amid-anxiety-over-russia-sweden-orders-towns-to-open-bunkers-and-prep-for-possible-attack

 

Civilian leaders around the world today don't seem to understand geopolitics very well. There is a number of poor decisions made on all sides that have lead to renewing the adversarial relationship with Russia, and potentially starting another cold war.

I don't think Reagan would have dissolved the ABM treaty or allowed Nato to start courting former USSR states with large populations of ethnic Russians. And I don't think Yeltsin would have risked renewed hostilities by annexing territory outside Russia.

NATO action in the Baltic sea is a geo-political blunder, and on the other side Russia naval build up there is also a geo-political blunder that risks pushing Sweden closer to Nato.

The signal Sweden is sending now is also a geo-political blunder, and one that the Swedish Military itself is opposed to. Jan Björklund risks compromising the perception of Swedish neutrality which is vital to their safety, and the military and  Armed Forces Supreme Commander Sverker Göransson are worried that this idiot is going to get them into trouble.

There are no adults in the room on either side any more - just a bunch of saber rattling loud mouths. And its people in both the east and west that will suffer as a result.

Edited March 3, 2017 by dre

[eyeball]

17 hours ago, Argus said:

Yeah, all those people saying that the Russians are harmless and it's only evil western Capitalists causing trouble might pause to consider this - if they had functioning brain cells.

That's not what people are saying about Russia at all but who cares given all the trouble the evil western Capitalists are causing anyway?

[-TSS-]

Having a meaningful professional army like that of the UK requires a large enough population-base where to choose from the recruits. Military career is a very respected career choice in the UK and their army can reject those whom it sees unfit for the purpose. 

In smaller countries they dont have that luxury if they want their army to have any significance whatsoever.

I must tell you from my own experience in the Finnish army as a conscriptee over 20 years ago that the professional trainers there have to this day been easily the stupidest adult people I have come across. Only a half-brain chooses that career in Finland anyway.

[overthere]

On 12/19/2016 at 9:10 AM, Wilber said:

Well perhaps the US has valid reasons be where they are in our territory and are there with our approval. We share training and testing areas with our NATO allies.  Suffield Alberta. Shilo Manitoba, Goose Bay Labrador, Nanoose Bay Vancouver Island, just to name a few.

Both Sweden and Switzerland- neutral countries that some in Canada think they want to emulate- have military conscription.   But unless you are a partisan numbskull in Canada , 'neutral' does not mean unarmed or poorly prepared for war. Sweden spends much more per capita than Canada, Switzerland about the same- though the Swiss numbers do not include the very sizable reserve forces that are present, armed and well trained in Switzerland.  Both countries are also arms exporters, to the extent that Sweden and Switzerland are respectively the third and fith largest arms exporters in the world per capita

[Wilber]

7 minutes ago, overthere said:

Both Sweden and Switzerland- neutral countries that some in Canada think they want to emulate- have military conscription.   But unless you are a partisan numbskull in Canada , 'neutral' does not mean unarmed or poorly prepared for war. Sweden spends much more per capita than Canada, Switzerland about the same- though the Swiss numbers do not include the very sizable reserve forces that are present, armed and well trained in Switzerland.  Both countries are also arms exporters, to the extent that Sweden and Switzerland are respectively the third and fith largest arms exporters in the world per capita

Sure, being neutral means you have no alliances and have to take care of yourself.

[DogOnPorch]

2 minutes ago, Wilber said:

Sure, being neutral means you have no alliances and have to take care of yourself.

Or sucking-up to Germany so they don't invade outright.

[Wilber]

3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Or sucking-up to Germany so they don't invade outright.

Sweden and Switzerland were more useful to both sides as neutrals, than as conquered territories or allies. Holland, Belgium, Denmark and Norway weren't.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Wilber

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, Wilber said:

Sweden and Switzerland were more useful to both sides as neutrals, than as conquered territories or allies..

 

Please...both were allowed to exist in Europe during WW2 because they served the Third Reich.

[Wilber]

Just now, DogOnPorch said:

 

Please...both were allowed to exist in Europe during WW2 because they served the Third Reich.

They served the allies as well.