Sweden says cold war is back, starts conscription

[Argus]

For those who think the spat with the Russians is all a product of some nefarious US political operatives, Sweden has just ordered local municipalities to get the bunkers and sirens ready (some of which have been closed or sold), is moving troops to its borders, and getting ready to restart conscription because of Russia's belligerent actions in the neighbourhood. Meanwhile, Canada continues to let its military deteriorate in quality and shrink in size.

The dramatic call came as Sweden returns to the Total Defence Strategy it maintained during the Cold War, reconstituting its old coastal anti-ship missile system, placing an armoured division on the exposed Baltic island of Gotland, and making plans to restart compulsory conscription as early as 2018.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/cold-war-redux-amid-anxiety-over-russia-sweden-orders-towns-to-open-bunkers-and-prep-for-possible-attack

 

Edited December 16, 2016 by Argus

[eyeball]

What Canada should have been doing years ago to prevent this deteriorating state of affairs was to tell the US to clean up its act and stop behaving so belligerently itself around the world - instead of preventing a friend from driving drunk we've encouraged them.

We should have been thinking along Sweden's lines for the same reason - we're next door to a swaggering unstable asshole.

[bush_cheney2004]

6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

We should have been thinking along Sweden's lines for the same reason - we're next door to a swaggering unstable asshole.

 

Which makes sense because there was/is plenty of "asshole" right at home in Canada (Gulf War, Rwanda, Balkans, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Haiti, Libya, etc.).

Sweden needs to do what it has to for Sweden's national interests regardless of what NATO or United States policies may be for Russia.   The U.S. still registers all 18 year-old males for Selective Service (military draft). 

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Which makes sense because there was/is plenty of "asshole" right at home in Canada (Gulf War, Rwanda, Balkans, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Haiti, Libya, etc.). 

That's why I said should have i.e. past tense. It's too late now.

[Smallc]

Canada was actually one of the few countries that didn't see its military shrink in the last few years (in terms of person size).  Budget reductions are not limited to Canada.

http://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/pdf_2016_07/20160704_160704-pr2016-116.pdf

Edited December 17, 2016 by Smallc

[Argus]

13 hours ago, Smallc said:

Canada was actually one of the few countries that didn't see its military shrink in the last few years (in terms of person size).  Budget reductions are not limited to Canada.

http://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/pdf_2016_07/20160704_160704-pr2016-116.pdf

Perhaps, but we promised to pay two percent of GDP towards the military and we've dropped below one percent. The presumption has been that there were no threats, and even if there were the Americans would take care of it. Only the Russians and Chinese are both acting like we're back in the 1950s to the extent even Sweden is starting to get worried. Renewing conscription is a BIG deal, and not done lightly. And Trump is unpredictable and capricious and likely to tell us that since we're failing to pay our share he doesn't see why the US should protect us (I don't either).  Still, the Liberals have no plans to make any new military purchases, and most rumors say they will raid the military budget for further savings in the next few years.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Argus

[?Impact]

48 minutes ago, Argus said:

Still, the Liberals have no plans to make any new military purchases

There are many plans in place, I suggest you consult the defense acquisition guide for details. There is a new version that is due out in a couple of months that will really reflect the changes of recently completed defense policy review.

[Army Guy]

That is part of the problem, there are many plans in place, everybody got a plan.....but nobody has the time or effort to put the plan into motion......as for the Defense Acquisition guide.....WOW.....some of these projects are over 15 years old...and would have to start from scratch again to be viable....but at least we have a list....

And let not forget about the defense review.... can hardly wait for those results to be implemented....I wish you guys would stop pumping sunshine up peoples asses.....there is NO appetite for military spending....along with no shortage of willing citizens to serve this ungrateful nation.....everything will stay the same, no changes at all.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Army Guy

[-1=e^ipi]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

Perhaps, but we promised to pay two percent of GDP towards the military and we've dropped below one percent.

I say, leave NATO. And cut military spending by half or more. Waste of money.

 

 

With respect to the original topic, this unnecessary hostility with Russia is stupid. The cold war ended decades ago. Yet most of our politicians in power are dinosaurs that can't get over it. Russia is not communist. Russia shares a lot of the same objectives as us (peace, prosperity, dealing with Islamism, etc.) and the Russian people as well as the Russian government have indicated on many occasions that they want to become friends. Rather than make enemies with Russia, we should befriend them. Work together on dealing with ISIS, work together on Arctic issues, pursue a free trade agreement with Russia, etc. Far more cost effective and productive than unnecessary hostility with Russia.

 

Look at the insanity that this unnecessary hostility with Russia has brought. Harper / Obama / Cameron / Hollande wanted to wage a proxy war against Russia in Syria so they decided to arm the 'moderate rebels' like Al Nusra. And look at the result in Syria.

 

As for Crimea, the Crimean people had a referendum and decided to join Russia. Canada, along with other nations, should recognize and respect the right to self determination of the Crimean people.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, -1=e^ipi said:

I say, leave NATO. And cut military spending by half or more. Waste of money.

That would basically leave our territorial integrity at the mercy of anyone who wanted it, including the Russians.

 

1 hour ago, -1=e^ipi said:

With respect to the original topic, this unnecessary hostility with Russia is stupid. The cold war ended decades ago. Yet most of our politicians in power are dinosaurs that can't get over it. Russia is not communist. Russia shares a lot of the same objectives as us (peace, prosperity, dealing with Islamism, etc.) and the Russian people as well as the Russian government have indicated on many occasions that they want to become friends.

Is this a troll post?

 

 

[eyeball]

The US will not stand for anyone invading Canada, Ever. The US is the only country in the world likely to do so.

[Michael Hardner]

12 minutes ago, eyeball said:

The US will not stand for anyone invading Canada, Ever. The US is the only country in the world likely to do so.

Why would they ?  They own all the assets.  It's like bombing/stealing your own stuff.

[eyeball]

Thanks for underscoring my first point.

[-1=e^ipi]

33 minutes ago, Argus said:

That would basically leave our territorial integrity at the mercy of anyone who wanted it, including the Russians.

Who's going to invade Canada? Really? The polar bears? Oh no, the horror!

 

There's basically zero overlap between arctic claims by both Canada and Russia if both follow UN law of the sea. Really most of Canada's conflict in territorial claims is with Denmark and that's primarily due to political intervention by Harper to claim the North Pole. The North Pole is rightfully the legitimate territory of the people of Greenland and the kingdom of Denmark and Canada's claim of it is absurd given that it's on the other side of Lomonosov Ridge.

 

If the USA invades? Well they can do that anyway unless we want to spend like 60%+ of our GDP on military, and if they invade and annex Canada, we get a monetary union and a first amendment, so we benefit.

 

Canada is one of the few countries that could get away with abolishing the military. The purpose of Canada's military is basically charity to other countries. Don't get me wrong, charity can be justified and helping South Korea or Taiwan, or fighting ISIS are good causes. I'm just being realistic.

 

33 minutes ago, Argus said:

Is this a troll post?

No, I'm dead serious.

[Argus]

49 minutes ago, -1=e^ipi said:

There's basically zero overlap between arctic claims by both Canada and Russia if both follow UN law of the sea.

And in what fantasy world do you think Russia would follow the UN law of the sea any more than China does?

49 minutes ago, -1=e^ipi said:

Canada is one of the few countries that could get away with abolishing the military.

Until the natives decide to blockade all the highways and close down the pipelines which supply you with heating oil.

[Wilber]

Check your history. Almost all of the Soviet Union consisted of conquests made by Imperial Russia, not the Communists.

[-1=e^ipi]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

And in what fantasy world do you think Russia would follow the UN law of the sea any more than China does?

The reality where Russia wants good relations as demonstrated by their recent offer to help with wildfires in Alberta.

 

With respect to claims of the Spratley and Parcel Islands, the Republic of China followed by the People's republic of China have the most legitimate claims to them.

If you are referring to the Senkaku Islands, then Japan has the most legitimate claim.

 

But in any case. It's important for Canada not to make absurd territorial claims because then it normalizes the absurd territorial claims of other countries. And those absurd territorial claims, specifically the ones by China, can lead to a world war.

 

1 hour ago, Argus said:

Until the natives decide to blockade all the highways and close down the pipelines which supply you with heating oil.

You have police for that.

[Wilber]

Putin doesn't want to be Lenin or Stalin, he wants to be another Peter the Great or Alexander I.

[Argus]

17 hours ago, -1=e^ipi said:

The reality where Russia wants good relations as demonstrated by their recent offer to help with wildfires in Alberta.

And, of course, their continual close visits to our borders with bombers and navy ships?

17 hours ago, -1=e^ipi said:

You have police for that.

Police are neither trained nor equipped to combat large groups of armed individuals.

[Rue]

On 12/16/2016 at 3:32 PM, eyeball said:

What Canada should have been doing years ago to prevent this deteriorating state of affairs was to tell the US to clean up its act and stop behaving so belligerently itself around the world - instead of preventing a friend from driving drunk we've encouraged them.

We should have been thinking along Sweden's lines for the same reason - we're next door to a swaggering unstable asshole.

That  so called  "belligerence"  stikes a balance to neutralized China and Russia so that you and I and every damned person in the West benefits from not being controlled by either.

 Oh wait let's pull those Canadian troops out of helping the Kurds. No need for belligerence.

Hey you know what lets send Canadian troops to another country in Africa but hey now let's make sure they aren't belligerent so that they can stand around like Romeo Dallaire and his forces were while thousands were chopped to death in front of their faces. Yep that's the ticket.

Speaking about swaggering unstable assholes next door  is it, why not send the swaggering Justin Trudeau on a world peace and love tour. The world photo op tour where everyone gets a chance to stand with Justin and smile. That's the ticket. Who needs belligerence when you got the peace and love machine, Justin Trudeau to swagger from photo op to photo op hugging away anything awful. 

Peace and love man.

 

Edited December 19, 2016 by Rue

[Rue]

22 hours ago, Wilber said:

Putin doesn't want to be Lenin or Stalin, he wants to be another Peter the Great or Alexander I.

Semantics to a Russian. They are all one in the same to Russians and if you don't get that speak to one.

[eyeball]

54 minutes ago, Rue said:

That  so called  "belligerence"  stikes a balance to neutralized China and Russia so that you and I and every damned person in the West benefits from not being controlled by either.

Three wrongs don't make a right any more than two do.

[Wilber]

2 hours ago, Rue said:

Semantics to a Russian. They are all one in the same to Russians and if you don't get that speak to one.

The same as far as Russian expansionism goes. Also, Russians seem to love autocrats, regardless of their political orientation. Democracy is not their shtick.

[-1=e^ipi]

12 hours ago, Argus said:

And, of course, their continual close visits to our borders with bombers and navy ships?

USA does the same. I guess we should be enemies with the USA as well.

[Wilber]

16 minutes ago, -1=e^ipi said:

USA does the same. I guess we should be enemies with the USA as well.

Wasn't aware Russia was our ally or a member of NATO and NORAD.