Immigration of religious fanatics

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, dialamah said:

Yes the quran says that.   But most Muslims choose the auranic verses that instruct people to be peaceful and tolerant.  I know, peaceful and tolerant Muslims do not fit your agenda, but they exist and are actually the mainstream.  The kind of rhetoric you push is what enables extremist behavior.  Doesn't matter its Islamists calling Westerners hostorical enemies, and citing Western news sources to support it or you making the same claims about Islam, its all the same hateful, demonizing rhetoric.

 

Sort of like 'almost pregnant'

So I should simply accept that a certain percentage of your favorite religion are going to try and kill me and my family on occasion?

 

Yeah...I'll pass on that.

[dialamah]

7 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

One death due to Islam's fascism is too many.

And thousands of Muslim deaths due to Western intervention is just too bad for them.

[drummindiver]

36 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

How old is conservative thinking ?

I'm sure it's much older than 622. Are you suggesting Islam is a result of conservatism? 

 

1 minute ago, Canadianjim said:

You could start with democratic elections.

The only thing undemocratic about them is the preson who won wasn't your choice.  You're looking for fascism.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, dialamah said:

And thousands of Muslim deaths due to Western intervention is just too bad for them.

Western intervention due to Muslim actions.

[Canadianjim]

Just now, drummindiver said:

I'm sure it's much older than 622. Are you suggesting Islam is a result of conservatism? 

 

The only thing undemocratic about them is the preson who won wasn't your choice.  You're looking for fascism.

You strayed from the framer's intention of the EC and now you subverted your representative democracy.

[dialamah]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

Sort of like 'almost pregnant'

So I should simply accept that a certain percentage of your favorite religion are going to try and kill me and my family on occasion?

 

Yeah...I'll pass on that.

Since my family is at about 1000 times more risk than yours, forgive me if I laugh at this hyperbole.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, dialamah said:

Since my family is at about 1000 times more risk than yours, forgive me if I laugh at this hyperbole.

 

Again: I was a 'victim' of terror already.

How many times have you been blown-up?

[GostHacked]

3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Again: I was a 'victim' of terror already.

How many times have you been blown-up?

None. I don't worry about it. I have a better chance of getting killed on my commute to and from work. I focus on the more immediate threats.

[drummindiver]

6 minutes ago, Canadianjim said:

You strayed from the framer's intention of the EC and now you subverted your representative democracy.

So I'll put you down as fascist?

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, GostHacked said:

None. I don't worry about it. I have a better chance of getting killed on my commute to and from work. I focus on the more immediate threats.

 

One doesn't 'focus' on a terror attack. It just happens...then you're on the ground and it's raining paper.

[Canadianjim]

Just now, drummindiver said:

So I'll put you down as fascist?

Fascism is what Trump is . Got a dictionary?

fas·cism

ˈfaSHˌizəm/

noun

noun: fascism; noun: Fascism; plural noun: Fascisms

an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.

synonyms:        3    authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, despotism, autocracy; MoreNazism, rightism;
nationalism, xenophobia, racism, anti-Semitism;
jingoism, isolationism;
neofascism, neo-Nazism
"a film depicting the rise of fascism in the 1930s"
        4    
    

(in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practi

[dialamah]

Never been blown up.  I have been raped once and physically sexually assaulted more than once.  However, being able to differentiate between *individuals* and *entire groups* I have not made it my life's mission to prove all men are incipient rapists.  

My thinking goes like this: the men who raped me are rapists, any man could be a rapists, most men aren't, so I'm ok with men in my world.  Same with Muslims: some Muslims are violent extremists, anyone can be a violent extremist, most Muslims aren't violent extremists, so I'm ok with Muslims in my world.

 

[DogOnPorch]

Islam is all about rape. Be it women or the parent culture.

[Canadianjim]

Just now, drummindiver said:

,  facist is what you are. You are negating  the democratic process as it didn't fit your parameters. Trump was democratically elected.

You are the one against your founders not me.Your founders made congressional districts for a reason. They didn't let one party have all the seats in a state did they.?  Your country can have both democrat and republican congressmen in a state can't they? Were the founders wrong?

[dialamah]

Just now, drummindiver said:

Trump was democratically elected.

Somehow I don't think being elected nullifies being a facist.  

[drummindiver]

Just now, Canadianjim said:

You are the one against your founders not me.Your founders made congressional districts for a reason. They didn't let one party have all the seats in a state did they.?  Your country can have both democrat and republican congressmen in a state can't they? Were the founders wrong?

"your country". Where y'all writing from?

[Canadianjim]

Just now, drummindiver said:

"your country". Where y'all writing from?

Canada now answer the question./

[drummindiver]

Just now, dialamah said:

Somehow I don't think being elected nullifies being a facist.  

I'm not here to defend Trump, but the democratic process.

[kactus]

2 hours ago, drummindiver said:

If you are talking muslim immigration and Muslim extremism good chance they're talking muslims. 

That proves my point about the correlation since some people here think all terrorist activities are committed by moslem syrian refugees hence talking about immigration always ends up with dissing moslems...

Edited December 22, 2016 by kactus

[drummindiver]

11 minutes ago, kactus said:

That proves my point about the correlation since some people here think all terrorist activities are committed by moslem syrian refugees hence talking about immigration always ends up with dissing moslems...

What?

It proved if you are talking muslims you are talking mulims.

Any point to your non point?

Edited December 22, 2016 by drummindiver

[Argus]

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

Yes, cultural influences prevalent in the region regardless of religious affiliation, as well as the impact of Western activity in the region have both been discussed.   Argus disregards anything else in favor of "No, because Islam".   Poverty and ignorance as a factor in extremism has been discussed, and dismissed by Argus.    When it's pointed out that even with the 'backward culture' he believes exists throughout Muslim-majority countries, that virtually every Muslim who comes to Canada is peaceful and law-abiding, he doesn't care.  There is no room for any other cause in Argus' mind; it's Islam, period.   So, sorry, Argus is not after discussion or civil discourse, he's all about demonizing Muslims. 

First of all, virtually everything you've said is a straight out lie, which is unsurprising since honesty is never much of a factor in either your beliefs or your postings. Second, this topic is not merely about Muslims. I have already stated that anyone of any religion which has extremist cultural beliefs ought to be screened out, and why. No one has chosen to address that. As for the 'backward culture I believe exists in Muslim countries' there is no question in the mind of any even halfway honest person with even a shred of integrity or intelligence that the cultures of Muslim countries are socially backward compared to Canada. In addition, of course, you haven't the slightest, faintest idea of how many Muslims who come to Canada are peaceful and law abiding since we don't keep statistics. As for civil discourse, that is clearly well beyond your intellectual capabilities. 

[Rue]

53 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Never been blown up.  I have been raped once and physically sexually assaulted more than once.  However, being able to differentiate between *individuals* and *entire groups* I have not made it my life's mission to prove all men are incipient rapists.  

My thinking goes like this: the men who raped me are rapists, any man could be a rapists, most men aren't, so I'm ok with men in my world.  Same with Muslims: some Muslims are violent extremists, anyone can be a violent extremist, most Muslims aren't violent extremists, so I'm ok with Muslims in my world.

 

I am very sorry to hear that for you and I myself I have never doubted your consistent approach to not stereotyping an entire group for the bad behaviour of a minority within it. I also suspect although I do not speak for Dog he is not as extremist against innocent Muslims as his words may otherwise appear to say but I won't speak for either of you other than to say I too have witnessed some bad things to me and others and I would hope I can be like you, someone who transcends their pain. I want to leave it at that and to say, the issue on this thread is how do we screen ANYONE who is potentially dangerous in a fair manner. I mean surely none of us believe Muslims escaping from Muslim terrorists are to be lumped in the same category as them. Surely we can agree on that. Surely we can agree no one wishes the children we've seen in Alleppo killed the way they have?

I hate the pain and suffering of people appropriated for partisan arguments. We have to find ways to protect the vulnerable and innocent and the public from terorism, extremism, violence. The question is how do we go about balancing the basic freedoms we cherish in the West with counter-terorist/intelligence operations.

Its a problem all Western governments are now faced with. I don't want to hurt anyone innocent, Muslim Christian, whoever but how do we scren out or detect the bad apples so to speak? That's the question to focus on. Well in that regard we may have to do things we don't like in democratic societies such as storing dna, finger-prints, eye patterns. We may end up like in New York City where there's a surveillance camera on every street corner and where people are asked ot put tracking devices in cars, undergo far more physical searches when visiting any area of high population movement, etc.

I worry that each time we do one of these measures we lose an individual right to privacy that you cn never get back and these individual ri ghrs are eroding as terrorism and extremism spread.

I mean it may already be too late with the sheer volume of population movement across the world to be able to screen people properly. Maybe we are already involve din exercises tatamount to looking for a needle in a haystack.

What I do know is in Israel people have had to learn to live with many security limitations that are placed on everyone and yet people get up, they go to work they survive and they will be damned if terrorism stops them. We saw the British in WW2 refuse to give in to a kind of terrorist warfare of bombing London and then later the IRA. People have learned to live in conflict zones. I've met say Lebanese coming out of suburbs of Beirut who never knew what could happen next.  They to this day won't sit with their back to an entrance or window like many people who come from conflict zones. Such people fear people in uniformt hey stay away from crowds if they can help it. They don't like not being able to see an exit, a way out.

Sometimes its called ptsd or seige mentality but people from conflict zones or whpo have lived as civilians during wars like many of your relatives have or had it.

Its part of life. Its not good but its life. Its true women and we men forget this, basically have to always be vigilante for security issues. We men forget that. Well we have to learn from it. We have to learn to overcome fear and live with certain limitations now that will have to apply to all.

I am not comfortable at all let's say when I hear Trump make a blanket statement he's going to do away with sanctuary settlements. Who the hell knows what that means. He said a lot of things that sounded Hiltlerian Mussolini-Stalinesque during the campaign. Did he say it to get elected or did he mean it? I do not know. What I do know is we can't be stupid and think we will arrrest every Muslim in Canada and send them to internment camps like we did Japanese, Germans and Italians during WW2. I know some want that yes. I think most of us don't and just want to find a way to balance safety with individual rights and be realistic we ar egoingt o have to be more vigilant about certain things including screening measures of anyone coming to Canada and people in Canada associating with people who adviocate extremist views. 

That said, a true terrorist, a true extremist bent on killing or violence, will remain invisible. The last thing they will do is be visible and be noticed and so that requires sophisticated counter-intelligence measures that probably will never be discussed in public so as to give away what those tactics are.

[DogOnPorch]

Muslims have most of the Middle East and parts elsewhere to oppress women and toss homosexuals from roof tops. I don't want it happening here.

Edited December 22, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[Charles Anthony]

Folks, 

Please avoid thread drift. 

[Argus]

To remind people what the actual topic IS:

I think we can look around the world and see which countries work and which don't. The ones that work, in terms of both economic success and quality of life, nearly always have values which include tolerance and secularism. Maybe someone can think of one that doesn't, but I can't see it offhand.

Therefore, importing hundreds of thousands of people every year whose religious values are completely and violently incompatible with both secularism and tolerance is, in my opinion, culturally suicidal. These people are making up a growing percentage of the population, and thus the electorate, and there is little evidence polite Canada is shifting their views much on these basic subjects.