Immigration of religious fanatics

[drummindiver]

1 hour ago, Omni said:

Once again you tend to generalize. You think that there is just one Muslim world and it's the same throughout and that just indicates your lack of knowledge of that world. There certainly are areas where laws are oppressive and I would suggest to you that many of the people who leave those areas do so for that very reason, and are quite happy to start a new life under out laws. Don't freak out if they choose to go to a mosque. 

Even moderate muslim countriesare extreme by our standards.

Edited December 21, 2016 by drummindiver

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Canadianjim said:

I never made the claim he justified every action with his belief in God. Never for a second. The same way i don't believe every muslim acts because of God. I think abu graighb pics were more than enough motivation for some people regardless of God.

Well, you said this:

Quote

Hitler  didn't kill in the name of God? "and so I believe to-day that my conduct is in  accordance with the will of the  almighty Creator in standing guard against the Jew I am defending the handiwork of the Lord." Mein Kampf 

I assume when you say

Quote

i don't believe every muslim acts because of God

you are talking about terrorist acts.  No, I don't think every Muslim does either.  Enough do.  And then there are the Muslims who think that Apostasy and Blasphemy should be punishable under the law.  Bad enough.  The death penalty in many cases.  Much worse.  There are Muslim countries where homosexuality is punishable under the law.  Pretty bad.  (There are Christian countries where homosexuality is punishable under the law, too.  Equally bad)  I don't know how many of them have the death penalty for it.  It's on here somewhere.  I don't think every Muslim is in favour of all that, either.  Just that those who are, are primitive barbaric bastards.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Canadianjim said:

 I think abu graighb pics were more than enough motivation for some people regardless of God.

Do you think Islamic terrorism is justification for Islamophobia, and the rise of the extreme right in Europe?

[Rue]

I am going to clarify a point only to steer this back to the topic.

To say Hitler did what he did based on his Christian religious beliefs is probably not the best way to describe his socio-pathic personality disorder and the kind of thoughts it would have produced but they certainly did have religious themes and he most certainly did use the Christian churches for his political purposes.

To be clear its always been a subject of debate whether he was Christian or atheist. His father was born a Catholic but anti-Catholic which set him on a path of never truly embracing Catholic doctrine. His mother was a practicing Catholic and had him Bapitsed as one but as he grew all you have to do is read his speeches to his his hatred or antipathy towards the Catholic Church. In fact Nazism deleted any connection between Judaism and Christianity, defined Hitler as the Messiah and didn't require anyone to believe in the divinity of Christ only that Hitler was the true saviour.  

Yes there were Nazis who remained as Lutherans and the Catholic Church under Pope Pius had Priests openly do the Nazi salute and have masses for Nazi soldiers but then you also have the well known persecution of Jehova's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists. certain Roman Catholics, Lutherans and other Christians who openly challenged those Christian Ministers or Priests and even Pope Pius for that matter from not openly delcaring himself against Mussolini and Hitler.

So its debateable. Hitler himself was not someone who believed in traditional Christian dogma at all. His beleifs were a mix of the science of the day, an Aryan theory of racial purity, and imported beliefs best described as belief in the paranormal.

To say Hitler was religious is really pushing it. Dogmatic yes but his kind of belief system although it would have religious tones and contents to it would be meglomaniac and narcissistic in orientation, i.e., the beliefs would come from him and he would be the pprophet not Jesus or God.

Hitler did not claim to be inspired by God. His top Nazi officials like Goebbels, Goering, Hess, openly rejected and ridiculed Christian beliefs

From a strategic political perspective many if not most Germans were Lutheran and so he did not alienate them and exploited the anti semitic passages of Martin Luther and other anti Jewish Christian clerics in Germany but to say he was Christian is pushing it. He actually did not recite the Bible or ever use it to reference his beliefs and justify them.

No getting back to this thread we are talking about religious extremists who use their religion to justify the belief in terrorism as a means to express and achiev e their political views and how we can fairly screen such people out.

I again repeat not all Muslims are terrorists and it would be unfair to say Muslims fleeing from Muslim terrorists should be put in the same category as Muslim terorists. That's illogical and its cruel. 

On the other hand how does one engage in security clearance to pick out bad from good in any group including Muslims coming in to Canada?

No one will discuss that issue in this thread. Its easy to call people racist or anti Muslim but it doesn't address the actual issue, just avoids it.

Just a day or so ago a Pakistani refugee appears to have been arrested as a suspect in a truck terror attack in Berlin. We now learn he was released and the suspect is now a Canadian citizen of Tunisian national origin and Muslim religious belief. Do we ignore that? Do we ignore when terrorists are Muslim and examine the cause and effect between their religion/culture of Islam and their terrorist beleifs. Do we just ignore that for fear of being called hateful of all Muslims.

I say nonsense to that. Muslim Canadians are no different then any other Canadian. What makes anyone think they want Muslims taking their religion and using it to kill people? What makes the liberal politically appropriate non Muslims on this forum condescend to Muslims and say they can't handle a discussion about Muslims who are terrorists needing to be screened out. The liberal apologists on this forum are the actual bigots against Muslims thinking they can't handle terrorists in their religious group being screened and caught or contained or whatever word we use for it.

What crap to let Muslim terrorists hide behind the shield of politically appropriate accusations of race or bigotry.

I don't give a damn what religion theu believe in, if they engage in terrorism or adhere to cultural values that directly conflict with Canadian ones, Ii want protection from them and so do Canadians, Muslim, Jewish, Christian, atheist, whatever.

Getting into side tangent discussions about what a religious fanatic or terrorist is, is kind of trite. We  all know especially Muslim Canadian who fled from Muslim terrorists.

Can non Muslims stop patronizing Muslims and all minorities taking this pretentious liberal tolerance posture that we minorities  can't handle people within our minority groups being called terrorists if they drive trucks into crowds of people or challenged  if they have beliefs that this country should change its laws to engage in plural marriages or openly advocate keeping women completely covered, etc. or go back in time to Biblical days.

We need to have a legitimate debate about what values are going to  be compatible in Canadian society and its unrealistic to think anybody can believe in anythingt hey want which is the b.s. song of politically correct liberals-the same politically correct liberals who will be quick to call me a bigot because I challenge terrorism and some terrorists are Muslim. I don't give a hoot about their skin tone or religion but if they use their religion to justify intolerance I got no tolerance for them.

No one should use a race or religious or culture card to avoid taking responsibility for being a violent jackass.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[drummindiver]

32 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Well, I never used the word retaliation myself so it's good to see that at some level you do understand that Islam is reacting to the abuse the west's inflicting on so any Muslims and not the other way around.

 

 

Good grief man...look at the words you're basing this on: It's unfortunate people feel the need to fly airliners into skyscrapers to combat that but I can certainly understand why they would.  In what universe does this bolded italicized underscored statement of mine have to do with you attributing the following to me?

So can Christians. Ergo?

I simply support the victims of abuse. Why don't you?

Good grief man I never attributed it to you. I said you sympathize.Please read what I write in the future.

Same with abuse. 

[Canadianjim]

Just now, bcsapper said:

Well, you said this:

I assume when you say

you are talking about terrorist acts.  No, I don't think every Muslim does either.  Enough do.  And then there are the Muslims who think that Apostasy and Blasphemy should be punishable under the law.  Bad enough.  The death penalty in many cases.  Much worse.  There are Muslim countries where homosexuality is punishable under the law.  Pretty bad.  (There are Christian countries where homosexuality is punishable under the law, too.  Equally bad)  I don't know how many of them have the death penalty for it.  It's on here somewhere.  I don't think every Muslim is in favour of all that, either.  Just that those who are, are primitive barbaric bastards.

Look some people believe in the bible. They justify support Israel based on their religious beliefs. Israelis are God's chosen people. Regardless of the  crimes Israel commits. To radical Christians. Israel can do NO wrong. Which on it's face is irrational. They shut down every political  conversation  with 2 words. "Jew hater' even when it's Jews criticizing., 

,Remember much of the  fundamental causes of this unrest has been caused by religion.

[kactus]

1 hour ago, drummindiver said:

Even moderate muslim countriesare extreme by our standards.

Ehemmm no! If you mean they turn backwards so that you can screw them won't happen. Don't get the knickers in the twist...

[kactus]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

Well, you said this:

I assume when you say

you are talking about terrorist acts.  No, I don't think every Muslim does either.  Enough do.  And then there are the Muslims who think that Apostasy and Blasphemy should be punishable under the law.  Bad enough.  The death penalty in many cases.  Much worse.  There are Muslim countries where homosexuality is punishable under the law.  Pretty bad.  (There are Christian countries where homosexuality is punishable under the law, too.  Equally bad)  I don't know how many of them have the death penalty for it.  It's on here somewhere.  I don't think every Muslim is in favour of all that, either.  Just that those who are, are primitive barbaric bastards.

So why just so much spotlight on moslems? If it's fanatics we are talking about we have our equal share here in the west (and i am not talking about moslems)

it seems like both groups don't give a shite about anything and feed in on each other...

Edited December 21, 2016 by kactus

[Guest]

Just now, kactus said:

O why just so much spotlight on moslems? If it's fanatics we are talking about we have our equal share here in the west (and i am not talking about moslems)

it seems like both groups don't give a shite about anything and feed in on each other...

I wouldn't say equal share.  When I bang on about Islam, it's not just truck drivers and art critics I'm talking about.  I'm talking about the hold the religion has on entire countries as well, such that it is used as the basis for the law.

[kactus]

Just now, bcsapper said:

I wouldn't say equal share.  When I bang on about Islam, it's not just truck drivers and art critics I'm talking about.  I'm talking about the hold the religion has on entire countries as well, such that it is used as the basis for the law.

Fair enough!

But there are people here even on this forum that vent their anger on all moslems like blame it on immigration and syrian refugees...

 

Moslems by some people are talked about as "creatures". Where is the humanity gone???

[Guest]

1 minute ago, kactus said:

Fair enough!

But there are people here even on this forum that vent their anger on all moslems like blame it on immigration and syrian refugees...

 

Moslems by some people are talked about as "creatures". Where is the humanity gone???

Hatred caused by anger is never easily understood.  I can not understand how anyone can get satisfaction from pulling a hijab off a woman on a bus in Toronto in response to what Muslims have done halfway around the world. 

 

[eyeball]

37 minutes ago, drummindiver said:

Good grief man I never attributed it to you. I said you sympathize.Please read what I write in the future. 

You very clearly said I support pedophilia.   In any case it's every bit as reprehensible of you to suggest that I 'merely' sympathize with pedophiles.

 

Quote

Same with abuse.

What does that mean exactly?

[kactus]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

Hatred caused by anger is never easily understood.  I can not understand how anyone can get satisfaction from pulling a hijab off a woman on a bus in Toronto in response to what Muslims have done halfway around the world. 

 

You could also argue that the analogy of what is going on in that part if the world (middle east) is the same as a car with bad engine. The burning oil is poluting the air we breath in and we don't know the root cause for it...Same way as when we go and screw around moslem countries and then wonder why they act like this. That hatred can be understood if one examines the root of the problem.

ISIS, ISIL, AlQaeda or whatever you want to call it didn't exist before in Middle East...

[eyeball]

14 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I wouldn't say equal share.  When I bang on about Islam, it's not just truck drivers and art critics I'm talking about.  I'm talking about the hold the religion has on entire countries as well, such that it is used as the basis for the law.

Countries like our allies in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan?  

[Guest]

Just now, kactus said:

You could also argue that the analogy of what is going on in that part if the world (middle east) is the same as a car with bad engine. The burning oil is poluting the air we breath in and we don't know the root cause for it...Same way as when we go and screw around moslem countries and then wonder why they act like this. That hatred can be understood if one examines the root of the problem.

ISIS, ISIL, AlQaeda or whatever you want to call it didn't exist before in Middle East...

The anger at certain events/actions can always be understood.  I was referring to the hatred caused by anger.  Why hurt someone who has nothing to do with those who made you angry?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Countries like our allies in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan?  

Yeah.  They aren't my choice of ally.

[kactus]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

Yeah.  They aren't my choice of ally.

But they are and quite conveniently so!

[kactus]

5 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

The anger at certain events/actions can always be understood.  I was referring to the hatred caused by anger.  Why hurt someone who has nothing to do with those who made you angry?

When injustice is done one tries not to rationalise the event/ anger that caused it in first place...

Edited December 21, 2016 by kactus

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, kactus said:

But they are and quite conveniently so!

No they are not. (my choice)  If you mean they are my country's ally, I would not call that convenient.  I would call that realpolitik and I have no say in the matter.

Edited December 21, 2016 by bcsapper

[Guest]

1 minute ago, kactus said:

When injustice is done one tries not to rationalise it...

I'm not saying it doesn't happen.  I'm saying I don't understand it.

[kactus]

Just now, bcsapper said:

I'm not saying it doesn't happen.  I'm saying I don't understand it.

Sure, it is difficult to understand it until it happens to you.

[eyeball]

 

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

No they are not. (my choice)  If you mean they are my county's ally, I would not call that convenient.  I would call that realpolitik and I have no say in the matter.

And yet you are still responsible for that matter.  

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

 

And yet you are still responsible for that matter.  

No I'm not.  I vote.  It doesn't matter.

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

No I'm not.  I vote.  It doesn't matter.

You don't believe voters in a democracy are responsible for the actions of their governments?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, kactus said:

Sure, it is difficult to understand it until it happens to you.

I don't know so much.  I doubt I would go and hurt someone who just looked the same as someone who had hurt me.  I'd probably try and hurt the one who did it.