Argus Posted December 21, 2016 Author Report Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Canadianjim said: Who is terrorizing? It wasn't muslims that invaded iraq on a lie was it? Abu graighb torture wasn't muslims was it? You need to read the definition of terrorism. The thing I found so amusing about the way liberals and the Muslim world were so aghast at Abu graighb was that that this prison was like a summer camp compared to most of the prisons in the Muslim world, particularly the Arab world. The same goes for Gitmo. I mean, would you rather be made to lay in a naked pyramid, or perhaps waterboarded, or would you like to have your fingernails pulled out with pliers, and your genitals burned and electrocuted? Yes, what was done in these places was wrong - by western standards. But they were quite quite mild by Muslim world standards. Edited December 21, 2016 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Canadianjim Posted December 21, 2016 Report Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) 18 minutes ago, bcsapper said: No, he didn't. And any claim that he did is disingenuous in the extreme. Read Mein Kampf. I have it in front of me. Mein kampf Kindle Location 1186-1189 Edited December 21, 2016 by Canadianjim Quote
Guest Posted December 21, 2016 Report Posted December 21, 2016 Just now, Canadianjim said: Read Mein Kampf. I have it in front of me. Mein Camp Kindle Location 1186-1189 It doesn't matter one bit. Like I said, utterly, deliberately, disingenuous. Quote
Omni Posted December 21, 2016 Report Posted December 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, Argus said: Because in the Muslim world you have a culture of religiously inspired intolerance backed up by laws and public violence towards anyone questioning it. Once again you tend to generalize. You think that there is just one Muslim world and it's the same throughout and that just indicates your lack of knowledge of that world. There certainly are areas where laws are oppressive and I would suggest to you that many of the people who leave those areas do so for that very reason, and are quite happy to start a new life under out laws. Don't freak out if they choose to go to a mosque. Quote
Canadianjim Posted December 21, 2016 Report Posted December 21, 2016 Just now, bcsapper said: It doesn't matter one bit. Like I said, utterly, deliberately, disingenuous. Radicals live in denial as do cults. Facts no matter how obvious and proven are easily dismissed if it contracts the beliefs of an extremist. Quote
Argus Posted December 21, 2016 Author Report Posted December 21, 2016 There was an interesting column in the Post today by John Robson on Canadian values, and all those leftists who insist we don't have one. He mentioned how Trudeau, the patron saint of shallow thought, once said there was no Canadian identity, even as he described it. The weird dance of the post-moderns was neatly captured by our prime minister’s declaration to an American publication that “There is no core identity, no mainstream in Canada. There are shared values — openness, respect, compassion, willingness to work hard, to be there for each other, to search for equality and justice. Those qualities are what make us the first post-national state.” He then went on to point out that it is Canadian values which prevent the sort of things which happen in places like Aleppo, and Pakistan, and Jordan. This isn't a peaceful, orderly country with respect and tolerance for any other reason than the type of people who live here and their values. But a larger and larger percentage of our population is becoming foreign born. So if we want to hang onto those values it behooves us to ensure, as best we can, that those we bring in share those values as much as possible. It is clear that these values are not merely not shared through the Muslim world, but disdained. Not only in the Muslim world, of course. There are many other types of religious fanatic out there. I earlier mentioned the Haradim in Israel, for example, as a type of person I would not want to import. Similarly there are some Sikhs and Hindus who have brutal, backward values, particularly towards women. That is why I believe potential immigrants from these areas ought to be screened. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted December 21, 2016 Author Report Posted December 21, 2016 1 minute ago, Canadianjim said: Radicals live in denial as do cults. Facts no matter how obvious and proven are easily dismissed if it contracts the beliefs of an extremist. You say this even as you continue to stubbornly ignore the facts of the statistics I posted earlier... Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Guest Posted December 21, 2016 Report Posted December 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, Canadianjim said: Radicals live in denial as do cults. Facts no matter how obvious and proven are easily dismissed if it contracts the beliefs of an extremist. I have no problem with the description of Hitler as an extremist. Which facts are you suggesting he dismissed? Quote
Argus Posted December 21, 2016 Author Report Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Omni said: Once again you tend to generalize. You think that there is just one Muslim world and it's the same throughout and that just indicates your lack of knowledge of that world. There certainly are areas where laws are oppressive and I would suggest to you that many of the people who leave those areas do so for that very reason, and are quite happy to start a new life under out laws. Don't freak out if they choose to go to a mosque. But I'm not talking about oppressive regimes or oppressive laws, but oppressive cultures and values, as expressed in the surveys I posted earlier about the massive intolerance for gays and Jews throughout the Muslim world. I know you're aware of this intolerance, but you simply refuse to admit it because you think that would be a poor debating tactic. Like most leftists you probably tell yourself that once they're over here they'll change, or at least their kids will change. Unfortunately, that's not likely to happen. Once over here they will learn not to publicly express those views around those in the broader community, perhaps. But since these values arise from their religious beliefs they will remain ingrained in their community, just as the ridiculous, backward social values of the Haradi have not changed. But the Haradi are small in number. The Muslim population, on the other hand, in no small part due to continuing immigration, is doubling in size every 7-10 years. That growing population will soon begin to exercise a growing influence on Canada's culture and laws as they vote in our elections. Edited December 21, 2016 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Omni Posted December 21, 2016 Report Posted December 21, 2016 1 minute ago, Argus said: But I'm not talking about oppressive regimes or oppressive laws, but oppressive cultures and values, as expressed in the surveys I posted earlier about the massive intolerance for gays and Jews throughout the Muslim world. I know you're aware of this intolerance, but you simply refuse to admit it because you think that would be a poor debating tactic. Like most leftists you probably tell yourself that once they're over here they'll change, or at least their kids will change. Unfortunately, that's not likely to happen. Once over here they will learn not to publicly express those views around those in the broader community, perhaps. But since these values arise from their religious beliefs they will remain ingrained in their community, just as the ridiculous, backward social values of the Haradi have not changed. Not only is it likely to happen, it is happening. Quote
Argus Posted December 21, 2016 Author Report Posted December 21, 2016 Just now, Omni said: Not only is it likely to happen, it is happening. Which is why a growing number of Muslim women in Canada, particularly younger ones born here, now wear the hijab and even the burqua where they didn't used to, right? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Canadianjim Posted December 21, 2016 Report Posted December 21, 2016 8 minutes ago, bcsapper said: I have no problem with the description of Hitler as an extremist. Which facts are you suggesting he dismissed? He stated Hitler didn't kill in the name of God. I proved he did. Quote
Omni Posted December 21, 2016 Report Posted December 21, 2016 Just now, Argus said: Which is why a growing number of Muslim women in Canada, particularly younger ones born here, now wear the hijab and even the burqua where they didn't used to, right? Actually they don't and those that do, do so because they choose to. Quote
Guest Posted December 21, 2016 Report Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Canadianjim said: He stated Hitler didn't kill in the name of God. I proved he did. No he didn't. (Hitler) No you didn't. You can argue that until you are blue in the face. It won't change anything. The Nazis didn't create the death camps because God told them to. Lebensraum wasn't so they could bring Christianity to the eastern heathen. Edited December 21, 2016 by bcsapper Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction - Blaise Pascal Quote
Canadianjim Posted December 21, 2016 Report Posted December 21, 2016 1 minute ago, bcsapper said: No he didn't. (Hitler) No you didn't. You can argue that until you are blue in the face. It won't change anything. The Nazis didn't create the death camps because God told them to. Lebensraum wasn't so they could bring Christianity to the eastern heathen. Hitler told you himself what his motivations were. He knew better than you why he did what he did. And he wrote it down for you to read. Personally i believe he was a nut job. But then I believe every extremist who kills in the name God is a nut job. Quote
Argus Posted December 21, 2016 Author Report Posted December 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, Omni said: Actually they don't and those that do, do so because they choose to. And if they choose to its' as an expression of their devotion to Islam - and not any sort of 'moderate Islam' with tolerance for gays, Jews and female equality either. Despite such controversy the practice of wearing head coverings is widespread and growing in Canada. More than half (53%) of Muslim women surveyed say they wear a hijab, chador or niqab in public, with this proportion up from 42 percent in 2006. Most wear the hijab (48%, up 10 points since 2006), with comparatively fewer wearing the chador (3%, unchanged) or niqab (3%, up 2). This practice has grown across the population, but most noticeably among women 18 to 34 where it is now most prevalent (comprising 60% of this group). http://www.environicsinstitute.org/uploads/institute-projects/survey of muslims in canada 2016 - final report.pdf Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted December 21, 2016 Author Report Posted December 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, Canadianjim said: But then I believe every extremist who kills in the name God is a nut job. And yet here you are angrily determined to avoid us doing anything to screen potential immigrants to Canada for religious extremism... Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Guest Posted December 21, 2016 Report Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Canadianjim said: Hitler told you himself what his motivations were. He knew better than you why he did what he did. And he wrote it down for you to read. Personally i believe he was a nut job. But then I believe every extremist who kills in the name God is a nut job. Yeah, but every extremist who kills for any reason whatsoever has not been the subject of intense historical analysis. Does it bother you so much that Muslims kill in the name of their God, and people like me are not loathe to say so, that you have to try and rewrite history to excuse them. Edited December 21, 2016 by bcsapper Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction - Blaise Pascal Quote
Canadianjim Posted December 21, 2016 Report Posted December 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, bcsapper said: Yeah, but every extremist who kills for any reason whatsoever has not been the subject of intense historical analysis. Does it bother you so much that Muslims kill in the name of their God, and people like me are not loathe to say so, that you have to try and rewrite history to excuse them. I thought i made myself Clear "But then I believe every extremist who kills in the name God is a nut job." Tell me what part of that statement didn't you understand. Be specific please. Quote
Omni Posted December 21, 2016 Report Posted December 21, 2016 10 minutes ago, Argus said: And if they choose to its' as an expression of their devotion to Islam - and not any sort of 'moderate Islam' with tolerance for gays, Jews and female equality either. Despite such controversy the practice of wearing head coverings is widespread and growing in Canada. More than half (53%) of Muslim women surveyed say they wear a hijab, chador or niqab in public, with this proportion up from 42 percent in 2006. Most wear the hijab (48%, up 10 points since 2006), with comparatively fewer wearing the chador (3%, unchanged) or niqab (3%, up 2). This practice has grown across the population, but most noticeably among women 18 to 34 where it is now most prevalent (comprising 60% of this group). http://www.environicsinstitute.org/uploads/institute-projects/survey of muslims in canada 2016 - final report.pdf And your fear of people choosing to wear a head scarf is? Quote
Argus Posted December 21, 2016 Author Report Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Omni said: And your fear of people choosing to wear a head scarf is? It is not about the head scarf. It is about what the head scarf says about those who wear it. It says I am a full and absolute believer in Islam as it is now being interpreted by the more conservative elements of Muslim society - and all that goes with it. That includes a value system of inequality between men and women and a strong intolerance towards those who vary from the moral and social customs and laws of Islam - like gays, for example, or women who don't dress modestly. If you embrace the head scarf - and please note that while those who wear the burqua are a small number that number has tripled in ten years - then you embrace Sharia and all that Sharia says. Edited December 21, 2016 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Guest Posted December 21, 2016 Report Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Canadianjim said: I thought i made myself Clear "But then I believe every extremist who kills in the name God is a nut job." Tell me what part of that statement didn't you understand. Be specific please. Comprehension does not equate to belief. Edit> Let me clarify that. You might well believe that every extremist who kills in the name God is a nut job. I don't believe you are happy with the notion that the vast majority of those nutjobs are currently doing so in the name of Allah. Edited December 21, 2016 by bcsapper Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction - Blaise Pascal Quote
Canadianjim Posted December 21, 2016 Report Posted December 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, bcsapper said: Comprehension does not equate to belief. Edit> Let me clarify that. You might well believe that every extremist who kills in the name God is a nut job. I don't believe you are happy with the notion that the vast majority of those nutjobs are currently doing in the name of Allah. So you acknowledge you were incorrect and my statement was clear? Quote
Guest Posted December 21, 2016 Report Posted December 21, 2016 Just now, Canadianjim said: So you acknowledge you were incorrect and my statement was clear? Not at all. Do you still insist Hitler was killing in the name of Jesus? Quote
Canadianjim Posted December 21, 2016 Report Posted December 21, 2016 1 minute ago, bcsapper said: Not at all. Do you still insist Hitler was killing in the name of Jesus? I insist that Hitler believed he was doing the Lord's work because he said so. He wrote it down clearly what his views were .That was HIS belief. Quote
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